[Max spl]

What don’t you understand?

Ok I translated.

 

[Max spl]

@ Aldo40

I know you try to help me.
I understand it .

I know how everything works.
I'm 30 years old and I started to play with crossovers - speakers , amps from 15 years old . The BAs are very small, one wrong move and is easy to damage them or to be clogged etc.

Are millimeter small. Needs attention. I needed to repeat it many times. Isn't easy.
Now I can build iems relative easy I can say.

Now im not shaking ,I don't get crazy and I don't throw them away or smashing them because they don't sound as I want.

Now for bass ? DDs vs BAs
My favorite part is bass .
I love bass , Bass for me is everything.

One day I was in the gym ( 5 years ago ) and one friend bought the shure se846 ( 1000 bucks ) and he told me these are the best basshead iems in the world. And I said wow, I want to try them. And said ok, smiling. Was so proud. This time I had the acoustic research ar m2 with me in the gym and one pair of old dunu ( 100 bucks )
The acoustic research was rooted with viper4android installed "" very well tuned for bass frequencies "" when it comes to power bass was an absolute beast. He gave me the shure and I start laughing. I asked what is this ? this has no bass , I gave him mine, he was speechless. Can really a BA produce this grip , this punch, this slamm, this impact , this mind blowing bass ? Breathtaking power.

A list of basshead iems

Cammpfire audio Vegas, atlas,
dunu Luna,
All imr acoustics iems with those crazy 15 mm big bass drivers.
Sony ier- z1r,
many other high end Sony iems,
future sonics,
hisoundaudio wooduo 60 dollars iem with extremely punchy bass.
Aurisonics asg
The list goes on ........

New Iem I want to buy "God bass like reviews " , is the empire ears odin, but i can't because they are extremely expensive.
I may buy them if I find them used.

Im gonna buy next month or in 2 months the thieaudio voyager 14 ,they say has insane bass for BAs and it rumbles more than DDs .
So they describe it at least on their homepage. I'm very curious. Or it will be like dunu vs shure again

Downside of a DD you need a powerful dap or dac / amp.
Then for a DD is easy peasy bass is easy.

BA bass can be faster with a better resolution and not always.

I like them both of course DDs and BAs.
I always add 2 dual BAs for bass otherwise isn't good for me.

In my other account on headfi I'm in the basshead iem thread years now.

NO BASS NO FUN % ❤

I know long story

 

[Aldo40]

Excuse me for my English, I’m French.

You’re 30 years old.

30 years ago, I was 20 years old (50 years old), and I also started at the age of 15, so 35 years in audio

But it is not a competition of which started first, what counts is the journey that we did not have in the audio what we create, what has marked the minds, it seems to me that we have already discussed my journey together

IEM is not like an acoustic loudspeaker.

Despite the years I’ve had to design acoustic speakers, DAC, amps, preamps and even CD transports, it didn’t make me the king of EMI filtering, it certainly helps, but we had to learn some things and especially listen to the experiences of others who were in the IEM before me, and even if we don’t have the same course, I have a deep respect for them because I know their journey in this environment very well , I speak of Dhruv in particular and many others who recognize themselves

As for the bass in your list, I got the Dunu Luna, the vega too, have may have more bass currently, but that’s not all, I have IEM with double 38dx1 that rivals my hybrids, each have their advantages and disadvantages, I’m working on a DD/BA hybrid bass right now but it takes time to fully implement all of this.

 

[ForceMajeure]

Regarding soldering DD's BA's etc...The rule of thumb is simply not to spend time doing it. It Should be as fast as a tap so less than a second even less than 0.5 sec. Having a too low solder iron temperature can be unbeneficial actually because you spend more time trying to solder things and transfer more heat doing so.

I like the 900m t-2c hakko tip, some of them iirc 900m-t 2cm even have a curved "pocket" inside that has solder retention capabilities. Thus far it's been good for me although for some smaller BA's that have vents close to the solder pads you have to be careful.

All your wires needs to be pre tinned. Using a dab of flux on the solder pads prior is a good idea although if you have vents near (twfk alike and some vented sonions f.e) avoid flux at all cost since you'll end up clogging the vents.

The usual temperature I use is 360-380. Sometimes I go lower but after being experienced, I just find that having a slightly higher temp and just doing a tap is much better and faster for me.

