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[TOUR] Cayin N7 DAP : 1-bit Resistor Network DAC, Discrete LPF + HeadAmp

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• Start dateMar 6, 2023
• Tagscayin cayin n7

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Mar 21, 2023 at 3:49 PMPost #46 of 49
[IMG alt="wolfstar76"]https://cdn.head-fi.org/avatars/m/537/537398.jpg?1678658915[/IMG]

wolfstar76​

1000+ Head-Fier​

Thank you @Andykong, I am so glad to have the opportunity to review N7. Was planning to have in-depth demo this October in CanJam SoCal, but the environment is not ideal for DAP demo. Hope I will like N7 and could be my next purchase.

Headphones: ZMF Atrium, Hifiman HE6SE, Hifiman Sundara (sold), Sony MDR-V6, Sennheiser HD 598
IEM/TWS: Sony IER-Z1R, TINHIFI P1 MAX, Focus EDM, Unique Melody Mk2 (sold), Thieaudio Monarch (w/ Mk2 cable), Audiosense T800 (sold), Etymotic ER4XR, KZ AS10, Airpods Pro, Jabra Elite 65T, Jaybird X3, Sony WH-1000xm3, Sony WF-1000XM4, Sony Linkbuds WFL900
Source: Hagerman Tuba, Flux FA-10, NFJ&FX Audio tube preamp, Schiit Multibit Modi 2, Schiit Modi 3+/Magni Heresy, Lotoo PAW S1, Cayin RU6, Hiby RS2, Sony NW-WM1A, Astell&Kern Kann Alpha (sold), iBasso DX160, Sony NW-A55, Shanling M0, Ipod Nano
Looking to buy: ZMF Verite Closed
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Mar 22, 2023 at 7:34 AMPost #47 of 49
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Wiljen​

Headphoneus Supremus​

sweet, Thank you Andy, always fun doing these tours. Looking forward to something really cool in the N7.

Author of audiofool.reviews
Home: Dell Precision Laptop -> Auris Euterpe / Burson Swing/Fun/ > CF Cascade, HD800, He6se
Office: Dell E7440 -> Audio-GD NFB 11.28 > B&W P5, Dekoni Blue
Travel: DTR1 with Hifiman Re2000 Silver or JH14s, Shanling M5s with Eartech Quint.
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Mar 22, 2023 at 8:53 PMPost #48 of 49
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berger​

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Congrats to the chosen ones. Looking forward to reading your reviews.

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Mar 28, 2023 at 11:55 PMPost #49 of 49
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ECKHUAAA​

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Since I have my own copy of the N7, I will write my review which will be based mostly on my listening experience so far.

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Apr 6, 2023 at 2:58 PMPost #50 of 50
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ECKHUAAA​

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I will now write my review here.
This review will also cover the HIFIMAN Shangri-la Jr electrostat and Arctic Cable Opera balanced to XLR interconnect from Cayin N7 to HIFIMAN eStat. Amplifier
For the N7 amplification I used HIFIMAN HE1000SE and the HIFIMAN Edition XS (Stealth magnets version)
For N7 Wonderfully innovative DAC, I used the HIFIMAN Shangri-la Jr System (amplifier and headphone) and to be sure that the Signal going from N7 to Shangri-la Jr electrostat Amplifier is pure and complete I use the only cable I have come to trust, Arctic Cable Silver/palladium Opera Cable( there is a huge difference when used)
I have owned many Cayin DAPs over the years starting from those tiny N3, N5 to N6ii-E02, N6ii-RO1(R2R DAC) to the Wonderful N8ii and now the new N7. I have stuck with Cayin because of their focus on getting as natural a sound as possible from any hardware they had to work with, that passion I believe continues till date. When I upgraded my motherboard from the E02 to R01 an R2R DAC based DAP, the amazing natural detailed and extended range sound exuding from this device suddenly made me realize that my then beloved Fostex T60RP(a plannar) was no longer revealing all the details, it was very clear I has to upgrade. This is how I got to know HIFIMAN, noted for plannar magnetic headphones too, but they also shared a passion for natural, detailed and extended frequency response and great value for money like Cayin. Hence I find these two match perfectly (for me anyway).

