[Deezel177]

Thank you for the rec's. Love your review on the Satin Audio Griffin and Chimera. Very informative and really liked the comparisons with EA Ares II. Learned quite a bit as a newbie. I think they are pretty light and thin too based on your review? Curious about your thoughts on Satin Audio ones vs FiR Audio and PlusSound X series if possible.

Thanks! Satin Audio cables were indeed thin and light, but the FiR Audio and PlusSound ones are even more so; the former because of smaller conductors and the latter because they have half the wire count. I'll have a review of FiR Audio's SPC cable coming soon with very brief, passing comparisons against the Satin Audio Griffin. One thing to note is that FiR Audio's insulation is a tad more chalky/rubbery, so it won't necessarily feel as smooth as the Satin Audio or PlusSound cables. But again, the trade-off is in the FiR Audio cable's lower price point and lighter ergonomics. I don't know what PlusSound's X cables sound like myself, so I'd direct you towards @Wyville's reviews of those cables. This one's for the GPC version: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/plussound-x-series-iem-cable.21922/reviews#review-22112

 

[dfung]

triton 4 wire occ 26 awg teflon jacket. Not the most supple, but nice and thin. Furthermore, skin oils don't seem to make it harder over time (which I've noticed happens to lots of other cables). he has a 24.5 awg litz variant that is softer, but it is nowhere as thin, and may be prone to stiffening because it's TPU jacket. something to consider if using it for exercise.

http://tritonaudiocables.com/Triton4-OCC-Cable_p_22.html

he'll do custom lengths as well. Turn around time is stupid fast. actually, check the inventory online, he may have a "bluetooth" sized cable for armband attachment.

Thanks for the rec! Good to know the difference between teflon and TPU. I'm waiting for the BTR5. Would it be wise to get that first than to buy a cable to know which connection type being used? (Sorry. Very newb to this)

 

[dfung]

Thanks! Satin Audio cables were indeed thin and light, but the FiR Audio and PlusSound ones are even more so; the former because of smaller conductors and the latter because they have half the wire count. I'll have a review of FiR Audio's SPC cable coming soon with very brief, passing comparisons against the Satin Audio Griffin. One thing to note is that FiR Audio's insulation is a tad more chalky/rubbery, so it won't necessarily feel as smooth as the Satin Audio or PlusSound cables. But again, the trade-off is in the FiR Audio cable's lower price point and lighter ergonomics. I don't know what PlusSound's X cables sound like myself, so I'd direct you towards @Wyville's reviews of those cables. This one's for the GPC version: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/plussound-x-series-iem-cable.21922/reviews#review-22112

This is great. Thanks! I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of flexibility, lightness, and convenience for better sound.
I was leaning on the Satin Audio Griffin until you've mentioned FiR Audio and PlusSound. So I look forward to your review!
I see you pick FiR's SPC to compare instead of the pure copper, is it because it's 8 wire?
Newb question if you don't mind - There are other posters here say 8 wire is superior to 4 wire because 8 wire has a wider sound stage with superior vocal and instrumental placement (paraphasing)
And copper wire helps balance out 'bright' IEMs that are high treble with more pronounced bass?

 

[Deezel177]

This is great. Thanks! I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of flexibility, lightness, and convenience for better sound.
I was leaning on the Satin Audio Griffin until you've mentioned FiR Audio and PlusSound. So I look forward to your review!
I see you pick FiR's SPC to compare instead of the pure copper, is it because it's 8 wire?
Newb question if you don't mind - There are other posters here say 8 wire is superior to 4 wire because 8 wire has a wider sound stage with superior vocal and instrumental placement (paraphasing)
And copper wire helps balance out 'bright' IEMs that are high treble with more pronounced bass?

