[normie610]

Finally got the Dave in... other than maybe rearranging some stuff in the stack at some point, I can finally be content to leave things be....for at LEAST a few months lol.

As for the Bakoon, I'm really enjoying it. I feel like it's completed the Susvara in a way that other headphone amps I tried weren't able to achieve. The best way I can describe is that with the HPA4 I always felt like something was missing. With the various pass labs+preamp variations I tried, it felt like those things that were missing were finally there. With the Bakoon, it's given me that plus more that I didn't even know the Susvara could do. Basically, as I've said before, the number of "wow" moments with the Bakoon is just wonderfully high and still happens to this day when finding new tracks to listen to. More-over, it's given a new dimension to my ZMF Verite Closed as well, where I no longer feel the need to EQ them to get the sound I wanted. A huuuge added bonus! I'll probably get rid of the giant analog EQ near the top of my stack at some point because of it

That’s a really big EQ there I guess Dave would be on top now?

Your impressions on Bakoon makes more eager to get it. Just got the Lumin T2 and L1 yesterday and they’ve already made a big improvement on Susvara, and that’s still using Burson Soloist 3XP. Really hope that the Bakoon will take it even further.

 

[Carm86]

That’s a really big EQ there I guess Dave would be on top now?

Your impressions on Bakoon makes more eager to get it. Just got the Lumin T2 and L1 yesterday and they’ve already made a big improvement on Susvara, and that’s still using Burson Soloist 3XP. Really hope that the Bakoon will take it even further.

Ya, I just ordered another level to place into my rack that will go at the top. The Dave will go at what's the top right now, and then my RTAs on top of that I had tried a lot of analog EQs and this was the only one I found that didn't seem to have a noticeable drop in sound quality when used. Mind you, who knows if maybe the Susvara would expose some of that or not, but it was fine with the ZMF VC at least.

Haven't heard of Lumin before, that's a hella purty looking streamer; nice and sleek! I think you'll like the Bakoon once you've got it going Is it on back-order?

 

[sahmen]

So owners of the Bakoon 13R: A question here regarding the absence of balanced XLR inputs. My best DACs all output their bestperforming signals out of their XLR outputs as per instructions of their own manufacturers, so were I to get the Bakoon, how might I get the best signals from such DACs into it? If I am feeding it RCA SE signals from DACs which sport superior XLR output signals, will I have to live with my Bakoon getting only the SE signals from such DACs and wouldn't that represent a rather defeatist compromise? I am just asking whether there is a workaround that you know about. Thanks.

 

[normie610]

Haven't heard of Lumin before, that's a hella purty looking streamer; nice and sleek! I think you'll like the Bakoon once you've got it going Is it on back-order?

Yeah it’s very sleek and not too big. I wanted the black version to match the Bakoon but apparently the dealer only has silver. The Bakoon should be shipped from Korea this Thursday but it’ll take longer due to customs process etc. I’m hoping to get it by 1st week of April.

 

[jlbrach]

So owners of the Bakoon 13R: A question here regarding the absence of balanced XLR inputs. My best DACs all output their bestperforming signals out of their XLR outputs as per instructions of their own manufacturers, so were I to get the Bakoon, how might I get the best signals from such DACs into it? If I am feeding it RCA SE signals from DACs which sport superior XLR output signals, will I have to live with my Bakoon getting only the SE signals from such DACs and wouldn't that represent a rather defeatist compromise? I am just asking whether there is a workaround that you know about. Thanks.

actually the chord dave according to rob watts is best out of the rca out...wells amps are also SE...this is no issue here...if an amp offers both balanced and SE the balanced may well be best but if it only SE then the amp is optimized that way...no worries

 

[Sajid Amit]

passing thoughts:

my replacement hekse arrived today (after a failed driver) and it's great to have them back after roughly a 5 week wait period

even though I also have the susvaras these hekse will also keep getting used - though not extremely different they do offer differences

the hekse distinctly/obviously tight and precise in all elements with high level of detail and a bit forward in its presentation and the susvara more natural/rounded with higher level of detail and nuances
the susvara needing a dedicated setup and the hekse playing well with anything

I would say somewhat complementary though in the same ball park and not extremely different, but if you like what hifiman offers.....

Thanks for the comparison. How is the bass and slam of the HEKSE in comparison to the Susvara's?

