[balou]

Hi,
I just wondered... how would a standard cmoy with opa2132 or a standard pimeta with ad8620/ad8610+buf634 compare to the various commercial amps? skylab has made a very interesting comparison of many commercial amps, but unfortunately not against any diy amps

 

[LeonvB]

I'd say there's a big spread in the DIY amps. A dyna... or Beta22 will wreck most of the cheaper commercial amps, while it'll compare favourably against even the most expensive commercial amps (esp. pricewise).

 

[java]

Some are good, others very good, all depending on the design, and how well they are built, and the quality of the parts used ... , so difficult to say ...

 

[balou]

Yeah, that's why I specifically mentioned the cmoy and the pimeta both built with the default config suggested by tangent

Will, for example, a standard pimeta be on an equal sound level like a xin supermacro in it's default config

 

[GAD]

See my GAD's amp test thread. I included a Pimeta in there. While it's not a detailed review of the Pimeta, I'm here to tell you that it sounds damn good.

I'd rate it between the SR-71 and the XP-7.

GAD

 

[MaloS]

A good DIY design built well will reck just about anything for the money. Frankly I doubt I'd be able to get anything remotely as good as the Millet Hybrid I have for the 300 bucks i paid for it. When we get into extreme high-end though, commercial amplifiers have the advantage of a very experienced manufacturer making it, and often enough very well chosen components.

 

[balou]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GAD /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd rate it between the SR-71 and the XP-7.

Ok, I'm building a portable pimeta - just 9v, not 24v like you could do on a stationary pimeta. also no ad843, no biasing into class A, and just a power saving sijosae discrete buffer, not the big walt jung diamond buffer thingy. But reaching about the same SQ as the hornet would suffice

But regarding the cmoy... frankly, I think it sounds like crap. It gets surpassed by my vintage Sony D-33 headphone out, and by my onboard headphone amp on my denon dcd-1400 (middle-class eighties cdp, using a jrc4556 chip on the phones out). Quality is about on par with my ipod headphone out (it has an ever so slight edge over it).
Don't know if this is just because I'm driving Grado 32ohm headphones with the 40mA OPA2132... but I really do hope my pimeta will do better.

Anybody else has experience with cmoy against commercial amps?

 

[n_maher]

Threads like this are dangerous. Oftentimes it strikes me that people are completely ignoring many of the factors that contribute to the price of a commercial product, not the least of which is warranty support after the sale. Sure, 9 times out of 10 a DIY product is probably going to cost less than it's commercial competitor but few, if any DIY'ers are going to offer to replace it if it breaks in two weeks, not to mention two years. And when it comes to fit and finish there are precious few DIY'ers who can hold a candle to the commercial offerings.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you're only comparing things based on sonics it's not a fair comparison.

Just my 2¢,

Nate

 

[Icarium]

Uh yeah. No idea how cheaper opamp ones would compare. Probably not all that well except against some of the cheaper portables. But amps like dynamight/beta22 probably compare pretty well with topnotch solid state amps. The only differences is service/I kinda feel that a lot of tuning/revisions went through the development of manufactured amps like they were designed to provide a certain sound (Not that they are lacking in science) etc. While DIY amps are designed around EE principles etc etc. and would tend to have a cleaner but perhaps less musical sound because of that. Shrug, who knows though I haven't really listened to many DIY amps.

 

[balou]

Quote:

Originally Posted by n_maher /img/forum/go_quote.gif Threads like this are dangerous. Oftentimes it strikes me that people are completely ignoring many of the factors that contribute to the price of a commercial product, not the least of which is warranty support after the sale. Sure, 9 times out of 10 a DIY product is probably going to cost less than it's commercial competitor but few, if any DIY'ers are going to offer to replace it if it breaks in two weeks, not to mention two years. And when it comes to fit and finish there are precious few DIY'ers who can hold a candle to the commercial offerings. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you're only comparing things based on sonics it's not a fair comparison. Just my 2¢, Nate

um... all in all, my two cmoys cost me like 150$ (I needed to buy all this diy stuff that you're supposed to already have when you read an instruction how to build an amp. and of course all of this is never mentioned in those cmoy = 50$ threads). I'm sure that I would have had a lot less hassles if I just bought a commercial amp for that money. and this is not considering the fact that I even don't like what I've built. And for my pimeta, I'm also going to spend rather large amounts of money - lots of different opamps and buffers to try out, and I also need to buy a new multimeter because my old one is broken. All in all, I think the price difference isn't so big; yes you will probably save some money, but not that much - and you also have to see how much time this whole diy stuff takes. I probably wouldn't have started all this if I knew how much time and money (yeah sure a cmoy is just 50$ and it has good sound...) this needs and that my first project turned out to be pretty much useless for me...

And yes, if stuff breaks I have nobody to blame but me. I spent hours after hours to debug a simple circuit like the cmoy, dunno how it's gonna be with the pimeta.

Considering the casework, I must admit my cmoy in its battered mint tin doesn't look very nice. but this is a big price saving point. look at how much people spend who build really nice diy cases. others care for looks, I let the looks aside and go only for SQ.

