[bagwell359]

The vast majority of reviews of the Sundara I've read agrees with my own experience about its excellent treble.

Compared to cans in its price range? It’s quite nice for the price.

I didn't feel there was much difference in the quality of treble between the two headphones. The 6se may have a slightly drier treble, but that's about it. All of this is post-EQ. I think in stock forms, the 6se is comparatively bright.

I think the Sundara has a small stage and sounds pinched, lacking in details and subtleties such as overtones and recording details.

Hey, that's fine if you think that way about those cans, but I think this statement,

is quite funny. I can think of at least three things the Sundara excels over 6 se, and I've already mentioned them in my review from a year ago: the Sundara with the right amping presents music with more life, and intimacy (without sacrificing spaciousness). The Sundara can have much more body, and sound larger, and while being more engaging. The 6se comparatively is distant, yet the sound isn't large; it's just thin and hollow.

We both speak from our own experiences. There is nothing funny about it. I don’t think it’s funny that you blew out your pair, it’s just a fact.

I think the 6se is highly overrated, and is not worth the $500 that it was "on sale" as at Adorama. It's funny to me how it was "on sale" for virtually forever. How long does a sale usually last? My guess is: the v1 sold like s***, because people realized that amping the thing is PitA,

Since you don’t believe me read the opinions of others on the Summit board. Not much mention of the Sundara there but lots - and mostly very positive about the 6 SE can be found there.

and it doesn't even sound that great, and since they couldn't sell it, they off-loaded their excess inventory it to Adorama at a discounted price, replaced the headband in order to rebrand it to "v2" at $700. Unfortunately, they realized $700 was still far too high given the low sales rate, especially given the number of returns and warranty claims, so they further dropped it to $500.

OK. You sure seemed to like them fine before you blew them up. I hope your opinion isn’t being influenced by that incident.

Imo, it probably doesn't cost HFM much more, if at all, to manufacture the 6se than the Sundara. Imo, the pricing is most likely almost all marketing BS, as HFM was trying to get away with milking the reputation of the old HE-6 as much as they could. For crying out loud, the headbands on both the v1 and v2 are identical to those on HFM's entry units. Do you really think the assembly that includes the metal frame, magnets, and diaphragm alone accounts for >$1200??? The v1 was originally priced ridiculously at $1700. What an absolute joke!

I’ve already posted a number of times about HFM pricing. It’s quite clear they could sell the Susvara direct for $999 and still make a very solid profit. The OG HEX v1 started at $1799, and closed as the v2 at $899. The HEK v2 sold for $3k then $2k, now $1399. Again harping on just the 6 SE seems to be following an agenda.

I've come to a conclusion regarding headphones. After a certain price point ($300-ish), subjective evaluation of each headphone becomes the dominant factor. "Technical superiority" after a certain point, becomes nothing more than buzz terms and marketing, more so than actual innovation and manufacturing costs.

While so much of audiophile/high end is image/market driven, there are actual products that are worth more than a certain threshold. I found sublime enjoyment from some audio products - some low/mid/high priced. A few months ago I heard the Rall CA-1a and outside of 4 extremely expensive speaker systems (2 of mine) nothing else could compare, even the Susvara, D8000, LCD-4 200 ohm, Stax 007, 009, and the DCA Voce. At a lower price point the HE-500’s I picked up for $360 5 years ago with about $200 of mods/upgraded has been quite enjoyable, but with very similar mods/eq my $799 6SE v1 is a better listen for me and the Sundara in comparison was a waste of time outside of verifying it was of interest to me in joining my other HFM purchases past and present. I’m not changing my opinion and I think this discussion isn’t going to be interesting to others at this point. Please feel free to do as you like.

 

[Cat Whisperer Bob]

Hi tigon_ridge, I have owned the Sundara and a friend has the HE-6SE. We get together for some listening sessions so I have heard both with different equipment and music sources.
First of all the Sundara is a good headphone for the money, probably one of the most evenly balanced in its range. However it does not have the detail, sound stage clarity, and imaging that the HE6 does in the treble . And certainly not the bass where the HE6 blows it (and most other headphones under $1000) away.
One note on this though, you need a strong amp to get the HE6 singing at its best, so if you’re basing your observations while using a modest amp then I can see why you are thinking that it’s not as good as it really is. On a real strong amp with 8+ wpc at 50 ohms or more it’s amazing!!! This headphone also scales up with a better DAC as well.
Actually after hearing what music sounded like with the HE6 I sold my Sundara and upgraded to the Ananda Stealth (the Adorama sale was long gone and the Ananda is now only $549).

