[Elecroestatico]

So just to be clear you are saying you would not be able to tell the difference between equipment you are not familiar with?? Say a Realtek DAC and a SABRE ES9028PRO.

I'm saying that from a dozen sources of my own if you randomly play them to me in a blind test I cannot always sort what source you are playing me with as much ratio of success as successfully detecting that a different source has been changed during the listening test.

from unfamiliar sources I can still tell the differenc and believe me thats nothing special to own as human, many can, thats the reason this forum exist

 

[bigshot]

I'm very interested in hearing all about your blind test where you could tell the difference. What was your success ratio? How many trials did you do. What controls did you have in place? Which DAC was the easiest to discern was different?

 

[oldmate]

I'm saying that from a dozen sources of my own if you randomly play them to me in a blind test I cannot always sort what source you are playing me with as much ratio of success as successfully detecting that a different source has been changed during the listening test.

That sentence just does not make any sense at all.

Have you ever been subjected to or carried out a blind test??

 

[bigshot]

He says he knows he can do it, so he must have conducted a test like this.

 

[oldmate]

This guy is full of it. No way has he done a proper blind test. Happy to be proven wrong though but he cannot just say he has. He should post pictures of his test setup and then he is off the hook.

A blind test with different cables also as after all this thread is about cables no??

 

[Laura80]

when I was a noob and I got my first e10k fiio dac I thought I had it all and the perfect sound signal, until I went to a headphone expo and pluged my phones to other sources and also was exposed to the signal of a quest amp dac or when I heard the focal utopia pluged into a chord dave, thats when I realize how silly my perfecty flat and linear analog fiio signal it was and how little I knew about this hobby. Oh well live and learn. Im sure many here will no longer believe this no sense of all amps and dacs sound the same or that cables are all the same as they mature in this hobby

I just googled the chord dave you mentioned and am surprised at how expensive it is.

I’m very inexperienced in this hobby but for that kind of cost I’d expect to be able to hear a significant sonic performance?

 

[bigshot]

This guy is full of it. No way has he done a proper blind test.

How could he be so sure of his ability to pass a test like that if he's never taken one?

Apparently he owns these $5000 DACs too, because he is familiar with how they sound. If that is the case, we can get him to help us test and measure these clear differences.

 

[PointyFox]

+

HAHAha lol please tell me what is the $200 dac model that performed like the $5000 dollar one? I will rush into buying right away. Tell us what the 5k was so I can also recommend that one to my worst enemy

You will "rush into buying it" even after claiming to have "dozens of sources"? With the amount of laughing and nonsense you're posting I can only assume I'm talking to non other than the Joker.

 

[bfreedma]

It should not be an impossible task, specially when you are in the possibly busiest forum in the internet that talks about how one headphone amp sounds different that another or how a dac sounds different than another, it's actually the most possible task you can think of, just visit any other thread about an specific dac and you'll see how people talk about the sound caracteristics and even the best sounding pairings with certain models for headphones with certain models of dacs. This forum is mostly filled of such examples and opinions, you are swimming in a sea of what you call impossible task

If it’s as trivially easy as you belive, why do you repeatedly fail to post objective evidence when asked? In this subforum, subjective opinions are simply not sufficient, and referencing group think as “proof” isn’t going to convince anyone. You’re just another set of “golden ears” who can’t support their claims and haven’t even produced evidence that your hearing is anything special. If you don’t have gear measurements, how about an audiologist report showing your superior auditory ability.

 

[Steve999]

If it’s as trivially easy as you belive, why do you repeatedly fail to post objective evidence when asked? In this subforum, subjective opinions are simply not sufficient, and referencing group think as “proof” isn’t going to convince anyone. You’re just another set of “golden ears” who can’t support their claims and haven’t even produced evidence that your hearing is anything special. If you don’t have gear measurements, how about an audiologist report showing your superior auditory ability.

The Hornet strikes again!!!!!

Scientific reference:

https://www.tripsavvy.com/lethal-asian-giant-hornets-3499028

"Part of the reason Asian Giant Hornets are so deadly, even if you don't encounter a swarm of them, is that they don't die when they sting you. In fact, they don't even lose their stingers, as most other bee and wasps species do, so they can sting you multiple times if they're especially agitated. And they usually are!"

 

[bfreedma]

The Hornet strikes again!!!!!

Scientific reference:

https://www.tripsavvy.com/lethal-asian-giant-hornets-3499028

"Part of the reason Asian Giant Hornets are so deadly, even if you don't encounter a swarm of them, is that they don't die when they sting you. In fact, they don't even lose their stingers, are most other bee and wasps species do, so they can sting you multiple times if they're especially agitated. And they usually are!"

Clicked the link. It’s like I’m looking in a mirror.

 

[Maxx134]

Guys, first of all, you can only convince novices with blind tests, maybe because they are inherently open-minded.
Member Electroestatico seems very well advanced in going thru much gear, and in doing so has formed his own opinions.

Personally, I feel that blind testing is the only method that used to discount golden ear types, because it is so narrow in scope.

There needs to be newer better testing in headfi type situations, with headphones, which I don't see we have.

This would greatly reduce variables such as room positioning and whole gear variables.

Most all blind testing does not involve headphones or headfi associated gear, except dacs.
I beleive we can narrow the variables greatly with headphones and with more comfortable, less ambiguous settings or variables which compromise the minset and introduce doubt.
Doubt is like an eraser to the mind.
It destroys the decision making process.

when I was a noob and I got my first e10k fiio dac I thought I had it all and the perfect sound signal, until I went to a headphone expo and pluged my phones to other sources and also was exposed to the signal of a quest amp dac or when I heard the focal utopia pluged into a chord dave, thats when I realize how silly my perfecty flat and linear analog fiio signal it was and how little I knew about this hobby. Oh well live and learn. Im sure many here will no longer believe this no sense of all amps and dacs sound the same or that cables are all the same as they mature in this hobby

Actually you sound like your in a place I been long ago, and you don't realize you cannot really argue subjective points in a forum/thread that needs actual data.
Regardless how many may agree with you in other forums.

