[brams]

I just got my tws600 today and they sound pretty much as implied by @Brooko's measurements. Neutrally tuned, but that peak needs to be reduced. A slight slope up in the bass starting from about 200 hz down would have made a world of difference.

Hifiman make a big deal about break-in, even going so far as to include a separate card warning that a break-in period is required before maximum performance can be achieved. Even if this is true I cannot imagine it would change enough to fundamentally impact the signature. I suspect this will always be too bright to treat poorly recorded music kindly ... but I've definitely experienced strange things in this hobby which appear to defy logic!

Regardless, I'm putting my hopes on tip rolling and possibly EQ. Luckily I find the EQ on Poweramp running on the Fiio M11 to be quite effective.

 

[tinyman392]

Got mine today, still in the process of burning them in, I traditionally did 50 hours when I did reviews way back when. Initial impressions are that it's more or less a very neutral tuning with some really hot midrange which is bordering harsh. Besides that and wanting a little more body to the bass, I'm pretty happy with them. The signature is definitely very hot and polarizing though.

 

[Brooko]

I was a little cautious to mention the recommended burn in because I knew it could grow out of hand and go off topic. I’ll just mention my experience.

I build a lot of amps, preamps, head amps etc - believe me, I know how to test - and review and recall differences - I have thousand’s of hours of training my ears. My listening memory is very good. I’m aware of all different variables which can cause sound changes from the time of day you listen to amps (which could be caused by power changes throughout the day) to your mood (some say brain burning)

I listen to my same listening track list which is around an hour of varies different genres - I am able to hear differences in all types of components and I tune my builds on listening not measuring. Although I do also measure. I have found measuring can’t hear the subtle differences with component changes which can be the differences between good and great! One example is resisters changes. The circuit would be identical with a resistor change if the values are the same. Most cases the measurement of the amp or preamp would be the same. I’m able to hear the differences, for example, one resister could have a subtle grainy aspect to the sound which is used throughout the amp would have an impact! The other resister could be smooth and natural which would then give you a much more organic sounding amp which would measure the same.

When testing amps I always use my HD800’s as a listening tool.

With headphones - Yes I’ve volume matched in the past when doing A-B comparisons. A lot of the cases volume matching isn’t needed as the things I’m hearing is from Low to High listening volumes. Sometimes I listen and compare headphones at the listening volume which sounds best to my ear with that particular headphone in mind rather than match each headphone exactly. The reason being is its amp dependable also. Some headphones could sound better at lower volumes and some could sound better at higher volumes. Some headphones could give too little or high dynamics. Some headphones have a sweet spot in terms of volume in my opinion. I do match at a point in A-B comparisons. I then throw away the rule book and go with the volume that I naturally gravitate to which sounds best for the headphone I’m using. By the way, I also test each headphone with all different types of powered amps. (Some headphones require high current amps and some headphones require high or lower voltage amps to sound the best they can) I feel organically go with the volume you feel is the most natural way of listening to replicate the most normal listening circumstances rather than thinking too scientifically.

Good thing you don’t have to worry about these amp variables with the TWS600


Burn-in - I have lots of tests and stories - I’ll just give you one.

One example is my DT1350s - I got these in 2013 with my brother - we both got them the same day,

We did tests with a few friends and they sounded the same, tracks, amp, volume, 10sec swopping etc. Most liked the sound but we all came to the same conclusion! They sound bright! We both kept the DT1350 and listened for two months or so. I didn’t use mine much but my brother listened to his every day.

The next time I visited my brother two months later - I gave my bro’s DT1350 a try on his new amp. I was like wow these sound way different than mine - they have calmed down a lot - not harsh anymore and have more dynamics. I then grabbed for my bag, got mine out and did some A-B’ing (I was 100% correct) My bro also confirmed this with his tests, it didn’t matter about the new amp - mine still was bright.

PS. One of my friend who was at the original DT1350 listening tests (he hated them by the way!) a year later when my headphone was broken in, I let him listen again - He was crazy shocked! - they weren’t too bright anymore and he really likes them.

I won't take this any further - but if you interested in working through this, I can start a thread in Sound Science. Just PM me if you want to. I'll close with mentioning Shure again. They know.

 

[Brooko]

Used the TWS600 on a 5 hour car trip today (my wife was driving - she listens to her own music / we have differing tastes )

I'd buy these (because I EQ) - the freedom from wires and the fit and functionality are good. Without EQ though - nope. I hope HifiMan come out with a markII with better tuning (and a deeper container/charger).

Oh - one thing I forgot - quiet a bit of driver flex.

 

[brams]

Had a fairly long listening session last night and must say these have grown on me, partly due to a few tweaks and partly due to me getting more attuned to the signature.

