HiFiMan Shangri-La Jr (New $8000 Electrostat)
Dec 18, 2023 at 12:37 PM Post #556 of 568
Hi, i'm curious if any of got a chance to compare the Shangri-La Jr amp to other electrostatic amplifiers, i'm mainly interested in a comparison with the bhse since they're both tube amplifiers.
Also do you think the amp would pair well with Stax sr-007?
I have currently CCS modded Stax srm-T1 amp form Mjolnir audio, i want to upgrade to the bhse but the price is just too much for me, so i'm considering the Shangri-La amp instead specifically for the sr-007
 
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Dec 18, 2023 at 1:47 PM Post #557 of 568
Hi, i'm curious if any of got a chance to compare the Shangri-La Jr amp to other electrostatic amplifiers, i'm mainly interested in a comparison with the bhse since they're both tube amplifiers.
Hmm, I was at a meet where both the BHSE and the Shangri-La Jr amp were present, and I have the SGL Jr headphone and listened to it on both amps, but I didn't do a back-to-back comparison of amps and the DACs were different when I listened to each. Plus it was meet conditions with people talking in the background.

I was not that impressed with the SGL Jr's amp from that demo. I use a CCS-modified SRM-006tS from Mjolnir Audio at home and I thought it was smoother than the SGL Jr amp. The Jr's amp seemed a bit more present in the upper bass and lower mids, but it also seemed a bit harsher in the treble. It's also a matter of synergy. I normally pair my 006t with the Ferrum Erco which has a punchier and more dynamic sound. The Erco with the Jr's amp made the SGL Jr headphone sound harsher and more aggressive. I suspect that if you wanted to use the Jr's amp, then you'd want a smoother DAC.

I didn't spend as long with the BHSE. I thought its bass (particularly lower bass) had more weight and it didn't have the harshness in the treble. But I didn't try it out with my Erco; didn't get the time during that meet.

Just to note that both amps are hybrid tube amps. The BHSE (and the SRM-006t/007t) use transistors for voltage gain and tubes for the output stage. I've read that the Jr amp uses tubes for the voltage gain and then transistors for the output. If it were me, I'd pick the BHSE over the Jr's amp as it's a known quality and it pairs well with many headphones. Another option is the KGST, which is a mini-BHSE that uses less powerful output tubes. Mjolnir Audio sells one, and HeadAmp is working on their own mini-BHSE that is effectively a KGST. The CCS+6S4A mod for the SRM-007t is a mini-KGST (or mini-mini-BHSE) since it uses the same basic architecture but with a smaller power supply.
 
Dec 18, 2023 at 1:53 PM Post #558 of 568
I think i made a mistake buying the sr-007 mk1 instead of es labs es-1 alpha or sr-009s i had good deal on both headphones but i went with the mk1 without taking into consideration it's power requirements.
Now i'm stuck with a fine setup but i'll probably never be satisfied until i have the bhse, but at that price... Damn it i just can't justify it.
 
Dec 18, 2023 at 1:59 PM Post #559 of 568
I think i made a mistake buying the sr-007 mk1 instead of es labs es-1 alpha or sr-009s i had good deal on both headphones but i went with the mk1 without taking into consideration it's power requirements.
Now i'm stuck with a fine setup but i'll probably never be satisfied until i have the bhse, but at that price... Damn it i just can't justify it.
I've heard that for the SR-007, a KGSSHV or Carbon is a better pairing and those are both cheaper than the BHSE. Current price of new BHSE in USD is 6500-8000, while the Carbon is 5400 from Mjolnir and the KGSSHV is 2750.

I would not buy the SGL Jr amp for the 007. I recall Fang Bian said that he thought the 3rd party electrostatic amps like the BHSE were "too powerful to be musical", so his amps are designed to be not as powerful as those.
 
Dec 18, 2023 at 2:10 PM Post #560 of 568
Hmm, I was at a meet where both the BHSE and the Shangri-La Jr amp were present, and I have the SGL Jr headphone and listened to it on both amps, but I didn't do a back-to-back comparison of amps and the DACs were different when I listened to each. Plus it was meet conditions with people talking in the background.

I was not that impressed with the SGL Jr's amp from that demo. I use a CCS-modified SRM-006tS from Mjolnir Audio at home and I thought it was smoother than the SGL Jr amp. The Jr's amp seemed a bit more present in the upper bass and lower mids, but it also seemed a bit harsher in the treble. It's also a matter of synergy. I normally pair my 006t with the Ferrum Erco which has a punchier and more dynamic sound. The Erco with the Jr's amp made the SGL Jr headphone sound harsher and more aggressive. I suspect that if you wanted to use the Jr's amp, then you'd want a smoother DAC.