The N7 from my listening experience is the best DAP from Cayin today, let me say it now, I am keeping my N8ii and N6ii-RO1 also
The N7 requires a rather extended break-in time, it sounds great immediately yes, but you just wait for about 3weeks, this may be because of the extensive use of discrete components in the build.
It is extremely resolving, a champion of inner details resolution, layering, 3D soundstage, natural rich tonality, listen to very well recorded violins or strings in general and you will smile, because of the tonal accuracy piano sounds are also ecstatic, revealing many tonal colors and depth and for vocals wow just accurate and natural, not dripping because of coloration..no, just right. I believe when a device has a natural frequency response that is naturally even and very extended it is able to reproduce fundamental frequencies and proper odd and even harmonic content of each instrumental notes that give them character even as the performers themselves based on how they play can alter the relative quantity of these odd and even harmonics relative to the fundamental to create their own individual sounds. This is what I enjoy most in the Cayin N7 and these qualities are allowed to come through very clearly by the Arctic Cable palladium to the HIFIMAN Shangri-la Jr electrostat to my ears.
The Shangri-la Jr has a stated frequency response of 7hz to 120khz!, it is a very revealing system(transparent) don't try to drive it with another amplifier, doing so will emphasize one aspect at the detriment of another. The bass is very deep, the mids very natural and the highs very extended and smooth. A real bargain. Any complaints you may have about the sound, check your input device and cables instead.
The N7 bit stream DAC is phenomenal, with the Arctic Cable palladium connecting it to the Shangri-la jr. You will hear immediacy, natural punch, brilliance, a lot of details, a liveliness that even HIFIMAN other plannars can't match, as good as they all are, but that eStat. Speed makes all the difference.
At this point you are all wandering how does the N7 compare with the N8ii and even maybe the Cayin’s R2R DAP N6ii-RO1, in my opinion based on listening, not because I am trying to protect my previous purchases, it betters all of them. N6ii-RO1 is great but it does not have the details nor the driving ability of the N8ii, though a bit more organic, just a bit, N8ii design is quite sophisticated especially the Tube amp. N7 and N8ii are a bit close when playing flac or Mp3 recordings N7 being a bit brighter and punchier and fuller(more extended) N8ii tube amp gives a feeling of being wider sound, the big difference comes when you play a DSD file, OMG, the N7 just knocks the socks off any competition local and foreign . Try these recordings to see what I am talking about, Carmen Gomes "Thousand Shades of Blue" DSD512f, the realism of the drums, bass, cymbals not to mention her voice wow!!! Then go over to the Shangri-la jr to hear this and the vividness could be a shock. The clarity of her diction, the emotional expression will knock your socks off. Listening via the HIFIMAN HE1000SE you will hear some of these too but not as vivid, the HIFIMAN Edition XS does not shame itself here either, this is another superb performer for those on a budget. The piano tones, listen to the new release on BIS label 192kz/24bit "Echo" especially the 5tracks contributed by Huw Watkins, who also played the piano on this album. The piano tones all ring through in various colors like sparkling diamonds.
For strings(violin) try the Harmonia mundi release of Isabelle Faust -violin and Anna Prohaska- Soprano of Gyorgy Kurtags "kafka-Fragmente)... spellbinding!, for large orchestra
I used the Gustav Mahler's 7th Symphony Budapest Festival Orchestra a DSD recording ..I was transported to another world where the music continued endlessly!. Another recording I need to mention here is ECM recording of Stephan Micus' "Thunder" Stunning especially on that Title track you will actually see clouds gather in the sky the drums, the strange traditional horn instrument used and those tiny chimes that are Never masked inspite of the power of the other percussions instruments...a testament to how N7/Shangri-la Jr tracks every sound in your mix
Enjoy

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Have you compared the DAPs to a full desktop streamer + DAC combo? Curious as to which source setup would sound better for Shang JR (DAP vs streamer/DAC).