I chose the Griffin to compare it against mostly because they were both entry-level upgrade cables; the first step up from your stock cable. Funnily enough, the FiR Audio cable - the Scorpion, it's called - is the more "copper-like" of the two. It's thick-sounding, low-end- and low-mid-emphasised, and full-bodied. On the other hand, the Griffin is only slightly warm in tone, but very even-handed and balanced throughout. It makes an IEM's bass response much tighter and less pronounced. So, if you have a brighter IEM that you want to tone down and make meatier, the Scorpion is the better choice in my opinion. The Griffin is ideal if you want to reduce the boominess of an IEM's bass without altering its tone or warmth too much.

In my experience, the difference between a 4- and 8-wire cable is in headroom and space. It's not that the stage expands and instruments became more fanned out or distant. The instruments remain mostly the same in size and distance from the listener, but there's now more space between and around them. The analogy I typically use is, "It's the same band playing on stage, but they're now in a bigger venue." It's a more free-sounding presentation that doesn't require as much concentration from you to discern all the little details. As a result, smaller nuances come through more effortlessly and the sound isn't as claustrophobic, even at louder volumes. And, since you're not bombarded with in-your-face instruments all the time, your brain now has more bandwidth to locate each element in their respective locations. This is where the superior instrumental placement comes from, I think.

 

[Wyville]

This is great. Thanks! I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of flexibility, lightness, and convenience for better sound.
I was leaning on the Satin Audio Griffin until you've mentioned FiR Audio and PlusSound. So I look forward to your review!
I see you pick FiR's SPC to compare instead of the pure copper, is it because it's 8 wire?
Newb question if you don't mind - There are other posters here say 8 wire is superior to 4 wire because 8 wire has a wider sound stage with superior vocal and instrumental placement (paraphasing)
And copper wire helps balance out 'bright' IEMs that are high treble with more pronounced bass?

The number of wires is just one aspect of it, the thickness of the wire is another. A lot of the 8-wire cables around here are 26 AWG (American Wire Gauge), which makes them quite thick. It also depends on the insulation they use and how the cable is braided, as the FiR cable looks thinner overall (from picture, I have not seen the cable myself).

For training the PlusSound X-series could be really interesting. It is a very thin cable because it has only two wires and the GPC I reviewed (and @Deezel177 kindly linked to) did not sound any less than the 4-wire cables I have tried. Plus, you can choose a variety of materials for the cable and PlusSound offer lots of customisation options.

FiR might be interesting as well, as the cable was designed for on-stage use and looks like it is very light. Things like the Y-split can add a surprising amount of weight to the cable and that will start pulling while you are running. A shirt clip will help there, but once your shirt gets wet you might end up constantly re-adjusting. (Mind you, I am quite OCD when I run and everything needs to be perfect. )

 

[buonassi]

Thanks for the rec! Good to know the difference between teflon and TPU. I'm waiting for the BTR5. Would it be wise to get that first than to buy a cable to know which connection type being used? (Sorry. Very newb to this)

I think the BTR5 (aka M5) only has 3.5mm phone/line out. https://www.fiio.com/m5_parameters

But I guess you'll have to decide if you want a right angle or straight plug.

 

[Deezel177]

The number of wires is just one aspect of it, the thickness of the wire is another. A lot of the 8-wire cables around here are 26 AWG (American Wire Gauge), which makes them quite thick. It also depends on the insulation they use and how the cable is braided, as the FiR cable looks thinner overall (from picture, I have not seen the cable myself).

For training the PlusSound X-series could be really interesting. It is a very thin cable because it has only two wires and the GPC I reviewed (and @Deezel177 kindly linked to) did not sound any less than the 4-wire cables I have tried. Plus, you can choose a variety of materials for the cable and PlusSound offer lots of customisation options.