My usual go-to Mandarines tips turned out to be too much of good thing: excellent bass and clear smooth treble, but they made the midrange so open that it just contributed to the glare. Spin-fits did a better job in terms of retaining the bass while reducing the upper midrange. I think this might be due to the Spin-fits postioning the driver a bit further out of the ear canal. The most obvious compromise was that the treble was just slightly less smooth/open than with the Symbios.

One thing I discovered is that twisting the earphones backward after insertion as recommended by Hifiman helped to tighten up the bass a bit. Another thing I noticed is that I was tending to listen at a way higher volume than is my normal. Despite the slight background noise that appears to be par for the course when using bluetooth earphones, perhaps these play cleaner than others I have tried and I did not realize how loud I was listening. Reducing the volume allowed the mids to fall back into better balanced.

When used in this way the glare was still evident, but not to the extent experienced before. More importantly the presentation became more intimate, pradoxically without losing the incredible spaciousness. The effect was somewhat like standing right next to the stage with the performer singing close by and surrounded by the band; excellent presentation with good vocal bands the likes of Joss Stone and the Isley Brothers. The bass initially appears to be lacking, but when called for is (mostly) there, fast and tight.

So these need some extra effort to work around their signature, but with the right music the results can be quite appealing. A decent first effort, but frustrating because a few slight tweaks would have made a world of difference.

As always YMMV.

 

[crabdog]

I've spent some time with the TWS600 today and I'm experiencing the same thing that others have reported.

It has a light n tight bass which normally would be fine with me were it not for the overcooked and shouty/shrill upper mids which really throw off the tonal balance. Very disappointing so far in terms of the sound. If anyone has tried the TRN X6 or seen my review of it then you can get an idea of how the TWS600 sounds.

As for the other aspects, connectivity and pairing are rock solid. Fit and comfort are good too. Good selection of tips and rock solid seal but all moot points when it sounds this bad.

 

[brams]

It bears repeating, these really do need a tight seal to sound even remotely acceptable. Without a proper seal when first inserted the sound is not good (thin and VERY bright, bordering on unlistenable with some material), but things improve quite a bit once a good seal is achieved.

Is anyone noticing any change in signature over time? I'm not sure I am, but for some reason these are sounding less objectionable to me. The peak is definitely still there, but seems less shrill ... if that makes sense. I've been playing with fit so that may be it. Also think I'm just getting used to the signature.

Warning: If your volume is set fairly high (on my Fiio M11 this is volume setting 50 on low gain) when adjusting the volume on the earphone when maximum volume is reached the resulting audible beep is QUITE loud. Be careful with your ears ...

 

[crabdog]

It bears repeating, these really do need a tight seal to sound even remotely acceptable. Without a proper seal when first inserted the sound is not good (thin and VERY bright, bordering on unlistenable with some material), but things improve quite a bit once a good seal is achieved.

Is anyone noticing any change in signature over time? I'm not sure I am, but for some reason these are sounding less objectionable to me. The peak is definitely still there, but seems less shrill ... if that makes sense. I've been playing with fit so that may be it. Also think I'm just getting used to the signature.

Warning: If your volume is set fairly high (on my Fiio M11 this is volume setting 50 on low gain) when adjusting the volume on the earphone when maximum volume is reached the resulting audible beep is QUITE loud. Be careful with your ears ...

That ^

I really do wish it was as simple as ensuring a tight seal but no. Just no.

 

[guido]

anyone compared them to the Havit G1s?

 

[combustion8]

I've had these for a few days and have been really struggling to find the perfect tips, settled with the complys. I'm mostly happy with the sound (even compared to my V shaped Sennheiser True's) but would love a tad more deep end.. perhaps there's a mod that could help these?

 

[tinyman392]

That ^

I really do wish it was as simple as ensuring a tight seal but no. Just no.

I told myself I wouldn't get into the convo about "burn in" or what causes it... I guess I'll jump in. I do have some relevance to the TWS600 though, skip to the last paragraph.

As you use a pair of tips more, they will change in shape and the silicone will become more pliable. This is strongly evident in the Etymotic tri-flange tips I use with my HF2 and ER3 as they become more and more ovular as they are used and eventually won't hold onto the IEM as well (either the seal becomes much stronger, the silicone gripping the IEM stretches, or both). Most tips I've used get softer as I use them more as well. Ear pads (for both on and over ear) will compress with time as well which changes the driver's distance and angle to one's ears. That and the foam will conform to your head better. Again, ear pads tended have different pliability as they got older. The part that creates a seal with your head/ear physically changes, and pretty drastically I might add.