 

[paradoxper]

So owners of the Bakoon 13R: A question here regarding the absence of balanced XLR inputs. My best DACs all output their bestperforming signals out of their XLR outputs as per instructions of their own manufacturers, so were I to get the Bakoon, how might I get the best signals from such DACs into it? If I am feeding it RCA SE signals from DACs which sport superior XLR output signals, will I have to live with my Bakoon getting only the SE signals from such DACs and wouldn't that represent a rather defeatist compromise? I am just asking whether there is a workaround that you know about. Thanks.

jlbrach is wrong. In that, the generalization of the optimization is a two-way street. Many DACs operate within flexible performance toleration either SE or balanced.
However, it's well established the Yggdrasil performs rather poorly with SE comparatively.
This forces you to the concession of a transformer converter (Jensen is popular) or likely seeking out an alternative DAC.

Don't force yourself into a pigeonhole.

 

[Sajid Amit]

The susvara took on another serious contender and it will still my go-to hp. I tried the Utopia today and, while I found it to be a very nice hp, I can't see it displacing the susvara. If I had not heard the susvara I think it would be a keeper and is indeed quite enjoyable. Yes, the Utopia may dig a little deeper (but not as tight) on bass and that is a plus, but the staging is not up to the susvara level, IMO.

I am still hesitant to snag the 1266 TC mostly from reports of folks that find it uncomfortable although I'm sure it sounds great!

In my quest to find a stable mate for the susvara, I may be down to the T+A Solitaire P when it is available to demo or when they are not a special order item with a no return option.

My Final Audio D8000 complements the Susvara nicely. It doesn't have the 1266 levels of resolution, but has one of the best bass I have heard in a headphone (trades blows with the 1266, although the 1266 beats it), but has a midrange far more natural sounding to my ears, especially, vocals, than the 1266. When you mentioned the Utopia, I was reminded of it, because, for me, it nudged the Utopia by a bit, because of its tuning.

It's a tad heavy but weight distribution is fantastic.

 

[Sajid Amit]

Finally got the Dave in... other than maybe rearranging some stuff in the stack at some point, I can finally be content to leave things be....for at LEAST a few months lol.

As for the Bakoon, I'm really enjoying it. I feel like it's completed the Susvara in a way that other headphone amps I tried weren't able to achieve. The best way I can describe is that with the HPA4 I always felt like something was missing. With the various pass labs+preamp variations I tried, it felt like those things that were missing were finally there. With the Bakoon, it's given me that plus more that I didn't even know the Susvara could do. Basically, as I've said before, the number of "wow" moments with the Bakoon is just wonderfully high and still happens to this day when finding new tracks to listen to. More-over, it's given a new dimension to my ZMF Verite Closed as well, where I no longer feel the need to EQ them to get the sound I wanted. A huuuge added bonus! I'll probably get rid of the giant analog EQ near the top of my stack at some point because of it

Congratulations on the Bakoon. Glad to hear such rave reviews from you and @jlbrach.

Unrelated, but I am considering upgrading from my Auteur to a VC or a VO. Love the ZMF timbre.

 

[Carm86]

So owners of the Bakoon 13R: A question here regarding the absence of balanced XLR inputs. My best DACs all output their bestperforming signals out of their XLR outputs as per instructions of their own manufacturers, so were I to get the Bakoon, how might I get the best signals from such DACs into it? If I am feeding it RCA SE signals from DACs which sport superior XLR output signals, will I have to live with my Bakoon getting only the SE signals from such DACs and wouldn't that represent a rather defeatist compromise? I am just asking whether there is a workaround that you know about. Thanks.

I'm currently running Dave --- XLR ---> HPA4 --- RCA ---> Bakoon

This way I can still keep the HPA4 fully balanced and available for use with my IEMs since it has a lower noise floor than the bakoon.

actually the chord dave according to rob watts is best out of the rca out...wells amps are also SE...this is no issue here...if an amp offers both balanced and SE the balanced may well be best but if it only SE then the amp is optimized that way...no worries

Though now seeing this...maybe at some point I'll try RCA directly into the bakoon and see what it's like I kinda like the convenience of having it hooked up the way I do right now but always worth a shot to see if it's a big improvement

Congratulations on the Bakoon. Glad to hear such rave reviews from you and @jlbrach.

Unrelated, but I am considering upgrading from my Auteur to a VC or a VO. Love the ZMF timbre.

Thanks And I absolutely love the VC, I can't think of any other closed-back headphones I'd rather have. I can't speak much of the VO though, I've only tried ZMF's closed backs and the VC was the only thing I liked from that end of the roster.

