[pabbi1]

Done correctly, the real advantage to DIY is the luxury of spending the SAME $$$ for FAR better parts. Of course, using teflon sockets for a Millett Max is bordering on insanity, and not everyone can risk spending $1800 in parts to build a Blue Hawaii.

But, sometimes, the reward actually exceeds the risk.

 

[d-cee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif After building my own DIY cMoy2 for ~$200 (that is, with all the best part in the market), I can honestly say it sounds as good as (if not better than) most of the commercial amp with in and below its price. I personal think that problem with certain DIY projects (especially the complicate one) is that you need a lot of time to fine tune both building skill and parts in order to maximize the performance, time that most people don't have (or rather spend else where ). isn't that a fact that a lots of commercial headphone amp builders started as DIYer?

what's a cMoy2?

 

[TzeYang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif After building my own DIY cMoy2 for ~$200 (that is, with all the best part in the market), I can honestly say it sounds as good as (if not better than) most of the commercial amp with in and below its price.

200USD?

How did you even manage that?

I can build a PPA v2 with that money already using decent parts.

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by d-cee /img/forum/go_quote.gif what's a cMoy2?

A little project from sgheadphones.net. Although it is called cMoy2, it isn't really related to the original cMoy IIRC, more of a convenient name choice. I posted a thread back in the DIY forum almost a year ago. More detail is on this thread (on SGheadphones.net). jasonhanjk, who is one of the major contributer on the project, is also a member here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TzeYang /img/forum/go_quote.gif 200USD? How did you even manage that? I can build a PPA v2 with that money already using decent parts.

I do my best

(ordering best parts in Australia isn't cheap BTW)

Just to give you a taste of the opamp (OP270EZ x2) I used:
OPA3214PA = AU$4.50 x2 = US$7.40
OP270EZ = AU$38.00 x2 = US$63.00
*price from Farnell AUS.

In fact, I love my first one so much, I built a second one (Total = ~$400

)

 

[headphonejunkie]

I think one advantage to DIY is that you can troubleshoot the circuit because you built it yourself. Of course, I am an electronic tech with twenty years experience behind me.It is something new and interesting to me and the equipment I pretty much had on hand anyway.You can also save a lot of money on an amp that is of high quality. Some of the amps out today just cost too much money. I can't afford to spend a thousand dollars on an amp.

 

[fordgtlover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif I do my best (ordering best parts in Australia isn't cheap BTW) Just to give you a taste of the opamp (OP270EZ x2) I used: OPA3214PA = AU$4.50 x2 = US$7.40 OP270EZ = AU$38.00 x2 = US$63.00 *price from Farnell AUS. In fact, I love my first one so much, I built a second one (Total = ~$400 )

You need to seriously consider buying directly from the US
Digikey has the OP270EZ for US$11.18 ea (AU$13.44 x2 = AU$26.88) plus US$20 freight (AU $24.05) total US$42.06 (AU$50.59).

RS and Farnell in Australian are a complete scam.

Sorry for the diversion.

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordgtlover /img/forum/go_quote.gif RS and Farnell in Australian are a complete scam.

Actually, quite true for everywhere outside U.S.

I was in a harry on making those amps back than, but good things that was the really $$$ part of the whole things. The rest of the parts were about the same everywhere else and didn't worth the shipping cost. Anyway, that was a fun project and I did enjoy a lot, so no regret here.

Back to the OT, I read on Dr. Meier website that a lots of his early amp was basically his DIY amp too. Very much the same thing happened to the guys on FireStone Audio. They too started as headphone amp DIYer, than turn into professional. GO DIY!!!

 

[oicdn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by d-cee /img/forum/go_quote.gif werd, I've toyed with DIY but just the amount of time I've spent just modding things has deterred me from DIY. primarily because for me the time isn't worth it. If i calculated the time it would take to build a DIY project and then consider how much my time is worth working, not even even adding the cost of parts and associated tooling it would probably work out cheaper for me just to buy the thing and spend my free time with friends/family. I'm also the sort of person that doesn't get any satisfaction going fishing and pulling in a big one. IMHO the best value is probably high quality DIYFO builders that way you get the best of both worlds $0.02

But if you place your time valued on anything....you could say X is worth it. Like if you don't feel like hangin out with your kids, if you were at work it'd be smarter to go to work.

For some, the learning experiance or actual work involved is the fun in itself, or "me" time. Kinda like putting a huge jigsaw puzzle together, logically speaking why the hell would you do that to yourself? But for some, it's the whole fun of it and enjoy solving the problem or contructing it.

 

[amphead]

Getting the diy bug, is a very personal choice. It depends on the amount of curiosity that you have for the science and engineering involved in audio reproduction. There's nothing like the satisfaction of knowing that a tweak you made to a circuit, that also happens to be beneficial to the sound, means that you will be the first and maybe only one to hear what that particular revision has accomplished. That is of course, if you didn't mind getting a little solder smoke up your nose, and banging your head against the workbench when troubleshooting into the wee hours. If this doesn't sound like your cup of tea, then buying from commercial vendors is always going to be the superior choice for you! Diyers have been known to buy plenty of quality commercial gear as well! All in all, there is an abundance of quality commercial gear to be had, and the same goes for the best diy designs.