 

[tigon_ridge]

Hi tigon_ridge, I have owned the Sundara and a friend has the HE-6SE. We get together for some listening sessions so I have heard both with different equipment and music sources.
First of all the Sundara is a good headphone for the money, probably one of the most evenly balanced in its range. However it does not have the detail, sound stage clarity, and imaging that the HE6 does in the treble . And certainly not the bass where the HE6 blows it (and most other headphones under $1000) away.
One note on this though, you need a strong amp to get the HE6 singing at its best, so if you’re basing your observations while using a modest amp then I can see why you are thinking that it’s not as good as it really is. On a real strong amp with 8+ wpc at 50 ohms or more it’s amazing!!! This headphone also scales up with a better DAC as well.
Actually after hearing what music sounded like with the HE6 I sold my Sundara and upgraded to the Ananda Stealth (the Adorama sale was long gone and the Ananda is now only $549).

I powered the HE-6se with a speaker amp that is capable of outputting about 25W (guestimated) into 50ohm, which is the HE-6se. It's the same amp that I'm using to power my Sundara, though I'm using it mostly for sound quality reasons than power, although the power headroom is nice to have when I do require it. I've written a lot about this combo, both in this thread and one of the 6se threads. Imo, this combo makes the Sundara sound much better than I'd heard the 6se through any of my other amps, which I have three: this Crown XLS 1502, a Schiit Vali 2+, and a THX789. Only the 1502 is capable of making the Sundara sing to its fullest potential. Without it, I might agree with you and Bagwell that the 6se is the better sounding headphone.

There may be another speaker amp out there that will change my mind about the 6se v2, but I highly doubt it, and I don't have the room, nor spare change to explore other possibilities. These speaker amps that are class AB are BIG and output a lot of heat, and I want to keep the amp in my bedroom, on my computer desk, but I don't want an enormous 40 lb machine constantly outputting 75W-100W into the room. The Crown amp is a Class D, and it sounds fantastic for a Class D; but it's actually smaller than some headphone amps, weighs 8 lbs, and runs at 21W when powering the Sundara. It has a big noise floor, but I'd whipped up solution for that with some power resistors, placed in line between the amp output and the Sundara. That's its only downside, and the only reason I wouldn't recommend this amp for Sundara users. This noise floor was inaudible with the 6se.

It seems people just have to find the right combination that works for them. I think we can all agree with this. This hobby is more subjective than objective, anyway.

 

[Cat Whisperer Bob]

I certainly agree that it’s all about the equipment combo and very subjective. That’s what makes for these lively discussions. If everything was vanilla there would be nothing to talk about! Glad you gave your Sundaras singing well on your equipment. Enjoy!

 

[tigon_ridge]

Since you don’t believe me read the opinions of others on the Summit board. Not much mention of the Sundara there but lots - and mostly very positive about the 6 SE can be found there.

OK. You sure seemed to like them fine before you blew them up. I hope your opinion isn’t being influenced by that incident.

I’ve already posted a number of times about HFM pricing. It’s quite clear they could sell the Susvara direct for $999 and still make a very solid profit. The OG HEX v1 started at $1799, and closed as the v2 at $899. The HEK v2 sold for $3k then $2k, now $1399. Again harping on just the 6 SE seems to be following an agenda.

While so much of audiophile/high end is image/market driven, there are actual products that are worth more than a certain threshold. I found sublime enjoyment from some audio products - some low/mid/high priced. A few months ago I heard the Rall CA-1a and outside of 4 extremely expensive speaker systems (2 of mine) nothing else could compare, even the Susvara, D8000, LCD-4 200 ohm, Stax 007, 009, and the DCA Voce. At a lower price point the HE-500’s I picked up for $360 5 years ago with about $200 of mods/upgraded has been quite enjoyable, but with very similar mods/eq my $799 6SE v1 is a better listen for me and the Sundara in comparison was a waste of time outside of verifying it was of interest to me in joining my other HFM purchases past and present. I’m not changing my opinion and I think this discussion isn’t going to be interesting to others at this point. Please feel free to do as you like.