 

[jlbrach]

jlbrach is wrong. In that, the generalization of the optimization is a two-way street. Many DACs operate within flexible performance toleration either SE or balanced.
However, it's well established the Yggdrasil performs rather poorly with SE comparatively.
This forces you to the concession of a transformer converter (Jensen is popular) or likely seeking out an alternative DAC.

Don't force yourself into a pigeonhole.

if I say black it seems you say white...it is kind of strange...so be it..I said if an amp is designed as a SE only that it isnt going to mean that it sounds worse than a balanced design...I also said that rob watts at chord has said clearly that the SE out of the dave is his preferred method even though it has XLR out as well..my only point was that an SE amp is not necessarily better or worse than a balanced amp

 

[nwavesailor]

My Final Audio D8000 complements the Susvara nicely. It doesn't have the 1266 levels of resolution, but has one of the best bass I have heard in a headphone (trades blows with the 1266, although the 1266 beats it), but has a midrange far more natural sounding to my ears, especially, vocals, than the 1266. When you mentioned the Utopia, I was reminded of it, because, for me, it nudged the Utopia by a bit, because of its tuning.

It's a tad heavy but weight distribution is fantastic.

The bass on the Final Audio D8000 Pro is good!

I only had them for a short demo, but I did find the bass of the D8K went deeper than the Susvara or Utopia.

I could, however, never get the Final Audio to fit me quite right. I think (?) I have small to normal size ears, but found it touching perhaps because the opening of the pad was round as well as feeling a little pressure on the front by my jaw. We all know the susvara are very comfortable. The only pair I found more so were the Empy's and I sold them after hearing the incredible detail & clarity of the susvara and just couldn't go back. I also found I skipped some songs with the D8K where I played them all with the Susvara and a used Utopia I tried today. If I had not heard, and now own the Susvara, I think I would have kept the Utopia. They sounded very good and they seemed to be a very well built as were the D8K.

I am seriously considering even selling my beloved ZMF VO w/ 4 sets of pads. Still hoping to try the T+A and see if the hype is real. It certainly was for the Susvara!
That darn Susvara has ruined me for other hp!!!!

 

[Sajid Amit]

I'm currently running Dave --- XLR ---> HPA4 --- RCA ---> Bakoon

This way I can still keep the HPA4 fully balanced and available for use with my IEMs since it has a lower noise floor than the bakoon.



Though now seeing this...maybe at some point I'll try RCA directly into the bakoon and see what it's like I kinda like the convenience of having it hooked up the way I do right now but always worth a shot to see if it's a big improvement



Thanks And I absolutely love the VC, I can't think of any other closed-back headphones I'd rather have. I can't speak much of the VO though, I've only tried ZMF's closed backs and the VC was the only thing I liked from that end of the roster.

How does the VC compare with the Susvara, in terms of tonality and technical performance?

 

[paradoxper]

if I say black it seems you say white...it is kind of strange...so be it..I said if an amp is designed as a SE only that it isnt going to mean that it sounds worse than a balanced design...I also said that rob watts at chord has said clearly that the SE out of the dave is his preferred method even though it has XLR out as well..my only point was that an SE amp is not necessarily better or worse than a balanced amp

You just ignore context. His question was posed regarding the balanced nature of his DAC so your reply completely disregards circumstance.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

actually the chord dave according to rob watts is best out of the rca out...wells amps are also SE...this is no issue here...if an amp offers both balanced and SE the balanced may well be best but if it only SE then the amp is optimized that way...no worries

From my own experiences and my ears with owning two fully loaded Chord Choral systems, I don't believe connecting the DAVE with single ended RCA's to either an external Pre-Amp or direct to a Power Amp is superior to the balanced XLR outputs.

The complete Chord Choral system i.e. DAC's (DAVE & QBD76 - Chord's Choral system DAC before the DAVE), Prima Pre-Amp & Mezzo / Etude / Ultima Power Amps are all designed based on analogue output balanced topology to get the best performance from them. I even spoke to Chord myself many years ago on this subject and they said use the balanced XLR outputs if you can to get the best performance.

The DAVE (& QBD76) will give 6V RMS from the XLR balanced connections as opposed to the 3V for single ended RCA's.

I have experimented with the DAVE and the QBD76 in numerous set-up options i.e. using it's built in digital pre-amp and only DAC mode both through my speaker systems and my Susvara's and the balanced XLR output's are far superior to the single ended RCA's. Note I was using the same very high quality cables for both XLR and RCA.