There's also the hypothesis that our brain probably does adjust to the sound when you listen to the headphones more. However, just as quickly as it can get used to the signature, it can lose this if you were to not use the headphones for a while (say months or years). Though I've never seen one person claim their headphones sounded like they were fresh out of the box after not using them for a while. Especially with headphones that didn't have the best signature out of the box.

Then we get to the drivers which with dynamic drivers which move, flex, bend, etc. as they are used. You repeatedly do this and overtime its properties (mainly resistance to movement) will change. Mainly they may exhibit more give/flex (kind of like the silicone tips do).

Personally, I have no clue what causes people to perceive the sound of the headphone changing with time. It's quite a well documented effect. Though it has many, many variables in play, most of which are confounding as well. I've made my opinions about the brain getting used to the sound above, it probably does have an impact, but not as large of one as it you make it seem. Every time I've gotten new tips for my Etymotic headphones, the sound signature has changed slightly, so I feel like that's part of the equation at least. Though they are the only tip I have that tend to wear down to failure (no longer able to hold a seal). Despite this, to me anyways, they still don't sound like they're like new when I swap the tips (though I might be wrong with this since it is indeed subjective). I personally don't know what causes the perception of break in, but I would wager that there is more than one thing at play.

I also do remember an instance where I exchanged my ADDIEMs for a new pair, they let me keep the old tips (which I continued to use until the stem not longer held on to the IEM anymore). The new ones sounded completely different (like the previous ones I had when they were new) than the old ones but after about a week of use sounded like the old ones again. Granted all of this is indeed anecdotal which is why I stand by my statement that I don't know what causes it, but I hypothesize that there are multiple parts to the system and they all have some impact.

__________

Quick tip to try to help with the harshness of the signature is to actually test different tips and insertion depths. Try to find a tip that will both improve (or not change) the bass response and reduce the 4k spike (preferably both, but I'd personally preference the reduction of the 4k spike over the bass, but only to an extent). Additionally, for me anyways, a shallow insertion (that maintains a seal) instead of a deep insertion (that also maintains a seal) seemed to help with the 4k spike as well without aggravating bass response much. This had a larger effect than the tip selection (though tip selection did help as well). YMMV though as the tip selection and insertion depth is dependent on your physical ear's anatomy. Granted you'll never get rid of the 4k spike, but playing with different insertion depths can help at least make it more tolerable, maybe even become tolerable. I mainly talk about insertion depth because the harshness I hear sounds almost as if it were a bad resonance at the graphed 4k region (the last headphone I had that was nearly this bad was the first gen MEE A151 that I had). Adjusting the distance between your ear drum and the driver may help mitigate this.

I've had these for a few days and have been really struggling to find the perfect tips, settled with the complys. I'm mostly happy with the sound (even compared to my V shaped Sennheiser True's) but would love a tad more deep end.. perhaps there's a mod that could help these?

I kind of feel the same way actually. I do wish these had a bit more bass presence on them, maybe a little more body. In many ways I reminds me of how I remember the RE0's* bass response, runs in the family I guess.

*anyone remember these? They were my second or third "good" IEM I got when I first started this hobby and hold a place in my heart

 

[glassmonkey]

I told myself I wouldn't get into the convo about "burn in" or what causes it... I guess I'll jump in. I do have some relevance to the TWS600 though, skip to the last paragraph.

As you use a pair of tips more, they will change in shape and the silicone will become more pliable. This is strongly evident in the Etymotic tri-flange tips I use with my HF2 and ER3 as they become more and more ovular as they are used and eventually won't hold onto the IEM as well (either the seal becomes much stronger, the silicone gripping the IEM stretches, or both). Most tips I've used get softer as I use them more as well. Ear pads (for both on and over ear) will compress with time as well which changes the driver's distance and angle to one's ears. That and the foam will conform to your head better. Again, ear pads tended have different pliability as they got older. The part that creates a seal with your head/ear physically changes, and pretty drastically I might add.

There's also the hypothesis that our brain probably does adjust to the sound when you listen to the headphones more. However, just as quickly as it can get used to the signature, it can lose this if you were to not use the headphones for a while (say months or years). Though I've never seen one person claim their headphones sounded like they were fresh out of the box after not using them for a while. Especially with headphones that didn't have the best signature out of the box.

Then we get to the drivers which with dynamic drivers which move, flex, bend, etc. as they are used. You repeatedly do this and overtime its properties (mainly resistance to movement) will change. Mainly they may exhibit more give/flex (kind of like the silicone tips do).