I didn't spend as long with the BHSE. I thought its bass (particularly lower bass) had more weight and it didn't have the harshness in the treble. But I didn't try it out with my Erco; didn't get the time during that meet.

Just to note that both amps are hybrid tube amps. The BHSE (and the SRM-006t/007t) use transistors for voltage gain and tubes for the output stage. I've read that the Jr amp uses tubes for the voltage gain and then transistors for the output. If it were me, I'd pick the BHSE over the Jr's amp as it's a known quality and it pairs well with many headphones. Another option is the KGST, which is a mini-BHSE that uses less powerful output tubes. Mjolnir Audio sells one, and HeadAmp is working on their own mini-BHSE that is effectively a KGST. The CCS+6S4A mod for the SRM-007t is a mini-KGST (or mini-mini-BHSE) since it uses the same basic architecture but with a smaller power supply.
I own the SGL Jr Amp +Headphone and I can tell you that the combo is warm rich smooth and very revealing with a very extended frequency response without peaks that push certain character like the overwhelming bass of a CBN but make sure your Source is rich and natural also, the SGL combo is not a going to help hide any issues from your source
 
Dec 26, 2023 at 4:47 PM Post #561 of 568
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22 months later, I'm still loving my SGL Jr. In my experience it remains unbeaten at that fine balance between energetic and relaxing, and is well suited to both styles of listening. This was from last night's relaxation listening session. My chain is Walkman ZX707 -(USB)-> Ferrum Erco -(XLR)-> modded Stax SRM-006tS --> SGL Jr.
 
Jan 13, 2024 at 5:08 AM Post #562 of 568
I have ordered some linlai elites and will be tube rolling soon (I have the original shangri-la amp and headphones). I will report back once I try them :)
 
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Jan 20, 2024 at 10:46 AM Post #564 of 568
Interesting that you only replaced the tubes in the back. I presume then that the front 2 serve a different purpose than the rear 2?
 
Jan 20, 2024 at 11:36 AM Post #565 of 568
Yes, i had a bit of unbalance with the original tubes.playing with them the conclusion is that was one of the rears. Also the rears run really hot a glowing while fronts barely glow, so it seems to me rear have different function (more impact on sound) than fronts (I am sure someone that understand how this works can explain why)
Inbalance is gone and it sounds glorious.
God so happy....
 
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Feb 24, 2024 at 11:09 AM Post #566 of 568
Ok more tube rolling
Psavane mark 2
Incredible sounding, but it took around 100 hours to explode to glory. Also I needed to adjust bias... I wonder if any user has ever done it? I never did it before and was a bit intimidating but cool at the end
Sound never have been better.
GLORIOUS
 

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Mar 27, 2024 at 11:13 PM Post #567 of 568
Since early February I've had the privilege of also owning the Stax SR-X9000 alongside my Shangri-La Jr. Owning it and being able to compare it side-by-side with the SGL Jr allowed me to appreciate the strengths of both headphones. And the SGL Jr carves its own niche alongside the X9000 and holds on to a distinct and desirable presentation even in the face of the Stax's extreme technical prowess. My friend asked if I would sell the Jr to fund the X9000. No, I will not be selling the Jr, it will live alongside the X9000 as co-flagships of my open-back collection.

At a technical level, the SR-X9000 is a better headphone than the SGL Jr by a noticeable margin. More detail retrieval and incisiveness in note transients, particularly in resolving tiny rhythms in music that can often be hidden or smeared by background noise. More body to percussive instruments while retaining the crisp snap of the attack. More bass quantity as well as more apparent bass texture and an incredibly clear rendering of drum resonance/decay. A more even tonal balance with less emphasis in the upper treble, and less of the "breathy" coloration to vocals. A wider soundstage with a greater sense of spatial separation between sound elements and an unparalleled sense of layering of sounds. A sense of openness or "radiative" quality to notes that exceeds even what the SGL Jr can render. In every technical, audiophile sense, the X9000 is a more proficient headphone, and at last a true upgrade over what the SGL Jr can do.