 

[ECKHUAAA]

This review covers the HIFIMAN Shangri-la Jr electrostat driven by Cayin N7 and Arctic Cable Opera balanced to XLR interconnect from Cayin N7 to HIFIMAN eStat. Amplifier
For the N7 amplification I used HIFIMAN HE1000SE and the HIFIMAN Edition XS (Stealth magnets version)
For N7 Wonderfully innovative DAC, I used the HIFIMAN Shangri-la Jr System (amplifier and headphone) and to be sure that the Signal going from N7 to Shangri-la Jr electrostat Amplifier is pure and complete I use the only cable I have come to trust, Arctic Cable Silver/palladium Opera Cable( there is a huge difference when used)
I have owned many Cayin DAPs over the years starting from those tiny N3, N5 to N6ii-E02, N6ii-RO1(R2R DAC) to the Wonderful N8ii and now the new N7. I have stuck with Cayin because of their focus on getting as natural a sound as possible from any hardware they had to work with, that passion I believe continues till date. When I upgraded my motherboard from the E02 to R01 an R2R DAC based DAP, the amazing natural detailed and extended range sound exuding from this device suddenly made me realize that my then beloved Fostex T60RP(a plannar) was no longer revealing all the details, it was very clear I has to upgrade. This is how I got to know HIFIMAN, noted for plannar magnetic headphones too, but they also shared a passion for natural, detailed and extended frequency response and great value for money like Cayin. Hence I find these two match perfectly (for me anyway).

The N7 from my listening experience is the best DAP from Cayin today, let me say it now, I am keeping my N8ii and N6ii-RO1 also
The N7 requires a rather extended break-in time, it sounds great immediately yes, but you just wait for about 3weeks, this may be because of the extensive use of discrete components in the build.
It is extremely resolving, a champion of inner details resolution, layering, 3D soundstage, natural rich tonality, listen to very well recorded violins or strings in general and you will smile, because of the tonal accuracy piano sounds are also ecstatic, revealing many tonal colors and depth and for vocals wow just accurate and natural, not dripping because of coloration..no, just right. I believe when a device has a natural frequency response that is naturally even and very extended it is able to reproduce fundamental frequencies and proper odd and even harmonic content of each instrumental notes that give them character even as the performers themselves based on how they play can alter the relative quantity of these odd and even harmonics relative to the fundamental to create their own individual sounds. This is what I enjoy most in the Cayin N7 and these qualities are allowed to come through very clearly by the Arctic Cable palladium to the HIFIMAN Shangri-la Jr electrostat to my ears.
The Shangri-la Jr has a stated frequency response of 7hz to 120khz!, it is a very revealing system(transparent) don't try to drive it with another amplifier, doing so will emphasize one aspect at the detriment of another. The bass is very deep, the mids very natural and the highs very extended and smooth. A real bargain. Any complaints you may have about the sound, check your input device and cables instead.
The N7 bit stream DAC is phenomenal, with the Arctic Cable palladium connecting it to the Shangri-la jr. You will hear immediacy, natural punch, brilliance, a lot of details, a liveliness that even HIFIMAN other plannars can't match, as good as they all are, but that eStat. Speed makes all the difference.
At this point you are all wandering how does the N7 compare with the N8ii and even maybe the Cayin’s R2R DAP N6ii-RO1, in my opinion based on listening, not because I am trying to protect my previous purchases, it betters all of them. N6ii-RO1 is great but it does not have the details nor the driving ability of the N8ii, though a bit more organic, just a bit, N8ii design is quite sophisticated especially the Tube amp. N7 and N8ii are a bit close when playing flac or Mp3 recordings N7 being a bit brighter and punchier and fuller(more extended) N8ii tube amp gives a feeling of being wider sound, the big difference comes when you play a DSD file, OMG, the N7 just knocks the socks off any competition local and foreign . Try these recordings to see what I am talking about, Carmen Gomes "Thousand Shades of Blue" DSD512f, the realism of the drums, bass, cymbals not to mention her voice wow!!! Then go over to the Shangri-la jr to hear this and the vividness could be a shock. The clarity of her diction, the emotional expression will knock your socks off. Listening via the HIFIMAN HE1000SE you will hear some of these too but not as vivid, the HIFIMAN Edition XS does not shame itself here either, this is another superb performer for those on a budget. The piano tones, listen to the new release on BIS label 192kz/24bit "Echo" especially the 5tracks contributed by Huw Watkins, who also played the piano on this album. The piano tones all ring through in various colors like sparkling diamonds.
For strings(violin) try the Harmonia mundi release of Isabelle Faust -violin and Anna Prohaska- Soprano of Gyorgy Kurtags "kafka-Fragmente)... spellbinding!, for large orchestra
I used the Gustav Mahler's 7th Symphony Budapest Festival Orchestra a DSD recording ..I was transported to another world where the music continued endlessly!. Another recording I need to mention here is ECM recording of Stephan Micus' "Thunder" Stunning especially on that Title track you will actually see clouds gather in the sky the drums, the strange traditional horn instrument used and those tiny chimes that are Never masked inspite of the power of the other percussions instruments...a testament to how N7/Shangri-la Jr tracks every sound in your mix
Enjoy