Everyone gets used to slightly different solder tips, temperatures, tweezer shapes etc...

The main issue we are facing is that because we use and reuse the same BAs for prototyping and having them uncased for listening tests, we end up soldering and unsoldering many times. Wires also dangling from the BAs with all kind of components attached including cables while listening to them uncased, tend to get disconnected and potentially damage the solder pads.

There are ways to save your solder pads if you have still access to a bit of the hard wire coming from the BA to the where the solder pads used to sit. You'll need a very strong magnifying glass and also a good bit of luck, sometimes just using a bit of solder on that bit of hard wire and then gluing the solder pads on top of it and heating it with a solder will recreate the connection. Of course you'll now have to be much more careful soldering and unsoldering wires to that BA and personally I would only solder once on it...

 

[ForceMajeure]

Ah one last thing I forgot to mention that might not be clear for folks that are completely new at this. When soldering a wire to a BA pad. You don't use tin and melt it while holding the wire next to the solder pad. It's not like through hole soldering.

You just need a bit of tin on your solder tip prior soldering, the less the better, and having made sure your wires are pre tinned at their extremities.

Then just create a contact while bringing the wire next to the solder pad and touching it with the solder iron tip. That's it. I know it might sound trivial to most of us but for folks completely new at this it might not be.

 

[dhruvmeena96]

for god sake
use tiny bit of solder flux gel on the solder point and overheating to the point burning solder iron(500C if it supports or your highest solder temp if below 500C) and just tap
thats the way to solder
@ForceMajeure
0.5second, ouch, so accurate timing

@ Aldo40

I know you try to help me.
I understand it .

I know how everything works.
I'm 30 years old and I started to play with crossovers - speakers , amps from 15 years old . The BAs are very small, one wrong move and is easy to damage them or to be clogged etc.

Are millimeter small. Needs attention. I needed to repeat it many times. Isn't easy.
Now I can build iems relative easy I can say.

Now im not shaking ,I don't get crazy and I don't throw them away or smashing them because they don't sound as I want.

Now for bass ? DDs vs BAs
My favorite part is bass .
I love bass , Bass for me is everything.

One day I was in the gym ( 5 years ago ) and one friend bought the shure se846 ( 1000 bucks ) and he told me these are the best basshead iems in the world. And I said wow, I want to try them. And said ok, smiling. Was so proud. This time I had the acoustic research ar m2 with me in the gym and one pair of old dunu ( 100 bucks )
The acoustic research was rooted with viper4android installed "" very well tuned for bass frequencies "" when it comes to power bass was an absolute beast. He gave me the shure and I start laughing. I asked what is this ? this has no bass , I gave him mine, he was speechless. Can really a BA produce this grip , this punch, this slamm, this impact , this mind blowing bass ? Breathtaking power.

A list of basshead iems

Cammpfire audio Vegas, atlas,
dunu Luna,
All imr acoustics iems with those crazy 15 mm big bass drivers.
Sony ier- z1r,
many other high end Sony iems,
future sonics,
hisoundaudio wooduo 60 dollars iem with extremely punchy bass.
Aurisonics asg
The list goes on ........

New Iem I want to buy "God bass like reviews " , is the empire ears odin, but i can't because they are extremely expensive.
I may buy them if I find them used.

Im gonna buy next month or in 2 months the thieaudio voyager 14 ,they say has insane bass for BAs and it rumbles more than DDs .
So they describe it at least on their homepage. I'm very curious. Or it will be like dunu vs shure again

Downside of a DD you need a powerful dap or dac / amp.
Then for a DD is easy peasy bass is easy.

BA bass can be faster with a better resolution and not always.

I like them both of course DDs and BAs.
I always add 2 dual BAs for bass otherwise isn't good for me.

In my other account on headfi I'm in the basshead iem thread years now.

NO BASS NO FUN % ❤

I know long story

Campfire Vega....meh
Campfire Atlas.....meh
IMR Acoustics.....meh
Sony IER Z1R....some quality sound there
Which all sony...M9.... okayish
XB90EX vintage..... okayish
FutureSonic.. bloaty mess
Aurisonic...ear hurting bass
hisoundaudio wooduo(never heard of this brand)

Since you are 30years old.... i have a question mate
what is bass for you objectively and subjectively

also, i am 26 years old and have been making speakers since i was 12years old, amps when i was 19, hearing aids for social service when i was 21. Experience in building only helps you in soldering and how to assemble things. The more important thing is to understand the physics rather than being wowed by it.