But there is one issue with what the X9000 does. The midrange is too emphasized, which can often result in lead vocals and solo instruments being rendered too far forward spatially. And that one issue is "the root of all flaws" so to speak with the X9000. By pulling vocals and lead instruments forward, it splits them apart from the supporting instruments and background sounds. This is part of the layering and separation I mentioned earlier but taken too far. It's like an exploded view of the music, with each element split apart so that the listener can examine each one in detail. The vocals are also rendered too wide spatially, like the singer's mouth is stretched out between my eyeballs (lol). But this only occurs if the track is mastered to allow it. If the track doesn't have a forward-mixed lead vocal/instrument, then the X9000 can sound distant and recessed and I need to crank the volume to compensate. This occurs most often in orchestral works and soundtracks. The forwardness of the midrange can also cause the sense of forward depth to collapse and result in a flat and 2D image. This effect is exacerbated by some gear pairings which I'll mention later.

In comparison, the SGL Jr has less technical capability, but everything it does is cohesive. It renders a sense of a concert hall, and it sticks to that character across different tracks. It doesn't vary wildly in its presentation of sound from track to track. The soundstage isn't as wide, but there's a better definition of space within those bounds. The X9000 in comparison has what I call the "illusion of boundless space" since the layering makes it hard for me to lock on to where the stage boundaries are, so it can seem larger than it is. But sometimes this illusion is destroyed due to the forwardness of the X9000's midrange making it less consistent with its forward spatial depth than the SGL Jr. Vocals on the SGL Jr are slightly recessed overall, but still imaged in front of the backing instruments. The vocals are tonally colored with that breathy character, but that heightens the illusion that they're on a stage in front of me and singing into a large open space. By having greater forward distance to the vocals, it avoids making vocals too forward and wide. There's some loss of detail due to significant dips at 5.5K and 14K on the Jr which smears the attack of hi-hats and some cymbals, but it keeps them cohesive within the sound image rather than highlighting and separating them out like what the Staxen (L700mk2 and X9000) do. The Jr sacrifices that perception of crisp detail for softer hi-hats that add atmosphere and ambience to the sound without distracting the listener.

Percussion is an interesting case. While the X9000 balances the attack (the "crack" of the stick hitting the drumhead) with the body (the "whump" of the drum's resonance and decay) better with noticeably better body to percussion notes in addition to greater bass quantity, the emphasized attack and air of the SGL Jr results in cymbals, toms, and hi-hats sounding very tight, punchy, snappy, and airy, and I often find those qualities subjectively pleasing. One example is "Rest of My Life (feat. Medyk)" by Culture Code where the ending drop (from 2:00 to 2:46) includes fast and punchy electronic snares which sound so energetic on the Jr even though I hear more body and texture on the X9000. As an aside, I don't think I've reached the limit of what I can hear from the SGL Jr. When I heard the Jr on the BHSE + MDave setup at a recent meet, it had noticeably more bass presence on that setup than on my Ferrum Erco + CCS-modded SRM-006tS setup that I have. The Jr is less sensitive than the X9000 and I need to turn the volume up higher when I switch to the Jr. I'd love to upgrade to a more powerful amp for the SGL Jr.

A curious thing I found is that despite the X9000 and SGL Jr having overall pretty similar sonic characters, they're different enough that the gear synergies are different. Because the Jr has a smoother and softer sound with a recessed midrange, it pairs well with punchy source gear. I really like my Ferrum Erco with the Jr and I think its dynamic nature enhances the punch that it provides to percussion, brings the midrange forward, and adds a bit more bite to an otherwise extremely smooth upper treble. But those qualities are detrimental to the X9000. The Stax doesn't need a more forward midrange, and the added midrange dynamics actually result in that soundstage collapse I mentioned earlier where vocals get so forward that the entire image seems 2D, like notes are places on a line between my ears. The X9000 thus seems to benefit from less forward gear that emphasizes space. I did a lengthy pre-purchase demo of the X9000 on a Chord DAC and perhaps that is a path that I could go down. I would like to build another electrostatic setup optimized for the X9000 as my current one with the Erco and 006t is tailored for the SGL Jr, but that will have to wait for a few months. In any case, it seems that the X9000 is more synergy-sensitive than most other headphones, so I might as well take my time to find the right combo.

Anyways, that's my comparison of these two headphones that I enjoy greatly. The SR-X9000 is the more technically impressive headphone, and if we're tallying up points like a competition, it would easily win that contest. But going back to the SGL Jr is like coming back home after staying at a 5-star hotel. Sure, the linens aren't the finest Egyptian cotton, the bathroom floor isn't heated marble, and the toiletries aren't from fancy brands, but it feels like home; it feels right.
 
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