I think a lot of people are hesitant to post their opinions, if they think that their opinions would be very unpopular. Hence, you wouldn't often see people posting anything about the Sundara in a summit fi thread. First of all, I had to go through great lengths just to get what I've always wanted to hear from my Sundara. I'd already owned the Sundara for nearly two years, before I paired it with the Crown amp. The only reason why I reached out for a 6se v1 was because I found the Sundara wanting. It wasn't until the paired the Sundara with the Crown XLS, which was meant to be paired with the 6se, that I realized I'd been limiting the Sundara for years, due to not driving it with the right amp.

Therefore, I'm not surprised at the relative unpopularity of the Sundara, as a "summit-fi-capable" device. It's not like the average user goes out of their way to try powering their cheap headphones with multiple high-end amps (which is funny, because the Crown XLS is entry-level-priced), and definitely most users do not use parametric EQ, which took me quite some time and thought to dial in to my satisfaction.

I don't know why you think I'm trying to "single out" the 6se. I spoke only about the 6se, because it's the only one I've heard and owned, out of all of those megabucks headphones you listed. If that means I have an "agenda," then I guess that's what it is: my agenda is to share my experience and thoughts.

I’m not changing my opinion and I think this discussion isn’t going to be interesting to others at this point. Please feel free to do as you like.

I'm not trying to change your opinion. I'm just giving mines. I actually think any discussion is helpful. It's nice to get perspectives from multiple people. I certainly wouldn't have gone out to buy the 6se v1/v2 if it weren't for the perspectives of the 6se lovers. I find it odd that now that competing opinions are levied against the 6se, that suddenly a discussion is uninteresting. -shrug- I'll leave it to the readers to decide what's interesting, or uninteresting.

 

[bagwell359]

^ yes a back and forth with no resolution is tiresome at the very least, but I agree let the other folks take on the topic if they like.

I added comments to a post you put up about the HE-6 SE (positive) about a year ago in the Summit thread, and also somewhat negative comments you put up about the Sundara before you had the Crown 1502. So, why the reaction to my reaction on the Sundara without a Crown 1502 available to me?

I don’t need a reply, you have already supplied the answers with clarity.

 

[tigon_ridge]

^ yes a back and forth with no resolution is tiresome at the very least, but I agree let the other folks take on the topic if they like.

There needs no resolution, because to me there was no conflict...at least until I felt your tone getting somewhat impatient. I don't know why you think that I was trying to persuade you into thinking one way or another about either the Sundara, or the HE-6se. I was just giving my opinions of both headphones, and how they compare.

I added comments to a post you put up about the HE-6 SE (positive) about a year ago in the Summit thread, and also somewhat negative comments you put up about the Sundara before you had the Crown 1502. So, why the reaction to my reaction on the Sundara without a Crown 1502 available to me?

I don’t need a reply, you have already supplied the answers with clarity.

I'm not so sure that I've been thorough enough. No one ever needs a reply. I'm not going to bounce this discussion over to another thread. It stays here. You were the one who came here to defend (quite passionately I may add) the HE-6se against the Sundara, so moving the discussion over to the 6se seems confusing to me, and pointless.

So let's address your post just now over in the 6se thread.

"Also, we see that you really liked the HE-6 SE until you blew it up."

Let's be clear, before the HE-6se blew up, I had already gotten to enjoy it for about a couple weeks, listening at moderate to moderately-high volumes. During that entire period, I spent very, very little time with the Sundara, and in fact, I can't recall right now whether I was comparing the 6se v1 to the Sundara during that window. Let's also be clear: I did really like it. I still really like it. I don't think it's $500-worthy. Hence, I said that it's overrated. I didn't say that it's bad. It was only after the v1 blew up that I got to spend quality time with the Sundara + XLS combo, and I really, really loved it. However, audio memory being somewhat poor, I wanted to compare it very badly with the 6se, so I went ahead and bought the v2 to replace the v1. Then, I got to sit for days with both headphones, to compare them. Frankly, the difference was clear in the first few hours, and the difference was major.