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[seacard]

I'm really enjoying my Shangi La Jr (in fact, so much so that I'm selling my CRBN and the Stax 009), but curious about suggested eq settings. I have the RME DAC, so would love to get recommendations on how to program the 5 band eq on the RME. I've added a bit of a bass shelf (+3.0, 80hz, Q=.7), which hasn't hurt, but is there a consensus on the rest of the spectrum?

 

[SolarCetacean]

I'm really enjoying my Shangi La Jr (in fact, so much so that I'm selling my CRBN and the Stax 009), but curious about suggested eq settings. I have the RME DAC, so would love to get recommendations on how to program the 5 band eq on the RME. I've added a bit of a bass shelf (+3.0, 80hz, Q=.7), which hasn't hurt, but is there a consensus on the rest of the spectrum?

Not a consensus that I have found, but from my experimentation, the main region to EQ is the 1-5 KHz region, and you should only need 3 or so filters. I generally use these 3:
Peak 2000 Hz, +3 dB, Q=1: Removes the recession between 1K and 2.5K
Peak 3100 Hz, -2 dB, Q=4: Removes the sudden peak at 3K and rounds out the transition from the 2KHz region
Peak 4600 Hz, -2 dB, Q=5: Removes a peak at 4.5K

Depending on the amp, I sometimes add a small boost at 14 KHz, Q=5. There's something happening there on low-power amps that can cause a narrow dip in that region which introduces some "lispiness" to the sound. If the treble is too much, I would suggest a -2 dB high shelf at 15 KHz or so to reduce the upper treble, but personally, I really like the air region on the SGL Jr; it's my favorite treble presentation of any headphone I've heard thus far.

Note that there's something odd about the 5.5 KHz region. There's a narrow dip there in the measurements which I've also heard in sine sweeps, but if you EQ out that dip, the sound becomes extremely sharp and harsh when actual music is played. However, it does add more "bite" to the sound and counters the lispiness that I described earlier (the combination of the 5.5K dip and the 14K dip alongside the rest of the overall treble elevation produces that effect), but at the cost of sibilance and harshness. I would make sure the total boost (sum of all filters) in that 5.5K region isn't more than +1 dB.

