HiFiMan Susvara
Aug 23, 2021 at 4:34 PM Post #10,666 of 26,670
I keep reading about O-rings and people taking days to get the TC to fit optimally. In conjunction with a FR that needs tweaking and a design aesthetic that doesn't grab me, that's a lot of potential humps to overcome. As I said, I will try once again to experience the magic that so many people seem to find with those cans, but it'll be my third (and final) attempt. But the other thing is that I have literally zero complaints with the Susvara and my current chain. I'd like a second TOTL headphone primarily as a practical matter (portability, closed back for isolation, etc.), and the TC wouldn't really check those particular boxes.
I skipped the previous 1266 versions due to comfort and fit issues. I believe largely the new headband improves the comfort of the TC drastically -- putting it into an actual comfortable rank of headphones. The stock o-rings fit most head heights. The ability to tailor with alternative o-rings is actually a plus, even more, the swapping mechanism for changing o-rings is, well, very easy. The fitment for sound is a variable you should appreciate to tune things to your liking. Yes, it does take some trial to find your preference but these toeing in/out, pad rotation are easy implementations. Once dialed-in, it's also very quick to set and go. It's not this settled, and then constant fickle of adjustments that people seem to intimate.

It does sound like Susvara and perhaps a closed alternative will serve as more complimentary. I'd recommend looking at the Rognir for a real contrasted pairing.
 
Aug 23, 2021 at 4:43 PM Post #10,667 of 26,670
Benchmark AHB2's output is 100W into 8 Ohms which is approx. 13 Watts into the 60 Ohms Susvaras. So yes, plenty of power.

However it's not just the power as a quantity. It's also how the power is delivered to the Susvaras which should be a lot of current with a low output impedance. Planar Magnetics need lots of current to sound their best !

Give you a real life example:-
My Chord Mezzo 140 is 120W into 8 Ohms i.e. approx. 16 Watts into the Susvaras. My Susvara's sounded pretty good and definetly not feeling underpowered.
My Hifiman EF1000 is 20W into 35 Ohms i.e. approx. 11.7 Watts into the Susvaras.
Yet the EF1000 makes my Susvaras sing a lot more than my Mezzo 140 does and that is with my Mezzo coupled via my Chord Prima Pre-Amp and direct to my Chord DAVE. And yet the Mezzo 140 has an additional 4 Watts into my Susvaras.
Sorry very newb question but I haven't learned how to match headphones/speaker to amps bases on watts/impedance/sensitivity. Can you provide the formula to convert the AHB2s 100W into 8 Ohms to how much Watts the susvara is going to get based on its 60 Ohms? Thanks. Regarding, the TT2 Balanced Output it produces 18W RMS 8Ω, so how much is the susvara's getting? Thanks. Appreciate the help.
 
Aug 23, 2021 at 5:22 PM Post #10,668 of 26,670
Sorry very newb question but I haven't learned how to match headphones/speaker to amps bases on watts/impedance/sensitivity. Can you provide the formula to convert the AHB2s 100W into 8 Ohms to how much Watts the susvara is going to get based on its 60 Ohms? Thanks. Regarding, the TT2 Balanced Output it produces 18W RMS 8Ω, so how much is the susvara's getting? Thanks. Appreciate the help.
Short answer is that power output is generally halved when load impedance doubles. So, divide the amp's 8 ohm power rating by about 8 for a 60 ohm load. Headphones with identical impedances can have very different sensitivities. I refer you to Google for further details...
 
Aug 23, 2021 at 9:30 PM Post #10,669 of 26,670
Understood. Both of them (TC, Raal) require EQ (either directly or through tweaks) to achieve a neutral and/or full-range response, which pretty much rules them out for me. I also don't like the aesthetics and fussiness of fit of either, to be perfectly honest. I plan to listen to both again at CanJam, but mostly because I'm just hoping to experience the magic that so many people here rave about. Based on previous auditions (admittedly at shows), I don't "get it" with either of those cans, but I'm still holding out hope.

They both have a glaring weakness or two. Can easily understand how one may want to EQ either.. but the wow factor they both have really outweighs the issues with either really, but that's just to me. Both are really really good complements to the Susvara, so I wouldn't close the door fully until you get a chance to spend a few weeks comparing.

But that said. I actually have a really newfound respect for the Susvara lately. It is a jack of all trades that I totally understand folks solely owning.
 
Aug 23, 2021 at 10:08 PM Post #10,670 of 26,670
To those of you with several flagships, when did you get the feeling that you own "too many"
Or that certain headphones didn't receive enough play time to keep?