I myself have my own experience and viewpoints but I am at a point that I do not actually see any conflict,
Because you have to apply the data properly.
Most data covers specific scenarios which may or may not be sufficient for whatever the person is investigating.

I have this DAC/headphone amp...
https://www.oppodigital.com/headphone-amplifier-ha-1/

I owned and really liked that unit when I had it, and felt it can compete with many high end units.

Yet I also felt it had its own signature, being wide , airy and sweet.
The problem is that my impression was subjective to me, and could vary to another.

Anyways, I do have a "proposition/solution" for this thread.
Place two dacs in some type of "summing" where we do the "null" experiment like carver did..

Actually it could be easy.
Measure and adjust output volume.
Then place the positives of both dac outputs (of same side-channel) across a headphone driver.
You could easily wire a headphone cable for both channels to play the difference of two sources.
Any difference at all, if any, would be produce an audible signal.
Yet that result would also need to be explained.

I am guessing a tonality difference could be a filter difference.

That would be a suggestion for this thread instead of back and forth arguments..

 

[PointyFox]

At a minimum, anyone claiming to have "golden ears" should take this test and pass with a 16 correct out of 16 with no repeats. (My score in a fairly loud environment was 13 out of 16 for reference and I don't claim to have "golden ears").

http://mattmontag.com/audio-listening-test/

 

[bfreedma]

Guys, first of all, you can only convince novices with blind tests, maybe because they are inherently open-minded.
Member Electroestatico seems very well advanced in going thru much gear, and in doing so has formed his own opinions.

Personally, I feel that blind testing is the only method that used to discount golden ear types, because it is so narrow in scope.

There needs to be newer better testing in headfi type situations, with headphones, which I don't see we have.

This would greatly reduce variables such as room positioning and whole gear variables.

Most all blind testing does not involve headphones or headfi associated gear, except dacs.
I beleive we can narrow the variables greatly with headphones and with more comfortable, less ambiguous settings or variables which compromise the minset and introduce doubt.
Doubt is like an eraser to the mind.
It destroys the decision making process.



Actually you sound like your in a place I been long ago, and you don't realize you cannot really argue subjective points in a forum/thread that needs actual data.
Regardless how many may agree with you in other forums.

I myself have my own experience and viewpoints but I am at a point that I do not actually see any conflict,
Because you have to apply the data properly.
Most data covers specific scenarios which may or may not be sufficient for whatever the person is investigating.



I owned and really liked that unit when I had it, and felt it can compete with many high end units.

Yet I also felt it had its own signature, being wide , airy and sweet.

Anyways, I do have a "proposition/solution" for this thread.
Place two dacs in some type of "summing" where we do the "null" experiment like carver did..

Actually it could be easy.
Measure and adjust output volume.
Then place the positives of both dac outputs (of same side-channel) across a headphone driver.
You could easily wire a headphone cable for both channels to play the difference of two sources.
Any difference at all, if any, would be produce an audible signal.
Yet that result would need to be explained.

That would be a suggestion for this thread instead of back and forth arguments..

Odd that the profile of the member in question lists none of that high end gear and nowhere near the volume of gear he claims. Of course, that proves nothing but to be kind, I have my doubts about his claims.

I’m also going to disagree with your narrative of the utility of blind testing - one of the benefits is to eliminate existing biases, not to simply appeal to open minded novices. Though blind testing certainly works just fine on the open minded.

 

[bigshot]

I owned and really liked that unit when I had it, and felt it can compete with many high end units. Yet I also felt it had its own signature, being wide , airy and sweet.
The problem is that my impression was subjective to me, and could vary to another.

I did a controlled listening test where I compared it to an iPod Classic in a level matched, direct A/B switched, blind comparison playing the exact same WAV file. Neither I nor a sound mixer friend who was helping me evaluate it could tell any difference at all. If I did a careful listening test, and you are just depending on a subjective impression, I would say that you most likely are wrong. I've also compared a $40 Walmart DVD player to the iPod. It sounded exactly the same too. So did my iPhones, my Sony blu-ray player, my Pioneer blu-ray player, my Oppo blu-ray player. Everything that I compare using careful controls sounds the same.

I'm looking for someone who has been careful in their listening comparisons like I have who have found a DAC that sounds different. It really isn't worth my time to try to verify the impressions of people who can't be bothered to do a good test themselves. I'm sure you understand that.

If you know anyone who cares enough about the performance of their equipment to go to the bother of testing it, please point them my way. So far, everyone who claims to hear differences only hear them when they are doing sloppy, uncontrolled comparisons. I'm trying my darnedest to not assume that the sloppy testing and the impression that DACs sound different from each other are correlated, but I'm striving to remain open to the possibility that there might be one out there somewhere.

I'm Diogenes looking for the last honest man.

As for your suggestion of a null test...

I'm curious... How would you do a null test with two DACs? You'd have to take the analogue output and redigitize it to get it into a sound editing program to synchronize and sum the two. Wouldn't you then say that the capture device might be affect the signals more than the difference between DACs?

Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong and your suggestion of just crossing the wires would work. But how would you synchronize the two DACs perfectly? If you fed a digital audio signal through a splitter, into two DACs, would it come out the analogue end without a time shift? I've never done that. The buffers would have to work exactly the same. But I suspect that the difference is likely to be at a very low level. It would be hard to hear it if you couldn't adjust it in a sound editing program. Doing that wouldn't give you any idea if the difference made an audible difference or not.