[xSociety]

My Sundara set is coming tonight, so I'll try and give my initial impressions. Right now I'm using the 400i's after years and years of using nothing but my X2's.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

My Sundara set is coming tonight, so I'll try and give my initial impressions. Right now I'm using the 400i's after years and years of using nothing but my X2's.

Well they’re definitely not going to have as much bass as the X2’s.

 

[Selfish Android]

What i take from all the impressions i have seen is.

Sundara is a warmer 400i with better bass and a little wider soundstage, the big difference is in construction quality.

 

[s2kPanda]

So from what i've read this is essentially the HE-400Sundara

 

[xSociety]

Will obviously have to do more testing but initial impressions are VERY good. They're quieter on the same settings than the X2's but so are the 400i's so it's hard to get an apples to apples comparison. I immediately liked them better than the 400i's but am still unsure between them and the X2's. It's hard because they sound much better with different settings on my X7.

I just had some 650's too but did not like those at all. Maybe I'm just so used to the X2 signature, I have been using them since 2014 exclusively...

 

[mtoc]

put my bet on Sundara, Sundara has thinner diaphragm than he560 according to the folks within the folks

edit: put my bets

 

[Pharron]

Out of the box, at the moment, no physical/mental burn-in, I'd say yeah. Got so used to the 400i's sound sig that the HE560 will take adjusting to.
Not saying 400i is better...

560 has a larger soundstage, and more bass.

I've been listening to the 400i and 560 back to back today, and they are quite similar. I would say that the 560 is much more refined. It has that smooth HiFi sound, where the 400i can get harsh in places. The 560 is definitely harder to driver properly too. Bass gets lower, much lower on the 560, but the 400i has a good mid-bass punch. I find soundstage to be fairly similar on my copies. Of course the first 400i I had was terrible, and I had to send it back as it produced almost nothing in the lower frequencies. HiFiman still has some ground to cover with quality control. The 560 is a much better headphone, but is it good enough to earn its price increase? Not for me.

 

[Trunks159]

I've been listening to the 400i and 560 back to back today, and they are quite similar. I would say that the 560 is much more refined. It has that smooth HiFi sound, where the 400i can get harsh in places. The 560 is definitely harder to driver properly too. Bass gets lower, much lower on the 560, but the 400i has a good mid-bass punch. I find soundstage to be fairly similar on my copies. Of course the first 400i I had was terrible, and I had to send it back as it produced almost nothing in the lower frequencies. HiFiman still has some ground to cover with quality control. The 560 is a much better headphone, but is it good enough to earn its price increase? Not for me.

Yeah, I feel pretty much the same way.
The bass is definitely the biggest improvement, and I think the HE560 has a more even midrange, while the he400i specialized in lower mids.

Treble is slightly better also, but the differences between these two can be exaggerated.

I'm still waiting for that Sundara replacement.

 

[Brahmsian]

I've been listening to the 400i and 560 back to back today, and they are quite similar. I would say that the 560 is much more refined. It has that smooth HiFi sound, where the 400i can get harsh in places. The 560 is definitely harder to driver properly too. Bass gets lower, much lower on the 560, but the 400i has a good mid-bass punch. I find soundstage to be fairly similar on my copies. Of course the first 400i I had was terrible, and I had to send it back as it produced almost nothing in the lower frequencies. HiFiman still has some ground to cover with quality control. The 560 is a much better headphone, but is it good enough to earn its price increase? Not for me.

Interesting that your first 400i had terrible bass but not the new one. The one I had was like your first one. I don't agree with you that the 560 isn't worth the price increase. For me it absolutely is, but at the current prices. I would've agreed with you if the 560 was still $899 but then I would've thought the 400i was overpriced as well at $499. I think the two headphones are now perfectly priced.

 

[phthora]

Interesting that your first 400i had terrible bass but not the new one. The one I had was like your first one. I don't agree with you that the 560 isn't worth the price increase. For me it absolutely is, but at the current prices. I would've agreed with you if the 560 was still $899 but then I would've thought the 400i was overpriced as well at $499. I think the two headphones are now at their perfect prices.

$900 for the 560 is a hard sell these days, mostly because of the stiff competition around that price range (LCD-2, AEON, Elear, the occasional HD800 or TH900, for example), and the quality of the overall package (cable and pads that many dislike, spotty QC). I've always thought the 560 sounded like 900 bucks, but was built like 300. $500 is just about right. I think the 400i is a good, not great, value at $300.

I'm wondering how the Sundara stacks up against the 400i with Ori Lambskins. Those new pads really make the 400i sound like a baby LCD-2F. Still has that treble grain and less bass extension than is ideal, but at a total cost of $320 or so, it's a great headphone.

 

[Taverius]

$900 for the 560 is a hard sell these days, mostly because of the stiff competition around that price range (LCD-2, AEON, Elear, the occasional HD800 or TH900, for example), and the quality of the overall package (cable and pads that many dislike, spotty QC). I've always thought the 560 sounded like 900 bucks, but was built like 300. $500 is just about right. I think the 400i is a good, not great, value at $300.

It was totally worth the 499$ holiday price though.

I decided to bet on the old and picked one up, though I'd love to know how the Sundara stacks up against it, mostly in terms of soundstage and comfort.

 

[Mark Up]

From what I'm reading, it appears the Sundara will have less sub bass extension than the HE-560, and the Sundara and the HE-560 has less treble than 400i?

 

[phthora]

From what I'm reading, it appears the Sundara will have less sub bass extension than the HE-560, and the Sundara and the HE-560 has less treble than 400i?

The 560 definitely has more and better treble than the 400i. I don't know about the Sundara.

 

[Taverius]

More treble than the 560 would mean scaling Mount Beyer, or getting your skull trepanned by an HD700

Mine, modded, is already at the upper limits of good tasteas far as treble.

 

[Mark Up]

Thanks, well, the HE-560 is off my list. I'm more treble sensitive than most. Senn HD650 is more how I like treble (ducks under desk) I hear no "veil" (runs out of room to avoid shoes thrown).