Currently owning two and everything is fine, but there are also two more that interest me right now.
I am afraid there is no correct answer to this question. This is one of those situations in which only your own internal "red flag" would do. Personally, there was a time when I found all the flagships to be too expensive and off-limits for my purposes, until i bought my own first flagship, the HD-800, which might not even qualify as a true flagship nowadays. Now I may have between 4 and 6 so-called "bonafide flagships", depending on how many of them may count as "flagships" for any discerning head-fi Jury or "council of judges." :)slight_smile:) Still, the sheer variety and quantity of currently available headphone/flagship options is always making me feel inadequate about what I have, and I see no cure for that. Even so, I am never beyond the idea of selling one or two of them off to raise funds for something else, but when I do, it is almost never because I feel I have "too many." It has been quite a while, since I ever felt as if I have "too many," and i do not remember exactly when last that happened.

I suspect that a one-size-fits all flagship that would be everything to everyone and satisfy all listening needs does not exist. I am not even sure whether any ten flagships exist that would suffice in that role if someone owns them together, because I have no way to measure the range of flagship listening options that might be available from the hobby at any given time to any given enthusiast, let alone the range of possible needs that are capable of being satisfied. To complicate things even further, manufacturers are always coming up with new technologies, and creating new headphone models that promise new forms of "flagship" listening pleasure, and related new flavors (e.g. Audeze CRBN!). Who am I to say no to, or even keep track of these exciting forms of newness?

With all that said, in any world of limited means, and indefinitely multiplying varieties of listening pleasures and possibilities, lines must necessarily be drawn somewhere. Personally, my curiosity about new flagships and the listening options they might bring is unlimited, I can say that for sure, but without implying that I can afford even 1/20th of them at any given time.

So where to draw the line in the sand and say enough is enough? My answer is that in the same way as there is no one-size-fits all flagship to satisfy all needs, I suspect there can be no one-size-fits-all point at which one might hoist the red flag that says "enough is enough." so here too, I think people ought to be able to decide for themselves, depending on their own preferences, their needs, and the power they have to meet those needs, all of which may work like unstable, and unfixable moving targets anyway...'

Funny story here: when I first visited David Mahler's "Battle of the Flagships" thread (in 2014--when I began posting on Head-fi), I remember expressions like "insane," "bonkers," and "over-the-top" flooding my almost "shell-shocked" brain, although I also remember finding his classifications and rankings quite helpful, in spite of their imperfections.

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Now, after kicking around head-fi for more than 7 years, I have come to appreciate the contribution of David even more, and can now see how easily the gremlins of upgraditis might lead an audiophile down such a rabbit hole... Incidentally, I have also seen, since then, audiophile collections and rigs on the internet that far supersede David Mahler's relatively "modest" ( :slight_smile: ) collections, in quantity, volume, price-tags, and you name it--and exceeds them several times over... So I can now call them "relatively modest" as their quantity and volume no longer shock me.

In the meantime, it seems as if David Mahler himself has abandoned his project a long time ago, and many of the 58 cans he was classifying and calling "flagships" would now be considered "mid-fi" by other head-fiers. Still, I cannot help wondering how many headphones he has left today in his stable, and at what point he heard his own little voice saying "enough is enough," that is, if he ever experienced such an epiphany at all.:slight_smile::slight_smile::slight_smile:
 
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Aug 23, 2021 at 11:36 PM Post #10,671 of 26,670
it is great to own several but the problem is when you are listening to one you start thinking how the piece of music would sound with one of the others lol...for me it is a hobby that I have chosen to put the bulk of my discretionary income into .....each HP I own is the absolute best there is when I am listening to it
 
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Aug 24, 2021 at 3:45 AM Post #10,672 of 26,670
Sorry very newb question but I haven't learned how to match headphones/speaker to amps bases on watts/impedance/sensitivity. Can you provide the formula to convert the AHB2s 100W into 8 Ohms to how much Watts the susvara is going to get based on its 60 Ohms? Thanks. Regarding, the TT2 Balanced Output it produces 18W RMS 8Ω, so how much is the susvara's getting? Thanks. Appreciate the help.
I posted the formula a few months back on this Susvara forum !
 
Aug 24, 2021 at 7:28 PM Post #10,674 of 26,670
...that covers everything there is to cover :wink:
A powerful, seductive, and fantastic illusion to have, for sure, I've got to admit that.

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However, personally, I just wish there were some safe deposit vault somewhere secure enough to keep the dream intact, even while one navigates the multiple rabbit holes in this cave of audiophile treasures in search of further discoveries (old and new).
 