Everyone agrees that bass is needed for fun but understanding how to tune the bass and the whole spectrum of frequencies is far more important for optimal balance
i wont do things like Vega or Atlas or aurisonics.... which just skew so much in bass that it sounds objectively and subjectively worse than Sony MH755(5$)

Even empire ears was plagued by too much treble or too much bass..... until there was odin, which actually helped them come out of the curse... Odin has respectable and fun bass without bleeding it into mids, nearly perfect pinnae boost and smooth treble. Empire redeemed themselves


also, frequency works differently inside a sealed ear canal environment and so is BA
and So is distortion and Harmonic orders(2nd order vs 3rd order)

and plus, you can buy any iem you want, we are nobody to change your opinions but we are here making DIY homemade iem. It would be more fun to make iem at home and we would be glad to help you out

now Lets do so myth busting

- those who think that crossover smears sound are wrong... It has more to do with phase the crossover shift and simple tube and crossover adjustment can fix the acoustic phase which was earlier shifted by the capacitor

- those who think bass is justice, lemme tell you, its a far deeper topic.. i can make an iem with pretty neutral warmish bass and still trick most of ears to think its bass extended. It has to do with how the distortion is structured
the warm sound comes from 2nd order distortion or even harmonics added by the everything in chain...especially the speaker, as its most distortive one
Why dynamic driver sound so thundering and pleasing in bass, is because of its 2nd order dominant nature
it moves more air in volume at less pressure and its only one side radiating, the mechanism dont push the diaphram back hardly like push pull system
the BA, inherently has low surface area diaphragm, hence the air molecule on surface of BA diaphragm is low, but the pressure it generates due to moving iron nature is so high that it can literally translate into push pull

when we are only pushing air in general, we generate a model of high air pressure and low air pressure, which lead to 2nd order distortion because of natural thermal response
for example(not related to audio)
heat up air and then make it come back to room temperature slowly
this means that we quickly heat air(signal burst) and then slowly let it come down to room temperature(DD decay)

in BA, its hyper air heatup expansion and compression due to its higher pressure factor
its like heat and cool

now in audio language
Sir Nelson Pass has written over harmonic series and distortion and why odd harmonics are produced and why even are produced
basically and push pull design will be odd order harmonic dominant and this leads to the cold, dry, hyper resolving and fast sound whereas as even order sounds more like warm, wet, natural sounding with natural timbre decay

so, even if we have same frequency graph, the two iem can sound completely different

- For the acoustic phase to be flat for perfection, thats also kinda half true and half false
humans are more sensitive to dynamic phase shift rather than constant and brain can filter it out, so we have to only make sure that the phase doesnt lead to frequency cancellation. Having a flat phase has only very specific advantage that it causes less fatique over longer listening session

 

[Wgibson]

@dhruvmeena96 that's a lot of details to consider, thanks. Do you have any comments/opinions on sealed vs vented bass BAs?

 

[kkugel]

Does anyone have the calibration file for the chinese 711? My seller is slow to send it...

 

[Max spl]

for god sake
use tiny bit of solder flux gel on the solder point and overheating to the point burning solder iron(500C if it supports or your highest solder temp if below 500C) and just tap
thats the way to solder
@ForceMajeure
0.5second, ouch, so accurate timing

Campfire Vega....meh
Campfire Atlas.....meh
IMR Acoustics.....meh
Sony IER Z1R....some quality sound there
Which all sony...M9.... okayish
XB90EX vintage..... okayish
FutureSonic.. bloaty mess
Aurisonic...ear hurting bass
hisoundaudio wooduo(never heard of this brand)

Since you are 30years old.... i have a question mate
what is bass for you objectively and subjectively

also, i am 26 years old and have been making speakers since i was 12years old, amps when i was 19, hearing aids for social service when i was 21. Experience in building only helps you in soldering and how to assemble things. The more important thing is to understand the physics rather than being wowed by it.

