[radnor]

That's probably borderline in terms of power for the susvara.
The 789 as an example is 6w into 32 ohm. So following ohm's law that's 3.2 watts. The 789 definitely gets them loud enough, but absolutely cannot drive them properly.

Being able to get them loud, and being able to drive them RIGHT are two very different things.

The HPA4 from all who've tried it drives them MUCH better. But according to the spec sheet its max rating is 6w into 16 ohm. So it should be less power than the 789 or the same if you go by the 6w/16ohm rating on the 789 sheet as it lists 6w for both 16 and 32ohm.

The problem isn't wattage, its current. The susvara needs plenty of current to be driven properly. I'd suspect that the bakoon actually has plenty of current available, though I don't know what the design looks like for the headphone output. You may actually find that the susvara sounds significantly better driven by the speaker taps than it does by the headphone output.

I am currently organising a home-trial of the AMP-13R, though will need to wait for the lockdown situation to clear up.
Once it arrives i'll do some comparisons between it, the 789 and the AHB2. As well as the bakoon's speaker taps vs headphone output

again read the 5 SPEAKER AMP SHOOT OUT ARTICLE WITH SUSVARA I posted earlier... Bakoon won.... so yes something else going on other than just watts.

 

[ThanatosVI]

Has anyone experience with the Susvara on a Schiit Mjolnir 2?

8w into 32 Ohm, so at least from a power Perspective it Sounds promising

 

[koven]

The HPA4 from all who've tried it drives them MUCH better. But according to the spec sheet its max rating is 6w into 16 ohm. So it should be less power than the 789 or the same if you go by the 6w/16ohm rating on the 789 sheet as it lists 6w for both 16 and 32ohm.

Well yes power rating isn't everything, THD+N is much lower on the HPA4 despite the 789 putting out similar power.

 

[koven]

Has anyone experience with the Susvara on a Schiit Mjolnir 2?

8w into 32 Ohm, so at least from a power Perspective it Sounds promising

I think Schiit DACs perform better than their amps. Yggy is great but the Ragnarok was pretty underwhelming. At the time I had the V281 and GS-X 2 alongside the Rag and both were noticeably superior so personally I've lost the appetite for their (other) amps.

 

[DJJEZ]

im pretty sure in the benchmark HPA4 thread if you scroll back to the early pages the guys at benchmark said you gain nothing by choosing the AHB2 over the HPA4. they should sound identical and both can drive susvara the same

 

[GoldenSound]

again read the 5 SPEAKER AMP SHOOT OUT ARTICLE WITH SUSVARA I posted earlier... Bakoon won.... so yes something else going on other than just watts.

Yeah I'm pretty excited to try the bakoon.
I'd also really like to try the MHA150 as that was the amp I was originally planning to get, but will probably need to take my susvaras to the McIntosh retailer near me as they don't offer home trials, so it won't be quite as fair a comparison.

Also with the bakoon I'd still be curious to see how the sound changes using rear vs headphone outputs given as the headphone out from what I can tell is still additional/different circuitry

 

[GoldenSound]

im pretty sure in the benchmark HPA4 threadif you scroll back to the early pages the guys at benchmark said you gain nothing by choosing the AHB2 over the HPA4. they should sound identical and both can drive susvara the same

I'm somewhat skeptical of that.

If you were to assume that so long as you stay below the max wattage output of the amp the result is the same then yeah that would be true, but the HPA4 is a thx888 headphone amp (its actually just an LA4 with an 888 circuit added in), so to say that its the same as the 100wpc AHB2 would be odd.

I'm guessing they made that statement based solely on the assumption that the susvaras don't need the full wattage output of the HPA4 and therefore there should be no difference.

 

[koven]

im pretty sure in the benchmark HPA4 thread the guys at benchmark said you gain nothing by choosing the ABH2 over the HPA4. they should sound identical and both can drive susvara the same

In terms of amp topology they share the same design but HPA4 has the analog line stage as well, w/ 256-steps per channel. So unless you pair the AHB2 w/ the LA4 it likely won't sound the same as the HPA4 because of the preamp.

 

[DJJEZ]

In terms of amp topology they share the same design but HPA4 has the analog line stage as well, w/ 256-steps per channel. So unless you pair the AHB2 w/ the LA4 it likely won't sound the same as the HPA4 because of the preamp.

thanks for the reply

 

[GoldenSound]

In terms of amp topology they share the same design but HPA4 has the analog line stage as well, w/ 256-steps per channel. So unless you pair the AHB2 w/ the LA4 it likely won't sound the same as the HPA4 because of the preamp.

The AHB2 and THX 888 circuit inside the HPA4 are not the same.
The HPA4 does 6 watts into 16 ohms.
The AHB2 by comparison does 50 watts into 16 ohms.

