[Bootycall922]

Do you all use high gain on your amp for Susvara?

 

[Polygonhell]

Do you all use high gain on your amp for Susvara?

Depends on the Amp, I didn't on the WA33. But as far as I can tell there wasn't a significant sound difference, just volume, on high and low gain for the WA33 (that's not always true), And I used the lower gain setting for a slightly better position on the Volume pot
None of my other amps have the option.

 

[thefitz]

Do you all use high gain on your amp for Susvara?

I think "high gain" is relative, and knowing the actual gain might help. I find my Ragnarok at 28db gain is a little too steely sounding, although the presentation is very interesting. I have it at 18db gain.

 

[Sand Dan Glokta]

Talking about speakers, thats what its told in Soundnews:

“VI. Detail Retrieval & Transparency

Oh boy…here we go again. Putting it bluntly, Susvara easily outperformed my own KEF Reference 3 loudspeakers ($14.000), as these were more resolving to anything I’ve tried at my place.”

And i think in its Primavera amp he said that the chain with susvara, and (i m not sure what dac, dave?) outperforms systems of more then 100k $.

 

[theveterans]

With Susvara, you get a perfectly treated room and that's its biggest advantage. Even with million dollar setups, if your room sucks, you lose the finest details and refinements that system is capable of reproducing

 

[up late]

^ i would think that someone who can afford a 'million dollar setup' can also afford effective room treatment for it

 

[Polygonhell]

i would think that someone who can afford a 'million dollar setup' can also afford effective room treatment for it

Most people only ever hear them at shows, and rooms are rarely set up well at shows.
It's one of the reasons you'll see rooms with much cheaper setups sometimes get voted best of show, because the vendor spent the time to optimize the space. Or just got lucky with the space.

Speakers do things projecting space that headphones can't, I'd describe the Raals or MySphere's as presenting like near field speakers, BUT, they still don't image like them, they image in and around your head, a good 2Ch in a good room, the speakers "disappear" and it really is like sitting in front of a stage.
Headphones have their own presentation, the best that can be said about it is it's different, took me a long time coming from 2Ch to headphones to really get it.
I just don't think they are comparable, I enjoy both, in a world where I could easilly listen to either, I'd probably pick speakers 9 times out of 10, but I spent 30 years listening to Speakers before I decided headphones were worthwhile.

I've also never had a good 2Ch that was easy and convenient to listen to, my 135W class A tube power amps take an hour to sound their best, and will heat a room in winter, so it takes at least planning to listen.

 

[Somatic]

As someone who transitioned to bookshelves primarily in recent years (and forced back into headphones at night) , I will say the cost will not be as much as you would think.
I've been running the Focal Diablo Utopias as a desktop nearfield options for quite some time now, with a KC62 Sub. I got them used for about 6-7k usd. They are quite aggresive, so an amp that can take the edge off a little will be nice (think pass pabs / luxman / tubes ) . I currently run a INT25 with them. I'm a fan Susvara's tonality and this speaker/amp combo works for me.

Anyway for my listening preferences, I will take bookshelves/2ch listening over any headphone setup any day. I just like the boundless stage of speakers, it is more akin to listening to live performances IMO. But I'll also argue that it is subjective/different. Headphones give off a more intimate/ASMR experience. For speakers, its more like sitting in a concert hall with a band peforming in front of you. You can replicate this effect to a certain extent with crossfeed in headphones, but its just not the same for me. However, the opposite is also true, you can never replicate the sameASMR/Intimate experience with speakers.

Thanks for the tips. These are on my short list. They look amazing.

 

[jonchard]

Most people only ever hear them at shows, and rooms are rarely set up well at shows.
It's one of the reasons you'll see rooms with much cheaper setups sometimes get voted best of show, because the vendor spent the time to optimize the space. Or just got lucky with the space.

Speakers do things projecting space that headphones can't, I'd describe the Raals or MySphere's as presenting like near field speakers, BUT, they still don't image like them, they image in and around your head, a good 2Ch in a good room, the speakers "disappear" and it really is like sitting in front of a stage.
Headphones have their own presentation, the best that can be said about it is it's different, took me a long time coming from 2Ch to headphones to really get it.
I just don't think they are comparable, I enjoy both, in a world where I could easilly listen to either, I'd probably pick speakers 9 times out of 10, but I spent 30 years listening to Speakers before I decided headphones were worthwhile.