There are a few other supplementary filters that I have in my Harman target preset for the SGL Jr (tiny cut at 800 Hz and boost at 1.2 KHz), but those aren't strictly necessary. The result of the 3 filters above in my experience is to increase the richness of vocals and strings at the cost of some of the openness of the sound. It basically "expands" the center image (usually the main vocal), as if the singer is closer and larger, and is singing directly at you. The background instruments are pulled forward to be roughly in line with the vocals in a sort of arc in front of you. Imagine holding a piece of paper in front of you by the left and right edges, then curving it inwards towards you; that's the sort of effect I find happens with that EQ. Going back to stock makes the sound more open, like the singer or band is playing into a large open space and you're sitting in that space listening to them. Both EQ and stock are good and enjoyable, they're just different flavors of sound. I hope this helps!

 

[SolarCetacean]

I'm back home now and did more EQ experimentation. I have two sets of Harman-targeted EQ settings, one based on crinacle's measurements and the other based on VSG's measurements. And keep in mind that each unit has some unit variation. The EQ filters I posted above were from memory while I was travelling, so these should be more accurate, though the earlier ones are pretty close.

VSG-based preset:
Preamp: -6.9 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 2000 Hz Gain 3.0 dB Q 1.000
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 3100 Hz Gain -3.0 dB Q 4.000
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 4600 Hz Gain -1.5 dB Q 5.000
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 230 Hz Gain -1.3 dB Q 1.400
Filter 5: ON LSC Fc 75 Hz Gain 7.0 dB Q 0.650
Manually added:
High Shelf Fc 18000 Hz Gain -3.0 dB Q 0.78

Personally, I would add another filter to the VSG preset:
Peak 800 Hz, Gain -0.7 dB, Q 3
I find that the broad 2 KHz boost in the VSG preset causes the 700-1000 Hz region to be too elevated on my particular unit, resulting in many vocals being too raspy-sounding. I personally like having a slightly elevated 800 Hz region, because I often like that extra bit of raspiness in vocals (I think it adds some "emotiveness" to the sound), but the plain VSG preset overdoes that region. It probably stems from unit variation, as crinacle's measurement shows the Jr having a small bump in that area while VSG's does not, so if my unit measures closer to crinacle's that area will have too much of a boost when using a preset based on VSG's measurement.

crinacle-based preset:
Preamp: -7.3 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 800 Hz Gain -0.7 dB Q 3.000
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 2000 Hz Gain 4.0 dB Q 1.600
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 3100 Hz Gain -2.1 dB Q 3.000
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 4600 Hz Gain -3.0 dB Q 3.000
Filter 5: ON LSC Fc 75 Hz Gain 7.7 dB Q 0.560
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 220 Hz Gain -1.2 dB Q 1.000
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 1200 Hz Gain 0.6 dB Q 4.000
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 5800 Hz Gain 0.8 dB Q 5.000
Filter 9: ON HSC Fc 13000 Hz Gain -3.0 dB Q 0.71

Crinacle's measurements show more overshoot in the 3-5 KHz region compared to VSG's as well as more treble overall. When roughly volume-matching the two presets, crinacle's preset is generally darker and more subdued, with slightly smaller soundstage. There's less brilliance in female vocals, but with a bit more thickness.

Feel free to experiment with the above filters. I have several other hybrid settings that start with one of the presets but modify/remove filters to craft different flavors of sound.

 

[TheAbyss2022]

Hi all,

I am looking to save up for a higher end Hifiman headphone but I do not want to break the bank and spend so much on the gear to drive the Susvara properly. So this leads me to the Shangri La Jr which is not much more than a new Susvara and it obviously comes with the tube amplifier that drives the headphone to the fullest. As a current HEKSE owner I really enjoy the Hifiman house sound and I only have a Cayin HA-3A & Topping D90 which will not drive the Susvara to its potential.

So I was wondering if the Shangri La JR is overall better headphone than the Susvara or does the Susvara beat it out if driven to its fullest?