Everyone agrees that bass is needed for fun but understanding how to tune the bass and the whole spectrum of frequencies is far more important for optimal balance
i wont do things like Vega or Atlas or aurisonics.... which just skew so much in bass that it sounds objectively and subjectively worse than Sony MH755(5$)

Even empire ears was plagued by too much treble or too much bass..... until there was odin, which actually helped them come out of the curse... Odin has respectable and fun bass without bleeding it into mids, nearly perfect pinnae boost and smooth treble. Empire redeemed themselves


also, frequency works differently inside a sealed ear canal environment and so is BA
and So is distortion and Harmonic orders(2nd order vs 3rd order)

and plus, you can buy any iem you want, we are nobody to change your opinions but we are here making DIY homemade iem. It would be more fun to make iem at home and we would be glad to help you out

now Lets do so myth busting

- those who think that crossover smears sound are wrong... It has more to do with phase the crossover shift and simple tube and crossover adjustment can fix the acoustic phase which was earlier shifted by the capacitor

- those who think bass is justice, lemme tell you, its a far deeper topic.. i can make an iem with pretty neutral warmish bass and still trick most of ears to think its bass extended. It has to do with how the distortion is structured
the warm sound comes from 2nd order distortion or even harmonics added by the everything in chain...especially the speaker, as its most distortive one
Why dynamic driver sound so thundering and pleasing in bass, is because of its 2nd order dominant nature
it moves more air in volume at less pressure and its only one side radiating, the mechanism dont push the diaphram back hardly like push pull system
the BA, inherently has low surface area diaphragm, hence the air molecule on surface of BA diaphragm is low, but the pressure it generates due to moving iron nature is so high that it can literally translate into push pull

when we are only pushing air in general, we generate a model of high air pressure and low air pressure, which lead to 2nd order distortion because of natural thermal response
for example(not related to audio)
heat up air and then make it come back to room temperature slowly
this means that we quickly heat air(signal burst) and then slowly let it come down to room temperature(DD decay)

in BA, its hyper air heatup expansion and compression due to its higher pressure factor
its like heat and cool

now in audio language
Sir Nelson Pass has written over harmonic series and distortion and why odd harmonics are produced and why even are produced
basically and push pull design will be odd order harmonic dominant and this leads to the cold, dry, hyper resolving and fast sound whereas as even order sounds more like warm, wet, natural sounding with natural timbre decay

so, even if we have same frequency graph, the two iem can sound completely different

- For the acoustic phase to be flat for perfection, thats also kinda half true and half false
humans are more sensitive to dynamic phase shift rather than constant and brain can filter it out, so we have to only make sure that the phase doesnt lead to frequency cancellation. Having a flat phase has only very specific advantage that it causes less fatique over longer listening session

About the iems I posted for bass I don't believe you have eq them , had them or tested. have you realy heard them ?

Are expensive bro . What job are you doing ?
I always trade or sell and buy new iems .
That's how I do it .

The imr acoustics all of them have amazing bass . They have the BEST 15mm DDs for bass in the market right now . Are also meh... . Really now ?
The Sony meh ? Mdr ex800st- mdr ex 1000 are also meh... ?
All iems are meh ... ?
The Atlas is my favorite iem . Because is very small, straight wearing , amazing bass and amazing sound. For me the Atlas is reference

Why you don't post your opinion in the basshead iem thread to see the answers you'll get. ?
You aren't a basshead and that's for sure. This impossible for someone who loves bass or someone who wants the best to say those iems are meh... which is the best iem for bass for you ? I want to understand what you like ?

The dynamic drivers aren't only powerful and thundering on bass but also more natural than BAs.
But like I said I like both of them .


I want to buy and I will buy some iems for sure.
I can't make diy iem for now to sound like those . Is impossible. They have 1000 peoples who work on iems daily , are manufacturers, designers etc , etc .

Can you build better iems than those ?
Post me some of your work please , I want to see .

I do diy because I never found the perfect iem for me . I'm still looking for it .

What music do you listen and I'll tell you if you are basshead.
I listen only to , hip hop, dance, electro, deep house, G house, some pop and I test bass iems with Dabstep .

I prefer to have in my house dual SVS pb 16 ultra subs than bookshelf speakers for bass .
..........................................................................
About the theory.
Do you believe you learn me something new ?

