[adfinder23]

I've been searching about holophonic sound for the last 7 hours or so and stumbled across this forum. Searched it and found talk, but no definitive answers.

Here's what I'm trying to create... Holophonic recordings

And along my searches I've found things about Holophone (seems to be surround sound, not what I'm really looking for), Hugo Zuccarelli (inventor of holophonic sound), Ambisonics, Binaural recordings, etc.

At first I thought Binaural Recordings was it, but it seems Holophonic is more involved. One of the best examples I found "The Virtual Barbershop" says something about an algorithm being used, Cetera. Searching finds it to be developed by hearing specialists, Starkey.

I followed all the links on this and subsequent pages to find more info.

This page mentions it and talks about binaural recordings and mentions some software Spinaudio and Amphiotik.

Soo...

Does anyone know how I can create holophonic sound?

Is there software I can use? Perhaps to turn binaural into something more holophonic.

After some searching I thought all I needed to do was by some Binaural Microphones, place them in my ears and I'd be good to go. Perhaps not.

Does anyone have any samples just using binaural mics in their ears? I'm looking to see what it would sound like with someone talking around them, left, right, front, rear. And above and below as well to see how well this technique compares to true holophonic sound. Such as being able to hear the matchbox shaking around your lower back.

Thanks

 

[ericj]

Well, here's the thing. You have a maximum of two ears, yes? Thus, all possible cues for audio positioning must come in binaural form in the end.

The rest of it boils down to head-related transfer functions. Google for HRTF to learn more.

Joerg Jecklin of ugly headphone fame originally proposed that binaural recordings should be made by putting a disc of cardboard or something between two mics, simulating the head between the two ears. They called this the "jecklin disc" and a lot of binaural recordings were made that way, but it's an imperfect method.

A lot of binaural recordings are made with "artificial head" type stereo mics, such as the AKG D99C I use as my avatar.

There is software out there to simulate the acoustic properties of having a head between two ears, but i don't know if any of it is free.

 

[goober-george]

Wow I just listened to those holophonic demos that was amazing. I wish I could hear music like this.

 

[Gautama]

Your wish is granted George.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/2711065-post9.html

 

[Gradofan2]

Are there any CDs recorded in this manner?

If so, what are they?

 

[Psiga]

This might help a little:
Sonic Studios HRTF Baffled/Headworn Ambient Stereo & Surround Microphone Systems

They have MP3 demos, and CDs to buy (here's lookin' at you, gradofan):
Sonic Studios MP3 Page 1 with Ambient Stereo-Surround Composer, Nature Sounds, Musicology Recordings

And this guy is always great fun:
quiet american


I'd like to know what kinds of headphones would be best for this. I've found that a lot of headphones can do left/right, up/down really well, but forward/back are distorted consistently.

I've been looking to find a used pair of Sony MDR-F1s (preferably used enough to put them near the USD$100 mark), but even then I'm not sure it'll solve the front/back challenge.

 

[goober-george]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psiga /img/forum/go_quote.gif This might help a little: Sonic Studios HRTF Baffled/Headworn Ambient Stereo & Surround Microphone Systems They have MP3 demos, and CDs to buy (here's lookin' at you, gradofan): Sonic Studios MP3 Page 1 with Ambient Stereo-Surround Composer, Nature Sounds, Musicology Recordings And this guy is always great fun: quiet american I'd like to know what kinds of headphones would be best for this. I've found that a lot of headphones can do left/right, up/down really well, but forward/back are distorted consistently. I've been looking to find a used pair of Sony MDR-F1s (preferably used enough to put them near the USD$100 mark), but even then I'm not sure it'll solve the front/back challenge.

I wouldn't expect Grados to do that well, but it sounds awesome. It's like a whole different headphone when you play holophonic stuff. I think any headphone would perform just fine though. Higher end models with sound stage would probably be even better.

 

[fraseyboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by goober-george /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wouldn't expect Grados to do that well, but it sounds awesome. It's like a whole different headphone when you play holophonic stuff. I think any headphone would perform just fine though. Higher end models with sound stage would probably be even better.

Grado's may not have soundstage but there instrument positioning is incredible. I found they work very well with binaural.

 

[Yukon Trooper]

Does anyone have creepy or scary recordings like this? Like you can hear someone rustling in the brush, or really odd sounds in the distance get closer and closer? That stuff would be TOO cool.

 

[Psiga]

Hm. Sonic Studios is saying that the SA1000, SA3000, and SA5000 are all built like advanced versions of the F1. I'll have to check with my buddy who has the SA5000, and see what his opinions are, regarding the accuracy of the whole 360° headstage.

 

[khbaur330162]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psiga /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hm. Sonic Studios is saying that the SA1000, SA3000, and SA5000 are all built like advanced versions of the F1. I'll have to check with my buddy who has the SA5000, and see what his opinions are, regarding the accuracy of the whole 360° headstage.