 

[JLoud]

I have owned the HE1000v2, the Jr and Susvara. The Susvara is my favorite of the three. Just the most natural sounding. The HE1000 has the biggest soundstage while the Jr is probably the fastest. The Susvara is a combination of the best aspects of both.

 

[BassicScience]

Hi all,

I am looking to save up for a higher end Hifiman headphone but I do not want to break the bank and spend so much on the gear to drive the Susvara properly. So this leads me to the Shangri La Jr which is not much more than a new Susvara and it obviously comes with the tube amplifier that drives the headphone to the fullest. As a current HEKSE owner I really enjoy the Hifiman house sound and I only have a Cayin HA-3A & Topping D90 which will not drive the Susvara to its potential.

So I was wondering if the Shangri La JR is overall better headphone than the Susvara or does the Susvara beat it out if driven to its fullest?

They're both fantastic headphones, especially for those who like the Hifiman "house sound". In the abstract, I'd recommend the Susvara since it's the more genre-agnostic of the two, and I also place slightly higher value on Susvara's superior bass response over the Shang Jr's added clarity and sharpness. If you listen primarily to classical, jazz, and acoustic music, the Shang Jr. perhaps pulls ahead. Likewise, if you can never get enough detail resolution. If you prefer a more organic sound, Susvara is the ticket. One thing to note is that I consider a 3 dB bass shelf with the Shang Jr. more or less mandatory. Even then, you won't get the lower end weight and extension of a well-amped Susvara, however.

In the end analysis, you should ideally try to listen to both headphones before committing if this will be a purchase that you're saving up for. OTOH, you won't really go wrong either way.

 

[bluesaint]

My 2 cent is that Susvara is jack of all trades, master of none. It's well rounded when powered. Sounds anemic when it isn't, and you would be better off with their newer various stealth+nano easier to drive cans. The Jr lacks the bass and depth of soundstage to me, but the layering and detail is better.

 

[SolarCetacean]

I might be the outlier amongst Jr owners by having a mid-tier DAC, but I'm demoing the Ferrum Erco right now and it's a substantial upgrade for the Shangri-La Jr compared to the FiiO K9 Pro that I have now. The punch and dynamics that the Erco adds to the sound pairs complements the Jr's intrinsic sound nicely. I don't think I've mentioned it in this thread, but in the past few months I have been using Fabfilter Pro Q 3 and its dynamic EQ capabilities to add more punch to the Jr via dynamic bass shelves that detect transients in the signal and boost the bass when they occur there. That adds that sense of punch when bass notes strike that is impossible with standard parametric EQ. The Erco does that sort of dynamic range expansion, but across the entire frequency spectrum and in a very cohesive way that adds punch and slam to the bass, more presence to vocals, and helps background details "pop" in the mix. I've turned off all of my EQ and I have yet to find the desire to turn it back on.

The only issue with the Erco's sound is that the added dynamics can make aggressively mastered tracks sharper and more difficult to listen to. The Jr's treble is very elevated, and it's normally smooth enough to just avoid being harsh, but the larger dynamic swings in the treble can occasionally push it into that territory. But that has been a rare reaction for me as I rediscover my music library.

 

[ECKHUAAA]

They're both fantastic headphones, especially for those who like the Hifiman "house sound". In the abstract, I'd recommend the Susvara since it's the more genre-agnostic of the two, and I also place slightly higher value on Susvara's superior bass response over the Shang Jr's added clarity and sharpness. If you listen primarily to classical, jazz, and acoustic music, the Shang Jr. perhaps pulls ahead. Likewise, if you can never get enough detail resolution. If you prefer a more organic sound, Susvara is the ticket. One thing to note is that I consider a 3 dB bass shelf with the Shang Jr. more or less mandatory. Even then, you won't get the lower end weight and extension of a well-amped Susvara, however.