 

[Uncle Erik]

I think the DIY amps are an excellent value and compare well. I don't agree with them being somewhat less artfully designed than the commercial amps, either.

The common DIY projects have been built and hacked on by literally hundreds of people. If there are problems, they get worked out. If the sound can be tweaked, it is, and changes get worked into new revisions. With commercial amps, you have only have a few pairs of eyeballs working on them. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but the work of several hundred eyeballs can find things that an individual can overlook and provide a greater magnitude of creativity to a problem.

Another factor is that DIY'ers are much more willing to embrace new and more radical designs, ones that might not be commercially viable. If you like the cutting edge, or just want something different, it really pays off to build your own.

Warranty? That's knowing how to build and troubleshoot. I have a lifetime warranty on everything I build, no shipping required.

 

[amphead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Another factor is that DIY'ers are much more willing to embrace new and more radical designs, ones that might not be commercially viable. If you like the cutting edge, or just want something different, it really pays off to build your own.

Ditto! I think that this is what pushes the technology now.
Design and builds by committee rarely bests what a driven individual can do with enlightenment, skill and serendipity.

 

[tomb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think the DIY amps are an excellent value and compare well. I don't agree with them being somewhat less artfully designed than the commercial amps, either. The common DIY projects have been built and hacked on by literally hundreds of people. If there are problems, they get worked out. If the sound can be tweaked, it is, and changes get worked into new revisions. With commercial amps, you have only have a few pairs of eyeballs working on them. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but the work of several hundred eyeballs can find things that an individual can overlook and provide a greater magnitude of creativity to a problem. Another factor is that DIY'ers are much more willing to embrace new and more radical designs, ones that might not be commercially viable. If you like the cutting edge, or just want something different, it really pays off to build your own. Warranty? That's knowing how to build and troubleshoot. I have a lifetime warranty on everything I build, no shipping required.

Excellent post, Uncle Erik!

I especially like the last two paragraphs:
1. DIY amp designs, at least when they are relatively new, are almost always on the cutting edge of performance.
2. You are your own lifetime warranty.

 

[MisterX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cotdt /img/forum/go_quote.gif In response to Mr. Maher's post, certain DIY designers such as Ti Kan sets high standards for his builders. The casing must look professional, the fit and finish flawless, wiring and solder done cleanly, with owner's manual, great customer service and warranty.

News to me.

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Just wanted to chime in here and say that the headphone DIY community is a vital and important part of the hobby. The best of the DIY designers and builders are at the same level technically as the best of the amp makers. Well built DIY amps are every bit as good sounding as the best of the commercial designs, and there are sub par performers in both catagories as well. In this hobby particularly the line between DIY and Commercial amps is blurry at best.

The main differences in my mind between the two is that DIY participation can be a wonderful furthuring of their personal journey in this hobby, whicch can result in a fabulously satisfying gear stable. But you've got to love your self supported warrenty, and you have to accept unknow resale value of the gear.

The best of the commercial amps come with a sense of security: known performance; build quality; after sale support; established resale value; and you only need the skills---and money---to open your wallet and fork over the dough.

I don't know if I really agree with the "cutting edge" being the lone purview of DIYers. We've certainly been innovative; but I'll grant in a fairly straightforward and not to technologically risky manner. But Ti's Beta22 is largly an inspired interpretation of quite well established topologies. I don't see it as cutting edge as I see it elegant. Don't take this as a disparagement, I also happen to think it might be the finest design out there.

I'll also point out that many of Mikhails designs are designed to meet custom requirements and as such are likely to be venture rather past cutting into bleeding edge quests for particularly unusual requirements.

All in all, I think if you do your homework, you can come up with solid solutions from all points in the spectrum of builders out there. But if you just sniff around looking to save a buck, you're likely not get your money's worth. There are plenty of commercial guys how could care less about your enjoyment of music and just want your cash, and there are DIYers who couldn't put a soldering iron through a stick of butter and just want your cash.

 

[jcw122]

*If you don't wanna read all this, basically I'd take the fun and learning of DIY any day over commercial products that I don't understand personally, unless it's an excessive hassle, which is rare for me.*

I have yet to build my first amp...but I'm HELLA excited for it. For me, DIY things are all about the fun, learning experience, gaining new and exciting skills, and hopefully saving money.

I'm a big hobbyist, mostly expensive hobbies. The DIY hobbies of mine are by-far the most FUN! I just really love making something and knowing it's my work, and that I can take full credit for it. I also know exactly how it works, and can tweak it, improve it, and play with it knowing it's my little creation. Having loads of new knowledge that the average person has no idea about is also a ton of fun. Even if someone has made something similar, it doesn't matter. I made it, it took my work, and I had a ton of fun along the way!

In case anyone is interested, the hobby of mine I'm talking about is computer making. I've built only 1 of my own computers so far, but it a great experience, and I'm still enjoying my computer since 2004. There's nothing like knowing I made it, and it rocks. I also love knowing that even if I break it (which I have, and sometimes very badly) I can ALWAYS fix it. Always. I can't even imagine having as much satisfaction if I would have bought a high-end Dell in 2004 to compete with it.

Another great thing is being respected by and being able to respect other computer builders/DIYers who also share the extensive knowledge that I have.

LEARNING, FUN, AND PASSION IS WHERE IT'S AT!