They are both THX feed-forward correction circuits, but they are still very different amps with very different capabilities.

When I do my comparison the HPA4 will be acting as the preamp for the AHB2 to keep it a fair test (essentially acting as an LA4, the additional THX 888 circuit is not in the signal path for the line outs)

 

[koven]

The AHB2 and THX 888 circuit inside the HPA4 are not the same.
The HPA4 does 6 watts into 16 ohms.
The AHB2 by comparison does 50 watts into 16 ohms.

They are both THX feed-forward correction circuits, but they are still very different amps with very different capabilities.

When I do my comparison the HPA4 will be acting as the preamp for the AHB2 to keep it a fair test (essentially acting as an LA4, the additional THX 888 circuit is not in the signal path for the line outs)

Of course HPA4 can't power speakers. I just meant they both are based on THX AAA.

 

[GoldenSound]

Of course HPA4 can't power speakers. I just meant they both are based on THX AAA.

Ah ok. Thought you were saying they were the same amp

From trying various headphones so far, stuff that doesn't require the extra current, so most dynamics etc, sound basically identical on the THX 789 and AHB2.
HD800 for example I would not be able to tell in a blind test I don't think.

But something that needs the extra current, so susvaras, or even aryas, there is a very notable difference between the two even if I set the volume quiet enough that the 789 should have plenty of headroom.

 

[koven]

Ah ok. Thought you were saying they were the same amp

From trying various headphones so far, stuff that doesn't require the extra current, so most dynamics etc, sound basically identical on the THX 789 and AHB2.
HD800 for example I would not be able to tell in a blind test I don't think.

But something that needs the extra current, so susvaras, or even aryas, there is a very notable difference between the two even if I set the volume quiet enough that the 789 should have plenty of headroom.

I can't imagine the Susvara sounding better than it does w/ the Benchmark. Maybe the Bakoon will prove me wrong.

 

[jlbrach]

Stage/Layering:
The soundstage is huuuuge....really huge. But it still retains the ability to present elements of the music in close and intimate, without at all sounding forced or compromising timbre. And so it is big, whilst also having an excellent range. Avoiding the "everything sounds big" trap that some other headphones fall into.
The layering is also absolutely excellent. With the headphones able to present vocals in close, drums booming across an arena and warm strings or synths somewhere inbetween and any mix of anything you could ask for. All while clearly separated, natural sounding and transparent without being clinical or overly warm in the slightest.
I'm hesitant to say its as good as the arya in this regard though. The soundstage on susvara is bigger, and bigger than HD800, but Arya is still the layering king.
That's not to say the susvara isn't fantastic in this regard, its simply an affirmation that the aryas have the best layering and range of soundstage presentation of absolutely anything i've tried.
HD800 in comparison while big, has nowhere near the layering capability. Everything is some level of distance away and so anything that is SUPPOSED to be presented close to you sounds off and diffused.

the soundstage is very deep but not huge...huge would be the abyss TC.......

 

[radnor]

Stage/Layering:
The soundstage is huuuuge....really huge. But it still retains the ability to present elements of the music in close and intimate, without at all sounding forced or compromising timbre. And so it is big, whilst also having an excellent range. Avoiding the "everything sounds big" trap that some other headphones fall into.
The layering is also absolutely excellent. With the headphones able to present vocals in close, drums booming across an arena and warm strings or synths somewhere inbetween and any mix of anything you could ask for. All while clearly separated, natural sounding and transparent without being clinical or overly warm in the slightest.
I'm hesitant to say its as good as the arya in this regard though. The soundstage on susvara is bigger, and bigger than HD800, but Arya is still the layering king.
That's not to say the susvara isn't fantastic in this regard, its simply an affirmation that the aryas have the best layering and range of soundstage presentation of absolutely anything i've tried.
HD800 in comparison while big, has nowhere near the layering capability. Everything is some level of distance away and so anything that is SUPPOSED to be presented close to you sounds off and diffused.

the soundstage is very deep but not huge...huge would be the abyss TC.......

YOU WANT HUGE? I WILL GIVE YOU HUGE... TBH guys I started this journey with Headfi... and it has been completely destroyed by BACCH. It is quite literally the ultimate sound experience by an order of magnitude... you are sitting in a sound hologram... with vanished speakers. Hope to give any of you in Bay area a demo... happy to make some good coffee and host a demo. Read this report... believe the hype... I too thought it was BS until I heard it as well. Its endgame beyond endgame... shocking thing about BACCH is you are not expecting what you are about to hear... and when you hear it you realize you had no conception this was possible. This demo was done with Dr. C the cofounder of Audeze and his new speakers running BACCH.

https://www.soundstageglobal.com/in...hold-shocking-demos-at-the-chelsea-wine-vault