If you want to know why the bass on the 6se with the XLS blew me away, there's two reasons:
1. The THX789 I had been using to power the 6se was frickin underwhelming. It simply hasn't enough power. I also thought the THX789's power rating may be skewed, because it didn't feel to me that it delivered the 3.7W into the 6se in BAL mode that it should've been able to do. The extra power from the XLS was immediately noticeable.
2. The XLS gave the 6se slightly more body throughout the entire frequency spectrum, and soundstage, which was a nice cherry on top, over the added power headroom.

However, after spending more time with Sundara (edit: in combination with the XLS)*, it was clear to me which has the better bass, both in terms of quality and quantity, when EQ is used.

 

[heino]

Just got my pair of black Sundara's; apparently an updated 2023 version:
On the box it now mentions 92 dB sensitivity and reduced weight of 342g. Found similar specs on the new silver edition in an unboxing video. My black Sundara included the upgraded cable, but still 1.5m length, not the extended cable of the silver edition with the travel pouch.

 

[lior777]

Hello everyone,
I purchased a sundara second-hand a year and a half ago.. is there a way to check which version is the new or the old?
Are there any differences in sound?

The bass is important to me and feels like it's missing here..I'm considering upgrading new beyerdynamic dt 770 pro x , what you say?

 

[ManuLM]

Hello everyone,
I purchased a sundara second-hand a year and a half ago.. is there a way to check which version is the new or the old?
Are there any differences in sound?

The bass is important to me and feels like it's missing here..I'm considering upgrading new bayere dt 770 pro x , what you say?

before moving to another pair of headphones, have you considered checking the amplification stage you are currently using ?

 

[lior777]

before moving to another pair of headphones, have you considered checking the amplification stage you are currently using ?

i have Venture Electronics VE megatron DAC dongle

what you can recommand to amp\dac?



i hear from people the hifiman xs is upgrade from sundara?

 

[SchwizzelKick66]

i have Venture Electronics VE megatron DAC dongle

what you can recommand to amp\dac?



i hear from people the hifiman xs is upgrade from sundara?

The Edition XS and Ananda Stealth are both a noticeable upgrade from the Sundara. They are currently $379 and $399 respectively on Hifiman's online store, which are both terrific deals.

I would say the Sundara has better overall tuning than the other two, or at least I prefer its slightly warmer and more mid-emphasized tuning to that of the other two. However the XS and Ananda SE are better in every other area.

I would say the Ananda SE is more of the next logical step if you like the Sundara. It will absolutely give you more and better bass response. Soundstage is a good amount wider, treble is much more refined, and its just a way bigger overall sound.

The Edition XS is more of a departure. Its slightly V shaped, with a bit more bass emphasis and some ore treble energy. This makes it a bit more "fun" vs the analytical nature of the Ananda SE. The soundstage on the XS is also wider than the Ananda SE, and it will definitely give you a wow factor coming from the Sundara.

Outside of analytical (Ananda SE) vs more fun (Edition XS), you have to evaluate each on how you think they will fit for you. The Ananda SE feels a lot like the Sundara on the head but with massive earcups. The Edition XS has a very loose clamp and doesn't have the suspension headband. Many people find it way too big and loose, which I was worried about, but luckily I find them quite comfortable.

Again either would be a nice upgrade from your Sundara and give you the bass you are craving.

 

[ManuLM]

Not knowing your dongle, I can't comment on its adequation with a pair of Sundaras.
Try to find out, for ex on this forum, how it is rated. Other recommended web sites / forum such as Audio Science Review (ASR) are very usefull for this kind of checks.
I personnaly use O2 amp, it is an excellent match for the Sundara.
Browsing the ASR reviews will very quickly give you a hint on the better amps, see here for example:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...lanced-headphone-amplifier-review-png.318636/

 

[ardilla]

Hello everyone,
I purchased a sundara second-hand a year and a half ago.. is there a way to check which version is the new or the old?
Are there any differences in sound?

The bass is important to me and feels like it's missing here..I'm considering upgrading new beyerdynamic dt 770 pro x , what you say?

The Sundara needs quote a lot of power to really get the bass going

 

[lior777]

The Sundara needs quote a lot of power to really get the bass going

hey there is usb dac recommand ?