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Aug 24, 2021 at 8:30 PM Post #10,675 of 26,670
Bit the bullet and bought the Benchmark AHB2. The rear XLRs on the TT2 are not cutting it. I started using the Arya's more as the added power really makes them sing. I'll let you all know how it is. I'm sure it will sound good. Thanks guys. Now 15k in the hole hahaha .... :wink:
 
Aug 24, 2021 at 9:29 PM Post #10,676 of 26,670
Today is a sad day. I have decided to part ways with the Susvara for now. This is mainly prompted by my purchase of the Stealth and not wanting to start accumulating TOTL cans. I think I can justify owning two at this price point and I have decided on the Abyss between the two due to several factors. One, the Abyss doesn't seem to benefit from anything more than my TT2 when being driven by speaker amps, for example. Second, it's just the more immediately gratifying of the two headphones. You instantly get the wow factor from it whereas the Susvara takes time to appreciate. The Susvara has undoubtedly earned a top spot on my list of favorite headphones and I'm sure I'll be owning one again in the future (bring on Susvara SE already!).

Regarding the Susvara out of the Chord TT2 (balanced XLR outs):
I had a great experience with the Susvara right out of the XLR outs of my TT2 and found that sound to be something truly special. I also got a chance to enjoy it out of such speaker amps as the Pass Labs XA25 and the Chord Etude. Those amps certainly accentuated the lower end of the headphone and maybe a bit of the very top end, but also took something away from the synergy I really enjoyed with the direct TT2 drive. I know it's not a popular opinion and one I've previously posted, but I think the TT2 drives the Susvara out of the balanced outputs fine. It has a tonality and accuracy you might not prefer, but I wouldn't rush to get an amp and expect a transformative experience. I always went back to the TT2 direct and felt very satisfied. I never once felt like the TT2 couldn't hit my preferred volumes or was straining to get there.
 
Aug 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM Post #10,677 of 26,670
Today is a sad day. I have decided to part ways with the Susvara for now. This is mainly prompted by my purchase of the Stealth and not wanting to start accumulating TOTL cans. I think I can justify owning two at this price point and I have decided on the Abyss between the two due to several factors. One, the Abyss doesn't seem to benefit from anything more than my TT2 when being driven by speaker amps, for example. Second, it's just the more immediately gratifying of the two headphones. You instantly get the wow factor from it whereas the Susvara takes time to appreciate. The Susvara has undoubtedly earned a top spot on my list of favorite headphones and I'm sure I'll be owning one again in the future (bring on Susvara SE already!).

Regarding the Susvara out of the Chord TT2 (balanced XLR outs):
I had a great experience with the Susvara right out of the XLR outs of my TT2 and found that sound to be something truly special. I also got a chance to enjoy it out of such speaker amps as the Pass Labs XA25 and the Chord Etude. Those amps certainly accentuated the lower end of the headphone and maybe a bit of the very top end, but also took something away from the synergy I really enjoyed with the direct TT2 drive. I know it's not a popular opinion and one I've previously posted, but I think the TT2 drives the Susvara out of the balanced outputs fine. It has a tonality and accuracy you might not prefer, but I wouldn't rush to get an amp and expect a transformative experience. I always went back to the TT2 direct and felt very satisfied. I never once felt like the TT2 couldn't hit my preferred volumes or was straining to get there.
C'est la vie. I am always amazed, though, when people get rid of stuff to make room for new things that haven't even arrived yet. I'd need to hear whatever is replacing the thing I'm getting rid of. But if you feel the Abyss fulfills your open back planar needs, I guess you're covered anyway. Also, it sounds like you're much more of a fan of the DCA house sound than I have been, so perhaps you can better extrapolate the Stealth meeting your expectations.
 
Aug 24, 2021 at 10:51 PM Post #10,678 of 26,670
selling the susvara to purchase the stealth seems a real reach...I have no doubt the stealth will be a fine HP but the susvara is one of the 2 or 3 very best without question
 
Aug 24, 2021 at 11:01 PM Post #10,679 of 26,670
selling the susvara to purchase the stealth seems a real reach...I have no doubt the stealth will be a fine HP but the susvara is one of the 2 or 3 very best without question
Hasty although he does have the TC as his main reference so an acceptable sacrifice.
 
Aug 24, 2021 at 11:01 PM Post #10,680 of 26,670
selling the susvara to purchase the stealth seems a real reach...I have no doubt the stealth will be a fine HP but the susvara is one of the 2 or 3 very best without question
I gotta agree. I’ve been comparing all my headphones and the TCs and Susvaras are just on a different level. They are also both more expensive though and require powerful associated equipment. So I guess it’s a trade off.

I’m curious about the Stealth’s, because I want a good closed back, but I’m more interested in an Abyss closed back to be honest.
 

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