Some people like ready to use products, that's fine with me, but I'm a guy who regularly eats ramen noodles, and the money saved goes into stuff like headphones

So why shouldn't it be fair, after going through all these hassles to save a few bucks, ending up with a product with inferior looks, to compare what I've built to stuff audio companies sell?

Oh, and you probably saw the

smiley, meaning a smiley of disbelief. I still don't really believe GAD. I now just hope that my pimeta will have halfway decent quality - that's why I basically started this thread, to see if it's best to abandon diy stuff and go for better(?) sounding premade stuff,

 

[cotdt]

The Pimeta should be really up there and compete well against commercial amps of its class. I definately agree with Icarium that DIY designs, especially the discrete ones, are based on science and engineering principles, and are designed to measure well. They also sound great even though the focus is on accurate amplification, but commercial designs aim for a specific kind of sound and thus are often more euphoric-sounding than DIY designs. They also don't get as hot as DIY designs like the Dynahi or Beta22 (thus more practical for certain people).

In response to Mr. Maher's post, certain DIY designers such as Ti Kan sets high standards for his builders. The casing must look professional, the fit and finish flawless, wiring and solder done cleanly, with owner's manual, great customer service and warranty. Though it will be difficult to make it look as nice as Ray Samuel's amps, DIY builders offer a competitive, professionally-done product IMHO. It is misleading to suggest that DIY amps are unprofessional.

 

[itsborken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by balou /img/forum/go_quote.gif that's why I basically started this thread, to see if it's best to abandon diy stuff and go for better(?) sounding premade stuff,

Well, if you enjoy diy and like learning, its worth it. It makes me appreciate the commercial stuff more and its a convenient lie that if one breaks I *might* have a chance in figuring out whats wrong and fix it.

 

[n_maher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cotdt /img/forum/go_quote.gif In response to Mr. Maher's post, certain DIY designers such as Ti Kan sets high standards for his builders. The casing must look professional, the fit and finish flawless, wiring and solder done cleanly, with owner's manual, great customer service and warranty. Though it will be difficult to make it look as nice as Ray Samuel's amps, DIY builders offer a competitive, professionally-done product IMHO. It is misleading to suggest that DIY amps are unprofessional.

Did you even read what I wrote? Let me say it again in case I was not clear, most DIY builders cannot compete with the commercial vendors. Notice I did not say ALL I said some. Clearly there are builders who are capable of producing gear and backing it up every bit as good as a manufacturer, but you'll often find that their builds are more expensive than joe solder slinger for the very reasons mentioned above.

And as balou mentioned the price to construct a DIY amp often assumes that the builder has several hundred dollars in tools and at least a basic understanding of electronics. Skimping on either is likely to land you in a heap of trouble.

If it sounds like I'm trying to convince people to buy instead of build that's not the case. I'm just trying to preach a little forethought, know what you're getting into in either case. If I went back and never built a thing and spent the money I have invested in DIY tools and builds I could have just bought a balanced max, B-52, supra-xlr, etc. Would I be as happy or have had as much fun? Heck no! But what I consider fun some consider unnecessary.

 

[d-cee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by n_maher /img/forum/go_quote.gif Did you even read what I wrote? Let me say it again in case I was not clear, most DIY builders cannot compete with the commercial vendors. Notice I did not say ALL I said some. Clearly there are builders who are capable of producing gear and backing it up every bit as good as a manufacturer, but you'll often find that their builds are more expensive than joe solder slinger for the very reasons mentioned above. And as balou mentioned the price to construct a DIY amp often assumes that the builder has several hundred dollars in tools and at least a basic understanding of electronics. Skimping on either is likely to land you in a heap of trouble. If it sounds like I'm trying to convince people to buy instead of build that's not the case. I'm just trying to preach a little forethought, know what you're getting into in either case. If I went back and never built a thing and spent the money I have invested in DIY tools and builds I could have just bought a balanced max, B-52, supra-xlr, etc. Would I be as happy or have had as much fun? Heck no! But what I consider fun some consider unnecessary.

werd, I've toyed with DIY but just the amount of time I've spent just modding things has deterred me from DIY.

primarily because for me the time isn't worth it. If i calculated the time it would take to build a DIY project and then consider how much my time is worth working, not even even adding the cost of parts and associated tooling it would probably work out cheaper for me just to buy the thing and spend my free time with friends/family.

I'm also the sort of person that doesn't get any satisfaction going fishing and pulling in a big one.

IMHO the best value is probably high quality DIYFO builders that way you get the best of both worlds

$0.02

 

[ClieOS]

After building my own DIY cMoy2 for ~$200 (that is, with all the best part in the market), I can honestly say it sounds as good as (if not better than) most of the commercial amp with in and below its price.

I personal think that problem with certain DIY projects (especially the complicate one) is that you need a lot of time to fine tune both building skill and parts in order to maximize the performance, time that most people don't have (or rather spend else where

). isn't that a fact that a lots of commercial headphone amp builders started as DIYer?