I've also never had a good 2Ch that was easy and convenient to listen to, my 135W class A tube power amps take an hour to sound their best, and will heat a room in winter, so it takes at least planning to listen.

I went from a good stereo dual power amp & sub system to Susvara. For me nothing images like Susvara, Interesting how we each enjoy something different. The only thing i miss is true sub bass which a headphone will never manage.

 

[up late]

Most people only ever hear them at shows, and rooms are rarely set up well at shows.
It's one of the reasons you'll see rooms with much cheaper setups sometimes get voted best of show, because the vendor spent the time to optimize the space. Or just got lucky with the space.

Speakers do things projecting space that headphones can't, I'd describe the Raals or MySphere's as presenting like near field speakers, BUT, they still don't image like them, they image in and around your head, a good 2Ch in a good room, the speakers "disappear" and it really is like sitting in front of a stage.
Headphones have their own presentation, the best that can be said about it is it's different, took me a long time coming from 2Ch to headphones to really get it.
I just don't think they are comparable, I enjoy both, in a world where I could easilly listen to either, I'd probably pick speakers 9 times out of 10, but I spent 30 years listening to Speakers before I decided headphones were worthwhile.

I've also never had a good 2Ch that was easy and convenient to listen to, my 135W class A tube power amps take an hour to sound their best, and will heat a room in winter, so it takes at least planning to listen.

i wasn't referring to 'most people' in my post but to those people who can afford a 'million dollar setup' in their homes. as for comparing headphones to loudspeakers, i don't see the point of it tbh - i enjoy listening to both.

 

[thefitz]

I went from a good stereo dual power amp & sub system to Susvara. For me nothing images like Susvara, Interesting how we each enjoy something different. The only thing i miss is true sub bass which a headphone will never manage.

It's rare, but back with the HD600 was king (some say still is!), some hardcore folks actually augmented their HD600 with a subwoofer. Yep, two channels to the HD600, with LFE out to a dedicated subwoofer.

I truly believe that every single one of us in this thread is also that hardcore.

 

[Sand Dan Glokta]

Speakers do things projecting space that headphones can't, I'd describe the Raals or MySphere's as presenting like near field speakers, BUT, they still don't image like them, they image in and around your head, a good 2Ch in a good room, the speakers "disappear" and it really is like sitting in front of a stage.
Headphones have their own presentation, the best that can be said about it is it's different, took me a long time coming from 2Ch to headphones to really get it.
I just don't think they are comparable, I enjoy both, in a world where I could easilly listen to either, I'd probably pick speakers 9 times out of 10, but I spent 30 years listening to Speakers before I decided headphones were worthwhile.

I've also never had a good 2Ch that was easy and convenient to listen to, my 135W class A tube power amps take an hour to sound their best, and will heat a room in winter, so it takes at least planning to listen.

With susvara and a good chain i would say they image around the room more than around your head imo.

 

[IanB52]

I have the inverse issue with the headfi market. Having grown up with headphones and very much enjoying the ear to ear, wrap around imaging and detail, I get disappointed with all the amps tuned for 2 channel people that have a crap ton of crosstalk and present and narrow mono-ish image. If I wanted that I would get speakers or DSP.

Headphones strong point is providing an immersive stereo experience, not recreating a narrow front triangle of 2 channel speakers. The stereo possibilities are wasted, and the true mix panning is altered when you try to do that. The silly reverse situation would be like putting your speakers at 180 degrees facing each ear to emulate headphones (probably some phase processing needed).

Funny thing though, open back headphones do benefit from a treated room! Obviously, the level of reflections is much lower, and not as crucial, but you can still hear them and it makes a difference.

 

[bozebuttons]

I enjoy both headphones & my speaker system for over 40years They both have there merits.
Lately its been more speakers But I would not give up My headphones.

 

[jonchard]

It's rare, but back with the HD600 was king (some say still is!), some hardcore folks actually augmented their HD600 with a subwoofer. Yep, two channels to the HD600, with LFE out to a dedicated subwoofer.

I truly believe that every single one of us in this thread is also that hardcore.

I nearly did this the other day with an REL subwoofer ... but then i felt dirty mixing slow bass with reference susvaras Also, my wife would have gutted me like a fish