Personally, I have no clue what causes people to perceive the sound of the headphone changing with time. It's quite a well documented effect. Though it has many, many variables in play, most of which are confounding as well. I've made my opinions about the brain getting used to the sound above, it probably does have an impact, but not as large of one as it you make it seem. Every time I've gotten new tips for my Etymotic headphones, the sound signature has changed slightly, so I feel like that's part of the equation at least. Though they are the only tip I have that tend to wear down to failure (no longer able to hold a seal). Despite this, to me anyways, they still don't sound like they're like new when I swap the tips (though I might be wrong with this since it is indeed subjective). I personally don't know what causes the perception of break in, but I would wager that there is more than one thing at play.

I also do remember an instance where I exchanged my ADDIEMs for a new pair, they let me keep the old tips (which I continued to use until the stem not longer held on to the IEM anymore). The new ones sounded completely different (like the previous ones I had when they were new) than the old ones but after about a week of use sounded like the old ones again. Granted all of this is indeed anecdotal which is why I stand by my statement that I don't know what causes it, but I hypothesize that there are multiple parts to the system and they all have some impact.

__________

Quick tip to try to help with the harshness of the signature is to actually test different tips and insertion depths. Try to find a tip that will both improve (or not change) the bass response and reduce the 4k spike (preferably both, but I'd personally preference the reduction of the 4k spike over the bass, but only to an extent). Additionally, for me anyways, a shallow insertion (that maintains a seal) instead of a deep insertion (that also maintains a seal) seemed to help with the 4k spike as well without aggravating bass response much. This had a larger effect than the tip selection (though tip selection did help as well). YMMV though as the tip selection and insertion depth is dependent on your physical ear's anatomy. Granted you'll never get rid of the 4k spike, but playing with different insertion depths can help at least make it more tolerable, maybe even become tolerable. I mainly talk about insertion depth because the harshness I hear sounds almost as if it were a bad resonance at the graphed 4k region (the last headphone I had that was nearly this bad was the first gen MEE A151 that I had). Adjusting the distance between your ear drum and the driver may help mitigate this.



I kind of feel the same way actually. I do wish these had a bit more bass presence on them, maybe a little more body. In many ways I reminds me of how I remember the RE0's* bass response, runs in the family I guess.

*anyone remember these? They were my second or third "good" IEM I got when I first started this hobby and hold a place in my heart

RE0 were great, I used them with some narrow bore tips to enhance bass. I still have mine, so could compare. I've had them since 2009.

I'm waiting for my TWS600 set to arrive via FedEx today.

I think that @Brooko has the right solution, EQ in some additional bass and drop the peaks.

 

[combustion8]

Would removing the filter help the tuning in these or would it just make it worse?

 

[Takeanidea]

So, I've got mine out of the box, and started to play. This is my 2nd time with the TWS600, having used them for a considerable time on a mini meet with Mark of Team Hifiman and @dill3000. Let me say off the bat; I found the TWS600 too shouty when I heard them first. I was therefore a little apprehensive when I started them up. I spent my time catching up with some of the Glastonbury highlights. There are 8 sets of tips included. They should have been in a little box of pairs in my opinion that would be added a touch of prestige to the proceedings. They were instead in a plastic bag and needed some sorting. The small bore silicon tips that were attached still had that harshness to them, especially when the sound was cranked up. Being that these isolate so well, of course, there shouldn't be any need to have them up very loud.
I tried all I sets of tips, quickly discarding the triple flange ones because that lit simply wouldn't fit into my ears. I got rid of the treble peak with a set of the smallest triple flanges, but at the expense of getting rid of some of the bass and much of the detail. I finally settled on the 2nd size up of the small bore silicon tips on both left and right ear. As Hifiman point out in the booklet, you might need a different size tip for each ear to het the best results.
I achieved a decent linear type bass response with a wide soundstage using my preference, and provided I didn't try to suck out an extra few (unwarranted) decibels out of what is, as we are all aware, a lossy format, I was entirely relieved and pretty chuffed with the results.
HiFiMan have a reputation to uphold with the kit that they bring out to the audiophile community and it was a big move on their part to jump in so early in the TWS' formative period. I'm pleased to say, in my opinion, that they've not tarnished their reputation with these.
My opinion? Take the measurements with a pinch of salt, go out and try these if you're interested and like the normal Hifiman range, do some tip rolling and ENJOY

 

[Dobrescu George]

So my experiences that are different from what has been mentioned:

- My pair has quite enough space inside the case, but I only use silicone tips

- I think they are bright and kinda midrange forward-ish, but the texture isn't harsh. I agree that they're a unique tuning. They respond extremely well to EQ, and since I also have something like the Hiby Player app on my phone with which I was doing tests, I was able to EQ the HIFIMAN TWS600 a LOT and get them to sound exactly as I wanted.

- I don't have driver flex and I tested for it. But I have a bit of void, so I recommend inserting and taking them out slowly.

Overall, I think they're a nice counter offering to True Wireless IEMs that are bassy . Unique but enjoyable for what it is