I don't need to understand everything . No one in this world needs.
Is like you say , go to university to learn coding and then you can create Microsoft.
..............................................................................
We don't need to say again the same things .
For the cap parallel forget it .
Isn't possible to fix it with tube lenght because is no SPACE in the shell.
It MAY be possible with caps- resistors only .
Can you fix phase issue or driver acoustic cancelations with only resistors and caps ?
Only here you can help me elsewhere you can't really help me @dhruvmeena96

 

[Max spl]

Does anyone have the calibration file for the chinese 711? My seller is slow to send it...

You don't need any calibration file for the 711 .
Did you bought the soundcard they sell for the 711 because is calibrated with the soundcard. You can calibrate with REW . See tutorial on YouTube.

 

[Xymordos]

Does anyone have the calibration file for the chinese 711? My seller is slow to send it...

The Chinese IEC711 should be plug and play with the sound card from the same shop.

 

[dhruvmeena96]

About the iems I posted for bass I don't believe you have eq them , had them or tested. have you realy heard them ?

Are expensive bro . What job are you doing ?
I always trade or sell and buy new iems .
That's how I do it .

The imr acoustics all of them have amazing bass . They have the BEST 15mm DDs for bass in the market right now . Are also meh... . Really now ?
The Sony meh ? Mdr ex800st- mdr ex 1000 are also meh... ?
All iems are meh ... ?
The Atlas is my favorite iem . Because is very small, straight wearing , amazing bass and amazing sound. For me the Atlas is reference

Why you don't post your opinion in the basshead iem thread to see the answers you'll get. ?
You aren't a basshead and that's for sure. This impossible for someone who loves bass or someone who wants the best to say those iems are meh... which is the best iem for bass for you ? I want to understand what you like ?

The dynamic drivers aren't only powerful and thundering on bass but also more natural than BAs.
But like I said I like both of them .


I want to buy and I will buy some iems for sure.
I can't make diy iem for now to sound like those . Is impossible. They have 1000 peoples who work on iems daily , are manufacturers, designers etc , etc .

Can you build better iems than those ?
Post me some of your work please , I want to see .

I do diy because I never found the perfect iem for me . I'm still looking for it .

What music do you listen and I'll tell you if you are basshead.
I listen only to , hip hop, dance, electro, deep house, G house, some pop and I test bass iems with Dabstep .

I prefer to have in my house dual SVS pb 16 ultra subs than bookshelf speakers for bass .
..........................................................................
About the theory.
Do you believe you learn me something new ?

I don't need to understand everything . No one in this world needs.
Is like you say , go to university to learn coding and then you can create Microsoft.
..............................................................................
We don't need to say again the same things .
For the cap parallel forget it .
Isn't possible to fix it with tube lenght because is no SPACE in the shell.
It MAY be possible with caps- resistors only .
Can you fix phase issue or driver acoustic cancelations with only resistors and caps ?
Only here you can help me elsewhere you can't really help me @dhruvmeena96

First of all, burn in doesnt really change a lot on measurements like impulse and decay
its a brain thing because if the modern speaker are changing their sound even after tight tolerance of 10%, then whats the use of those +/-10% accuracy

read carefully, Sony is okayish

also, well, i may not be basshead like you or anyone else, i am more of balance guy... i love my bass till its not ruining my mids(i have heard and designed iem with basshelf at 200Hz while going beyond 15dB of bass)

all the campfire and all the bassy iems bass goes all the way to mids and thats what i hate... and i hate when its done on DD, because it just doesnt perform well
all the campfires and all the Acoustone and IMR sounds fat, muddy and bloated mess to me rather than bassy and well extended

dont get me wrong, i think you have not heard a really good bassy iem

lets talk about Atlas shall we

see carefully, the bass rise from 1kHz
and its going to 15dB

as perceived volume to dB law
every 3dB leads to double the perceived volume
so
lets take 1kHz to 400Hz
400Hz is double as loud
then 200Hz is double as loud
making 200hz ... 4 times louder than 1khz
where human most sensitive hearing range is 100Hz to 1kHz, where he makes sense of fundamental tone like speech fundamentals etc
its already messing it up
and then wrong fundamental pinna which messes up timbre as well