FiR might be interesting as well, as the cable was designed for on-stage use and looks like it is very light. Things like the Y-split can add a surprising amount of weight to the cable and that will start pulling while you are running. A shirt clip will help there, but once your shirt gets wet you might end up constantly re-adjusting. (Mind you, I am quite OCD when I run and everything needs to be perfect. )

@Wyville raises a very good point here in that it's not only the wire count that matters. The PS, FiR and Satin Audio cables are all 26 AWG, but the insulation they use are all different. Although there's no guarantee as to how that'll affect the sound, it is the reason behind the FiR cable's lightness, flexibility and feel. It also reminds me of a point I forgot to make on my previous post. The difference between a 4- and 8-wire cable is usually as I had described. But, there can definitely be exceptions to the rule. For example, the 8-wire Effect Audio Leonidas II became fuller-sounding and more impactful, which is the opposite of the expected outcome.

 

[dfung]

I chose the Griffin to compare it against mostly because they were both entry-level upgrade cables; the first step up from your stock cable. Funnily enough, the FiR Audio cable - the Scorpion, it's called - is the more "copper-like" of the two. It's thick-sounding, low-end- and low-mid-emphasised, and full-bodied. On the other hand, the Griffin is only slightly warm in tone, but very even-handed and balanced throughout. It makes an IEM's bass response much tighter and less pronounced. So, if you have a brighter IEM that you want to tone down and make meatier, the Scorpion is the better choice in my opinion. The Griffin is ideal if you want to reduce the boominess of an IEM's bass without altering its tone or warmth too much.

Thanks a bunch for this quick comparison!
Will definitely consider the Scorpion as I have a pair of rather bright IEMs. Want to get the low end and low-mid emphasized like you said.
This topic on copper also prompts another question out of curiosity if you don't mind - What's your experience on the difference between silver plated copper and pure OCC copper?

In my experience, the difference between a 4- and 8-wire cable is in headroom and space. It's not that the stage expands and instruments became more fanned out or distant. The instruments remain mostly the same in size and distance from the listener, but there's now more space between and around them. The analogy I typically use is, "It's the same band playing on stage, but they're now in a bigger venue." It's a more free-sounding presentation that doesn't require as much concentration from you to discern all the little details. As a result, smaller nuances come through more effortlessly and the sound isn't as claustrophobic, even at louder volumes. And, since you're not bombarded with in-your-face instruments all the time, your brain now has more bandwidth to locate each element in their respective locations. This is where the superior instrumental placement comes from, I think.

@Wyville raises a very good point here in that it's not only the wire count that matters. The PS, FiR and Satin Audio cables are all 26 AWG, but the insulation they use are all different. Although there's no guarantee as to how that'll affect the sound, it is the reason behind the FiR cable's lightness, flexibility and feel. It also reminds me of a point I forgot to make on my previous post. The difference between a 4- and 8-wire cable is usually as I had described. But, there can definitely be exceptions to the rule. For example, the 8-wire Effect Audio Leonidas II became fuller-sounding and more impactful, which is the opposite of the expected outcome.

Another much appreciated detailed explanation. I find this kind of info is hard to come by.
One point I find that would welcome clarification - We're technically talking about the higher number of cores generally leading to more headroom and space?
Because I've been assuming 1 core = 1 wire until I've read @Wyville's review which the GPC interestingly fit 7 cores into 2 wires. It still had a wide sound stage and nice amount of air as mentioned in his review.
So how I'm interpreting this is it's dependent on the number of cores, not necessarily number of wires.
Please correct me if I'm wrong where cores affect the sound differently than wires.

 

[dfung]

The number of wires is just one aspect of it, the thickness of the wire is another. A lot of the 8-wire cables around here are 26 AWG (American Wire Gauge), which makes them quite thick. It also depends on the insulation they use and how the cable is braided, as the FiR cable looks thinner overall (from picture, I have not seen the cable myself).

For training the PlusSound X-series could be really interesting. It is a very thin cable because it has only two wires and the GPC I reviewed (and @Deezel177 kindly linked to) did not sound any less than the 4-wire cables I have tried. Plus, you can choose a variety of materials for the cable and PlusSound offer lots of customisation options.

