[helloh3adfi]

So I opened my shipment from Hifiman looking forward to listen to my new Susvara. Although feeling something was off as the box was smaller and much lighter than expected, and the box having marker on it saying 'Susvara Cable'. So I'm thinking maybe this must be the free cable that came with the promo, but weird they only gave me one tracking id??

Low and behold, I open the box to find a SUNDARA headset ><

Yayy.....................................................................................

Sundara's almost the same. You just need to eq them. . No, this really sucks. I hope they will find a good solution and return the shipping costs as well.

 

[Merkurio]

It's interesting because I've also dived deep into psychoacoustics, particularly neuroscience and how our brain responds to auditory input, as well as gear design, and the result of all that research is that I went the opposite way as you. For me, EQ was that "holy grail" rabbit hole that I went down for a long time. After all, how do I know that my current EQ preset is optimal for my ears and preference? What if I adjusted this band or that band, could I make my EQ even better? I found that I spent more time adjusting my EQ profiles than actually enjoying music. I have the Qudelix 5K too, but I've stopped using it or its EQ capabilities. These days, if I cannot use dynamic EQ (like FabFilter Pro Q 3), I'd rather use no EQ at all.

I don't know what to tell you; for me, it's clear when an EQ preset sounds right at the moment the headphone's tonal balance falls within the threshold of my HRTF preferences, it doesn't have to be something exact because even preference sound targets research (like Harman) sets starting points or guidelines rather than absolutes, as we all have different anatomies and listening preferences.

The way I refine this whole EQ process at personal level occurs when I sweeping through frequencies using tone generators after starting from a certain target, then confirming results with pink noise and indulging in a diverse selection of my favorite music, music that I've had the pleasure of listening to on flat studio monitors in ideal reflective conditions for years. Hence, I have a certain reference for what neutral sound is, acknowledging the differences in how our bodies perceive sound from speakers in an open acoustic space versus headphones (which is why it will never be a serious comparison to equate a live concert experience with that of transducers reproducing a signal generated in the studio).

Be that as it may, as I mentioned earlier, it's a one-time process for the headphones I've owned. Therefore, it's not something I'm willing to readjust (or obsess over), especially when I could use that time to listen to a new album every day, or cook up something delicious!

 

[up late]

^ as this thread is about the susvara, i was wondering if you've tried it and if so, what you think of it

 

[Merkurio]

^ as this thread is about the susvara, i was wondering if you've tried it and if so, what you think of it

Sure, I tried them a few years ago at what is now called For Ears Only (formerly The Audio Video Boutique?) in Vegas, along with other flagship models of that time, including the Audeze LCD4, an Abyss model I can't recall, Focal Utopia, and the "mighty" Stax SR009 (the latter connected to a Blue Hawaii).

Interestingly, I think that experience was a turning point in how I view the hobby, as I didn't perceive any transformative experience compared to other things I had already owned or tried before, including a friend's original HD800 in the "high-end" space.

I can't speak authoritatively, having passed so much time and spent so little time listening to each one, but I do remember that both the Susvara and the Utopia left the best impression on me (and the SR-009 was the most disappointing, perhaps due to the high expectations I had back then and my limited experience with electrostatics).

In hindsight, I wouldn't say I prefer any of them to much more affordable options I've had recently (like my EQ'd HE400se), but it's a comparison lacking in value and rigor.

 

[up late]

auditory memory can be unreliable but thanks anyway for sharing your impressions and getting the thread back on track

 

[OCC7N]

I walked into this hobby knowing I wanted to enjoy music on a higher level. Did not know I was going to experience my placebo on a higher level. When people I know, ask me what to listen for in a DAC/AMP/HEAPHONE, I tell them "your own curiosity"

Susvara does so many things, only a minority will appreciate or understand it. I totally understand those who sells it for their own reasons. I don´t feel special either because I appreciate this headphone.

The best thing about this journey is when you really find something that just works. No thoughts. Simply Music. The chain feels like "one"

The reason I love this hobby. Crafting the chain, to explore the curiosity. All the money spent is worth it!

 

[timsams]

Honestly, headphones can be a hit or miss with the individuals HRTF. Abyss is thin and shouty, Arya is very soft, LCDXC is un-listenable... I heard the opposite on reviews but I don't blame them.

ASR goal on headphones is to know if a headphones fit the vast majority of people. But we are a niche of very hardcore enjoyers that doesn't want a mainstream sound signature. It really doesn't surprise me that ASR doesn't recommend what most audiophile like. So it doesn't change my mind if it measures bad or not. Can't wait his review on my other best headphones, the D8000pro that will hit clipping at 114dB for sure.

For untrained listener, the Susvara is wayyyy overkill. You need to climb the ladder to understand what is does so special. Handle it to a family member and he will say it's nice but that's it.

For AMP and DAC measurements, I find ASR conclusions to be exact, but it's another debate

 

[Leporello]

For untrained listener, the Susvara is wayyyy overkill. You need to climb the ladder to understand what is does so special. Handle it to a family member and he will say it's nice but that's it.

If climbing the ladder or special training is needed to appreciate a headphone it very often means that the sound is in some way badly distorted and/or with wonky frequency response that only a select few are then able to listen to it. Alternatively the difference is vanishingly small. Curiously enough, quite a few audiophiles actually take pride in this.