i dont know why you like this
it may wow you initially and then its meh


Odin and Z1R are the greatest basshead iem

meanwhile this iem(craft ears craft 6 custom) may be bass lean, it is hailed as one of the best bass heard on BA, even outpacing DD in what DD does and BA in what BA does.. you can read reviews on it
and this guy came from this thread itself and made an iem, which outpaced Tia driver on treble
https://www.craftears.com/products/model-ce6/



what i want to tell you is
keep your basshead hobby, but respect 200Hz to 1kHz flatness and proper uppermid pinna gain so atleast iem sound realsitic

also, i am using dayton ultimax 12 subwoofer


about my listening taste:
Metroboomin, Daft punk, Mondo Grosso, Eminem, Kanye west, Travis Scott, 21 Savage, Hans Zimmer, Borislav Slavov etc
i dont listen to trance and dub step

now,,,, well, my work
its so much lost in this tread that even i cannot find it where it all started. Other works i keep myself because i dont feel they deem worthy sharing
i only share stuff which is cheap to make, easy to make and is worthwhile

RAB-P series (for RAB driver)
MASM series (have almost 10 iteration and then further design updates as we go along)

i am working on a cheap, reliable bassy but realistic tuning iem


if you need really shot down in your throat bass while having perfect uppermids and realism and have big enough shell

why dont you try the hardest build by @piotrus-g
the dual CI and TWFK
its still considered advanced build but those dual CI will shake you to the core and then more while not mudying like Atlas and polaris

its still a lot of bass, and i prefer leaking it as it still colours a lot of mids, but it has faster impulse than DD and is not muddy, just a bit more towards bloat on song
i would say, modify it like -3dB on bass and its a very nice V shape bass oriented iem

 

[Max spl]

@dhruvmeena96 I swear , I came back to this thread 3 times.

@Aldo40 I was trying to hide who am I but you got me very fast .

I wanted to give up with diy iems many times but I simply can't. I love this hobby and I'll continue trying to make the absolute basshead iem with BAs for sure.

I never get you wrong and don't also get me wrong , We simply disagree in many things. We have different opinions , we think different but I learned from you guys helpful things , tips and tricks.
No matter if I'm a basshead or not .

General information about iems shells.
About 3d Printing shells I'm still a noob . It simply takes a lot of time for me to design tubes inside a shell and is difficult for me to make perfect universal iem shapes ( I like to share my iem builds ) One friend helps me with iem shells but aren't perfect.
Once I have a perfect universal stl file I'll post of course.

@dhruvmeena96
Now for the Atlas i like it a lot. Graphs doesn't show everything , All iems are source dependable , which dac/amp plays a role.
The output impedance - power output also. The ibasso dx220 have the best bass separation , output impedance and sound for me for example.

Atlas is my favorite iem because it is small and I don't want to look like a musician when I walk around or in the gym. For Diy iems I don't care how they look but only how they sound. The atlas It doesn't mute everything, is very very good iem and many will agree with it . I don't want to build with dual CIs , are too big in size and I don't like how they sound.
Like I said for me atlas is reference sounding with impressive dynamic sound and bass for a single DD.

I want to have also a flat response from 200hz to 1khz but I want a bass shelf with 9 db boost at 30 hz and boosted extended highs. 2389D is the best mid driver for me, I'll add 2x 2389D in my next build for sure.

Single DD iems can't have a perfect Bass shelf because are SINGLE DDs.
That's why you see everywhere this kind of bass shelf. For a single DD to have a perfect bass shelf , flat mids and extended highs is impossible at least for now.
The companies who make hybrid iems and sound worse than airpods pro and charge twice the price are completely noobs.
Imr acoustics have like I said the best 15mm bass drivers in the market .
Are also noobs when it comes to sound tuning. Have a lots of harsh treble for me .

No I don't listen to trance music. I hate trance. Dubstep is the best music for me ONLY for testing bass response . If I achieve to make Dabstep music to sound amazing on bass then I have reached my goal

 

[Max spl]

BTW headfi have a great community but when it comes to postings doesn't let me delete a post and when I want to correct something it shows edited even after 2 mins I simply hatte it.

 

[kkugel]

The Chinese IEC711 should be plug and play with the sound card from the same shop.

Didn't buy the sound card but turns out the chinese 711 is plug and play with the apple 3.5mm dongle too...nice!