FiR might be interesting as well, as the cable was designed for on-stage use and looks like it is very light. Things like the Y-split can add a surprising amount of weight to the cable and that will start pulling while you are running. A shirt clip will help there, but once your shirt gets wet you might end up constantly re-adjusting. (Mind you, I am quite OCD when I run and everything needs to be perfect. )

Thanks! So that's what AWG means. Good to know that insulation and how it's braided should be considered.
The GPC has aluminum Y splitters. Hope that reduces weight.
(I'm like that myself when I run. Everything has to be in place and order before I start. )
It would be great if there was a review between FiR's Scorpian vs PlusSound's GPC.
The GPC's cheapest option with just copper is equally compelling at $150.
Difficult choices to make here....

 

[dfung]

triton 4 wire occ 26 awg teflon jacket. Not the most supple, but nice and thin. Furthermore, skin oils don't seem to make it harder over time (which I've noticed happens to lots of other cables). he has a 24.5 awg litz variant that is softer, but it is nowhere as thin, and may be prone to stiffening because it's TPU jacket. something to consider if using it for exercise.

http://tritonaudiocables.com/Triton4-OCC-Cable_p_22.html

he'll do custom lengths as well. Turn around time is stupid fast. actually, check the inventory online, he may have a "bluetooth" sized cable for armband attachment.

Would you happen to have a review on these Triton cables you can link to?
Would like to compare the details of their sound to others mentioned here to make an informed decision...

I think the BTR5 (aka M5) only has 3.5mm phone/line out. https://www.fiio.com/m5_parameters

But I guess you'll have to decide if you want a right angle or straight plug.

What makes you say that? I'm curious. I briefly compared the basic specs between the M5 and the BTR5 - Besides the two having the same bluetooth chip. They have different DAC chips and output impedance. The BTR5 has a balanced 2.5mm output and a 3.5mm single ended output.

 

[Wyville]

Thanks! So that's what AWG means. Good to know that insulation and how it's braided should be considered.
The GPC has aluminum Y splitters. Hope that reduces weight.
(I'm like that myself when I run. Everything has to be in place and order before I start. )
It would be great if there was a review between FiR's Scorpian vs PlusSound's GPC.
The GPC's cheapest option with just copper is equally compelling at $150.
Difficult choices to make here....

The X-Series y-split is indeed quite light and should not give any problems while running. I had considered buying the Final E5000 for training and replacing its cable with an X-Series because I think it would work perfectly for me. Never got around to it, as I have been happy with the stock E4000.

 

[mvvRAZ]

On the topic of FiR, the cable is very thin (as thin as some of my 4-wires), feels great to use, no microphonics or any issues with the ergonomics either. My only negative would be the look, as I really like those thick 8 wires, whereas the FiR cable is more function over vanity.

I am placing an order for two Silver + Gold Poetic Series from Plussound today, and it should be here in a little over 2 weeks, so I can comment on those then. They're supposed to be really, really durable so it might fit your needs

 

[Deezel177]

Thanks a bunch for this quick comparison!
Will definitely consider the Scorpion as I have a pair of rather bright IEMs. Want to get the low end and low-mid emphasized like you said.
This topic on copper also prompts another question out of curiosity if you don't mind - What's your experience on the difference between silver plated copper and pure OCC copper?






Another much appreciated detailed explanation. I find this kind of info is hard to come by.
One point I find that would welcome clarification - We're technically talking about the higher number of cores generally leading to more headroom and space?
Because I've been assuming 1 core = 1 wire until I've read @Wyville's review which the GPC interestingly fit 7 cores into 2 wires. It still had a wide sound stage and nice amount of air as mentioned in his review.
So how I'm interpreting this is it's dependent on the number of cores, not necessarily number of wires.
Please correct me if I'm wrong where cores affect the sound differently than wires.

Well, regarding OCC v. SPC copper, it’s really difficult to say. For one thing, I have very little experience with SPC cables. But, more importantly, it’s really difficult to nail down sound to just the materials. For example, I’ve heard both bright- and warm-sounding copper cables, and the same goes for silver, silver-plated gold, etc. I think it’s a lot more important to look at the bigger picture than just the materials.