I have scattered posts detailing my very limited experience with angled drivers and binaural recordings, all of which were based off my findings with my modded CD3000's. What I can say is the effect is exceptionally convincing and a topic I'm most interested in. People coming from speakers often times hate headphones for their inability to create accurate virtual auditory space, or soundstage. I believe you can have the sheer intimacy and accuracy of headphones coupled with the precise imaging and expansive, airy soundstage of speakers in a single package.

 

[edstrelow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by adfinder23 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've been searching about holophonic sound for the last 7 hours or so and stumbled across this forum. Searched it and found talk, but no definitive answers. Here's what I'm trying to create... Holophonic recordings And along my searches I've found things about Holophone (seems to be surround sound, not what I'm really looking for), Hugo Zuccarelli (inventor of holophonic sound), Ambisonics, Binaural recordings, etc. At first I thought Binaural Recordings was it, but it seems Holophonic is more involved. One of the best examples I found "The Virtual Barbershop" says something about an algorithm being used, Cetera. Searching finds it to be developed by hearing specialists, Starkey. I followed all the links on this and subsequent pages to find more info. This page mentions it and talks about binaural recordings and mentions some software Spinaudio and Amphiotik. Soo... Does anyone know how I can create holophonic sound? Is there software I can use? Perhaps to turn binaural into something more holophonic. After some searching I thought all I needed to do was by some Binaural Microphones, place them in my ears and I'd be good to go. Perhaps not. Does anyone have any samples just using binaural mics in their ears? I'm looking to see what it would sound like with someone talking around them, left, right, front, rear. And above and below as well to see how well this technique compares to true holophonic sound. Such as being able to hear the matchbox shaking around your lower back. Thanks

I have done this on occasion by using 2 small condenser microphones, attached to my ears, placed approximately at the level of the opening to the ear canal and recording to a Sony TCD5M portable cassette recorder. These make excellent binaural recordings as good as anything I have seen for sale.

You can substitute a dummy head for your own head but yours would probably give the best results for you personally.

Holophonic is probably just a gimmicky name for binaural. Remember that there are Dolby headphone systems which can achieve somewhat the same effect.

Stax, the Japanese electrostatic headphone company issued a number of binaural cd's some years back and I used to have an even older Sennheiser binaural LP record.

 

[etherealbeats]

What that sounded stupidly real through ER-4's.

Although the phones cannot project sound in front of you very well anything to the side and behind is amazing. With that barber shop one I had to check the side of my room to make sure there wasn't a guy called Manuel playing the guitar. The whole clarity of the ER-4's makes instruments sound so real.

 

[adfinder23]

Thanks for the help.

I understand that dummy heads are often used, but I can't seem to find what can be used to make recordings with such realistic localization of sounds. I've heard dozens of samples of binaurals and they sound good, but I'm not sure if they place the sound as accurately and out of the head. Though I have heard some where I can hear sounds above or below me. However, with the confusion of the differences between Holophonic and Binaural I'm not sure which I'm listening to.

Since the inventor of Holophonic says it's not just Binaural, and the Virtual Barbershop saying that a special algorithm (Cetera) is being used, there could be a little something more to it, whether it be software, hardware or a little of both. Though, it doesn't look like it is commercially available.

Which is why I was wondering if there was software that I could use to make binaural recordings more holophonic. Though, I need the location of the sound to be dynamic, not just choose a place in space and be done. I need the voice to be moving and locally identifiable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by edstrelow /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have done this on occasion by using 2 small condenser microphones, attached to my ears, placed approximately at the level of the opening to the ear canal and recording to a Sony TCD5M portable cassette recorder. These make excellent binaural recordings as good as anything I have seen for sale. You can substitute a dummy head for your own head but yours would probably give the best results for you personally. Holophonic is probably just a gimmicky name for binaural. Remember that there are Dolby headphone systems which can achieve somewhat the same effect.

This is what I was looking to do. Get some binaural mics, place them in my ear and do some recordings. I may experiment with dummy heads as well.

The recordings I've heard are indeed 3D, but not as much as those holophonic examples. They're more in the head and like a fading effect, but more 3D than simple fading.

Do you still have any of the recordings you made?

It's hard to determine whether it would do the trick, since the examples I've heard are not examples of what I need. I hear people walking in the park, dogs running by, music, etc. I'd like to hear an example of a matchbox being shaken around someone's head, above, below, by their stomach, back, feet, etc. to see if I can identify the location of the sound just using binaural recordings. Or the recording head lying on a bed and a person talking at the foot of the bed standing, kneeling, beside them, right above their face, in their ear, etc.

Since the binaural recordings I hear don't attempt to do similar things that I've heard in the Holophonic recordings, I can't tell how similar they work.

Thanks again.

 

[Psiga]

That's really unfortunately true. There doesn't seem to be a standard benchmark for these guys to present.

Match boxes are becoming a bit difficult to find, it seems. I wonder, what would be kind-of standard wherever you go? Clinking a bottlecap against a glass Coke bottle?

Anyway, yeah, there are a few different methods of recording, and I couldn't even tell you which one sounds most realistic to me, since my headphones are inherently distorting the image.

Which sort of headphones are you testing this on, adfinder23?