[801evan]

@801evan Please take up my challenge of a super high quality tube amp vs a basic speaker amp with Susvara.

Already have and instead of me converting to speaker amps, it's the speaker amp ppl who converted back to dac/amp, HP amps.

Please explain: If takes 142mw to reach 103dB, then how would a beefier amp somehow throw more power to the susvara and still give out 103dB?

 

[Articnoise]

Already have and instead of me converting to speaker amps, it's the speaker amp ppl who converted back to dac/amp, HP amps.

Please explain: If takes 142mw to reach 103dB, then how would a beefier amp somehow throw more power to the susvara and still give out 103dB?

To be able to drive at 110 km/h with a regular Volvo, you need an engine of about 30 horsepower max. Do people drive around in cars with engines with so little horsepower? No, of course not, that car takes forever to accelerate and would lose speed in headwinds and uphills. It's not all about how much horsepower the car has either, but at least as important is the the weight of the car and torque, which determines how much force/power the car has.

The same goes for an amplifier. It needs both voltage, current and watts. To drive planar magnetic headphones the limiting factor is almost always current and not power (watt) as it is for dynamic headphones.

If your goal is to be able to drive a 1 KHz tone to 103dB, 142mW may be enough, but if you want it to also sound good when you play real music, it is not enough.

 

[devilboy]

To be able to drive at 110 km/h with a regular Volvo, you need an engine of about 30 horsepower max. Do people drive around in cars with engines with so little horsepower? No, of course not, that car takes forever to accelerate and would lose speed in headwinds and uphills. It's not all about how much horsepower the car has either, but at least as important is the the weight of the car and torque, which determines how much force/power the car has.

The same goes for an amplifier. It needs both voltage, current and watts. To drive planar magnetic headphones the limiting factor is almost always current and not power (watt) as it is for dynamic headphones.

If your goal is to be able to drive a 1 KHz tone to 103dB, 142mW may be enough, but if you want it to also sound good when you play real music, it is not enough.

Wonderfully put.

 

[801evan]

To be able to drive at 110 km/h with a regular Volvo, you need an engine of about 30 horsepower max. Do people drive around in cars with engines with so little horsepower? No, of course not, that car takes forever to accelerate and would lose speed in headwinds and uphills. It's not all about how much horsepower the car has either, but at least as important is the the weight of the car and torque, which determines how much force/power the car has.

The same goes for an amplifier. It needs both voltage, current and watts. To drive planar magnetic headphones the limiting factor is almost always current and not power (watt) as it is for dynamic headphones.

If your goal is to be able to drive a 1 KHz tone to 103dB, 142mW may be enough, but if you want it to also sound good when you play real music, it is not enough.

??

Try listening to this guy...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-susvara.853031/post-16309861

 

[chesebert]

To be able to drive at 110 km/h with a regular Volvo, you need an engine of about 30 horsepower max. Do people drive around in cars with engines with so little horsepower? No, of course not, that car takes forever to accelerate and would lose speed in headwinds and uphills. It's not all about how much horsepower the car has either, but at least as important is the the weight of the car and torque, which determines how much force/power the car has.

The same goes for an amplifier. It needs both voltage, current and watts. To drive planar magnetic headphones the limiting factor is almost always current and not power (watt) as it is for dynamic headphones.

If your goal is to be able to drive a 1 KHz tone to 103dB, 142mW may be enough, but if you want it to also sound good when you play real music, it is not enough.

Kind of a weird analogy exacerbated by the fact of not every perceived sonic difference can be measured (at least not yet): try to measure PrAT So big engine vs acceleration doesn’t really make sense for me.

If you must use engine as an analogy I would say using a speaker amp to drive something that requires a few mw nominal power is like strapping a 5.6L V8 to a motorcycle (assuming hypothetically possible) Yes you will have limitless acceleration and power reserve but wouldn’t a properly designed motorcycle engine be a better solution?

 

[smodtactical]

Yes. Most of the time a big amp comes with a bigger psu. It's mostly about that big psu that makes the amp pull ahead of others, not the total power output to the HP out. So yes, ahb2 may sound fantastic but this is mostly coz of the psu.

But that still means that Susvara is benefiting from a more powerful PSU. Bigger psu tends to be more powerful... more wattage potentially more current. Not ONLY 'better quality circuit' as Loquan says.

 

[smodtactical]

Already have and instead of me converting to speaker amps, it's the speaker amp ppl who converted back to dac/amp, HP amps.

Please explain: If takes 142mw to reach 103dB, then how would a beefier amp somehow throw more power to the susvara and still give out 103dB?

Which high quality tube amp did you compare to a basic speaker amp on Sus ?

 

[smodtactical]

Kind of a weird analogy exacerbated by the fact of not every perceived sonic difference can be measured (at least not yet): try to measure PrAT So big engine vs acceleration doesn’t really make sense for me.

If you must use engine as an analogy I would say using a speaker amp to drive something that requires a few mw nominal power is like strapping a 5.6L V8 to a motorcycle (assuming hypothetically possible) Yes you will have limitless acceleration and power reserve but wouldn’t a properly designed motorcycle engine be a better solution?

So your arguing something with a few mw and low current is actually better since its a 'better solution' for susvara?

 

[chesebert]

So your arguing something with a few mw and low current is actually better since its a 'better solution' for susvara?

I am arguing for using a properly designed amp without current limitation (within reason so no need to double down to drive 2ohm) for driving headphones.

For one, speaker amps tend to have higher dc offset than properly designed headphone amp. A few mv may be no big deal for speakers but it’s a big deal for headphones. Putting aside potential stress on thin diaphragm even a few mv may restrict dynamics.

 

[801evan]

Kind of a weird analogy exacerbated by the fact of not every perceived sonic difference can be measured (at least not yet): try to measure PrAT So big engine vs acceleration doesn’t really make sense for me.

If you must use engine as an analogy I would say using a speaker amp to drive something that requires a few mw nominal power is like strapping a 5.6L V8 to a motorcycle (assuming hypothetically possible) Yes you will have limitless acceleration and power reserve but wouldn’t a properly designed motorcycle engine be a better solution?

Lol. More like pushing people to get bigger engines to go faster on a winding track without giving notice on getting better tires coz sliding "is cool " (distortion).

 

[devilboy]

New Hegel arrived today.

 

[devilboy]

H120

 

[chesebert]

You better measure the dc offset before you strap on your $5k headphones. Hegel looks like your generic Chinese ODM gear with average build quality.

 

[nekky]

New Hegel arrived today.

How does it sound? Any concerns around speaker tap connection?

 

[Articnoise]

You better measure the dc offset before you strap on your $5k headphones. Hegel looks like your generic Chinese ODM gear with average build quality.

You do not know what you are talking about Hegel is a Norwegian HIFI company that makes quality amplifiers.