With regards to core count or wire count, it is a common misconception. I too have only recently learned about the distinction between the two. Inside a single Litz wire are groups of tiny conductors wrapped around an insulator. The insulator can be cotton-based, Kevlar, etc. Then, inside each group are tiny wires wrapped around a core. It's akin to many cells making tissue, and tissue making muscle, etc. Since the GPC wires that PlusSound use are Type 6 Litz, there are seven groups (and therefore, seven cores) inside each wire wrapped around the insulator. I believe Effect Audio have six or seven groups as well inside their latest releases, and they've taken it a step further by altering the number and size of the strands of wire inside those groups. So yeah, there's a lot you can do with cables.

On the topic of FiR, the cable is very thin (as thin as some of my 4-wires), feels great to use, no microphonics or any issues with the ergonomics either. My only negative would be the look, as I really like those thick 8 wires, whereas the FiR cable is more function over vanity.

I am placing an order for two Silver + Gold Poetic Series from Plussound today, and it should be here in a little over 2 weeks, so I can comment on those then. They're supposed to be really, really durable so it might fit your needs

Yup, function over form is something I mention in my Scorpion review.

 

[mvvRAZ]

Well, regarding OCC v. SPC copper, it’s really difficult to say. For one thing, I have very little experience with SPC cables. But, more importantly, it’s really difficult to nail down sound to just the materials. For example, I’ve heard both bright- and warm-sounding copper cables, and the same goes for silver, silver-plated gold, etc. I think it’s a lot more important to look at the bigger picture than just the materials.

With regards to core count or wire count, it is a common misconception. I too have only recently learned about the distinction between the two. Inside a single Litz wire are groups of tiny conductors wrapped around an insulator. The insulator can be cotton-based, Kevlar, etc. Then, inside each group are tiny wires wrapped around a core. It's akin to many cells making tissue, and tissue making muscle, etc. Since the GPC wires that PlusSound use are Type 6 Litz, there are seven groups (and therefore, seven cores) inside each wire wrapped around the insulator. I believe Effect Audio have six or seven groups as well inside their latest releases, and they've taken it a step further by altering the number and size of the strands of wire inside those groups. So yeah, there's a lot you can do with cables.



Yup, function over form is something I mention in my Scorpion review.

On a side note, your review of the X8 silver + gold is making me really hate you.... Your impressions of IEMs and products tend to be quite consistent with mine and that cable at that price is looking rather great.

Have you had the chance to play around with any of the Forza Audioworks cables? I have a few from them and absolutely love them, absolutely exceptional at a rather silly low price - I am receiving an 8 wire Silver and Copper fusion next week, at a price of 250 euros. The regular 4 wire version is around 160 if I remember right and that sounds at least as good as the Eros II if not better. Ergonomics are absolutely amazing too, some of the finest build quality I've had the chance of experiencing

 

[Deezel177]

On a side note, your review of the X8 silver + gold is making me really hate you.... Your impressions of IEMs and products tend to be quite consistent with mine and that cable at that price is looking rather great.

Have you had the chance to play around with any of the Forza Audioworks cables? I have a few from them and absolutely love them, absolutely exceptional at a rather silly low price - I am receiving an 8 wire Silver and Copper fusion next week, at a price of 250 euros. The regular 4 wire version is around 160 if I remember right and that sounds at least as good as the Eros II if not better. Ergonomics are absolutely amazing too, some of the finest build quality I've had the chance of experiencing

Haha! I reviewed the Exo Silver+Gold, actually. The X8 was reviewed by our lovely @PinkyPowers. You have him to thank/blame. Forza were pretty big when I first started out in the hobby, but I haven't seen them in a while, unfortunately. I'll definitely check out what they're up to later.

Meanwhile, my FiR Audio Accessories Suite review (including the Scorpion) is up now on THL!

FiR Audio’s Accessory Suite – The Headphone VAC Jr., The Cable Tester and Scorpion Cable