 

[OCC7N]

If climbing the ladder or special training is needed to appreciate a headphone it very often means that the sound is in some way badly distorted and/or with wonky frequency response that only a select few are then able to listen to it. Alternatively the difference is vanishingly small. Curiously enough, quite a few audiophiles actually take pride in this.

You are definitely not a musician or a music producer. I assume

EDIT: Don´t take this literally, but read between the lines

 

[helloh3adfi]

For untrained listener, the Susvara is wayyyy overkill. You need to climb the ladder to understand what is does so special. Handle it to a family member and he will say it's nice but that's it.

If DMS asked some non audiophile people about the subjective price, they surely would not guess that much. That way he grilled the Sendy Audio Peacock.

 

[OCC7N]

If DMS asked some non audiophile people about the subjective price, they surely would not guess that much. That way he grilled the Sendy Audio Peacock.

Please don´t bring the rest of those guys. I have a weird chemistry will all of their videos. None of their words seem to have any real weight. Starting with DMS.

Oh my God I really had to waste 5 minutes of my life to confirm how much I find DMS words empty.


EDIT:



1:07
I also have this problem with other headphones. Thats my problem not the headphone

1:58
It comes with a 4.4 to XLR so this is a balanced headphone. Where does Sendy state this?
Is a headphone balanced just because it comes with a pentaconn connector - out of the box?

Around 5 minutes we see his setup with the toppings and his girl friend who will judge how good, and how much they are worth

Just because he made Linus cry(with Abyss chain), it does not mean he should be leading your thoughts to judge something.

 

[up late]

If climbing the ladder or special training is needed to appreciate a headphone it very often means that the sound is in some way badly distorted and/or with wonky frequency response that only a select few are then able to listen to it. Alternatively the difference is vanishingly small. Curiously enough, quite a few audiophiles actually take pride in this.

i'm not sure what your motivation is for posting in this thread but your dogma continues to be off-topic

 

[trollbearpig]

Sundara's almost the same. You just need to eq them. . No, this really sucks. I hope they will find a good solution and return the shipping costs as well.

Thanks! They have been fairly responsive over the holidays so that's been good. They were able to get me an RMA # and shipping label to send the Sundaras back and upon UPS receipt they will send out the 'real' order :'D. Already dropped them off so hopefully I get the Susvaras by this weekend.

 

[Lumithium]

ASR goal on headphones is to know if a headphones fit the vast majority of people. But we are a niche of very hardcore enjoyers that doesn't want a mainstream sound signature. It really doesn't surprise me that ASR doesn't recommend what most audiophile like. So it doesn't change my mind if it measures bad or not. Can't wait his review on my other best headphones, the D8000pro that will hit clipping at 114dB for sure.

That is not the point. Susvara isn’t the best in terms of measurements and does not adhere to the Harman target well. This is has been public information for as long as Susvara exists. But that’s fine, another source of measurements is always good in that we can see over the time if the Susvara’s sound changed, or if there is some big unit variation going on.

Even though Amir has shown incompetence when measuring headphones, sometimes using questionable methodology, most notably with Hifiman Ananda and Sennheiser HD598, that is not the biggest issue here.

The biggest problem in his post is his subjective review section and wording that are driven purely to get more clicks to the website.

It is evident by the wording used in the article. Frequency Response “errors”? Depending on the target curve (say OE 2017) used, it might not even exist when Susvara was in development, how would Hifiman tune the headphones to a target that didn’t even exist at the time? Secondly, there was no evidence that the Susvara was even tuned to the Harman Target to begin with. Not to mentioned there are multiple Harman Target curves? Saying it’s an error because it doesn’t adhere to their desired target is the same as saying your expensive apple juice is garbage because it does not taste like lemon tea. It makes no sense. Harman target was never intended as the be all and end all of all sound signatures. The people who developed the Harman target would have been face planting themselves knowing the years of research has been misused and misrepresented like this.

Another evidence is the numerous of times he mentioned the distortion at 114dB. For speakers, I can sort of understand. If your room is massive and you want to EQ some extra bass, you might want to know that piece of information. But headphones are, you know, meant to be used on your head, not as a speaker. Most people wouldn’t listen to Susvara from across the room. So while it’s good knowledge to know it distorts at 114dB, it is not applicable to most people. In fact, if you do want do play it that loud on your head, it is highly ill advised do so, OSHA rated at these levels you can get premature hearing loss within minutes of listening. It is baffling that a supposedly science driven website can fail to acknowledge this. And since it’s very rare for anyone to listen at such loud volume, the fact that it has high distortion at these level should just be a piece of “good to know” information, instead of a point of concern.

With his “subjective” conclusion, chances are either he has golden ears that is so good he does not suffer from any hearing loss and/or he is able to hear distortions that is not normally audible by humans, and/or he is just writing his script based on the measurements he already made.

At the end of the day, our preference is purely subjective. While some people prefers their apple juice to taste like lemon tea, I (and most people) prefer apple juice to taste like apple juice, like the manufacturer intended.

 

[up late]

dr fang bian said in an interview that hifiman does not use the harman target curve to tune its headphones