In the end analysis, you should ideally try to listen to both headphones before committing if this will be a purchase that you're saving up for. OTOH, you won't really go wrong either way.

My 3cents is the Shangri-la jr strives for perfection without breaking the bank like its senior a cost no object headphones system
With top notch cables and DAP, (I use the Cayin N7 bit stream decrete component DAC DAP with balanced RJ45 Arctic Cables Opera
The result is very satisfactory on all genres of music you play, with volume at 1 tick beyond middle or 2, you will hear unbelievable detail 3D, layering, depth, reality and natural tones
And with DSD512F recordings you will be ecstatic.

 

[SolarCetacean]

Does anyone know what amp topology is used in the Jr's amp? I was at a meet last weekend and someone brought the Jr's amp so I was able to listen to it with my Jr, which I had never done before. The tubes are 6SN7, and there are 4 of them, and since 6SN7s are dual-triodes, there's probably some parallel summing of their outputs, but the tubes also weren't very hot after running for a few hours, which makes me suspect they're used for voltage gain instead of output. In contrast, my Stax tube amp uses 6CG7s (electrically equivalent to 6SN7) as output tubes, and they get hot! I thus suspect that the output is handled by transistors and the tubes are for voltage gain.

Anyways, I listened to the Jr amp for a while, but unfortunately, meet conditions were loud and not conducive to actually evaluating source gear. That being said, my main impressions is that the full Jr combo probably benefits from a mellower DAC, because when I tried the combo with my Ferrum Erco supercharged with some snake-oil tweaks to make it even more dynamic and punchier, I think that chain went a bridge too far. The clarity was through the roof due to the increased dynamics (particularly in the treble), but it crossed the line into harsh and piercing. This makes amp/DAC choice a bit tricky, because I love that clarity from the Erco, but it does push the SGL Jr, which was able to ride the line between airy and sharp, over that line. Maybe I'll try the Stax SRM-700T next.

I suppose this means that the Jr is indeed "transparent" or "revealing" of the source. For the longest time I used a smoother-sounding DAC and the sound was treble-heavy but smooth. Then I moved to a more dynamic and energetic DAC and the sound was more energetic. And when I made that DAC even more energetic, the energy on the Jr increased in kind, but then it exceeded what its tuning/tonality could allow without fatigue.

 

[SolarCetacean]

A few people have asked for Susvara comparisons, and I've been wondering about it too. I got the chance to listen to the Susvara and a few other high-end headphones for 3 hours at HeadAmp earlier today. I did not bring along my SGL Jr, unfortunately, as there would be too many headphones for the given time. So my comparison has to be from memory, first of the Jr when listening to the Susvara and then of the Susvara when back home listening to the Jr.

My impression is that they are quite similar in overall presentation. The first line of my written notes: "A lot like the SGL Jr". Vocals are generally further back and thinner, layering is good, and the presentations on both are cohesive in their imaging. The Susvara has a bit more bass punch and the sub-bass is more present in the sound. The vocals are a bit richer, less breathy, a bit more incisive, but also a bit scratchier. The other side is that the Susvara seems slightly less open and sound elements sound a bit closer in than on the Jr. The treble components in drum hits are more present, so the treble in general is a bit sharper, more incisive (the Jr's treble can sometimes be too smooth where definition in the leading edges of notes is blurred), a bit more sibilant, and a bit "crunchier" as opposed to the smoothness of the Jr's treble. For songs with a lot of noise-esque components in the upper treble (the EDM I like to listen to often contains it), the Jr presents that sound more like pink noise, this smooth "ssshhhhhh" while the Susvara gives it more of that "shrshrshr" texture, hence "crunchy". That goes hand-in-hand with the generally more incisive presentation to Susvara treble. I generally didn't have issue with the Susvara's treble (while other people do), but I can see where they're coming from. There's a bit of extra sizzle with the leading edges of percussion notes in particular that can stick out in the presentation.

I'd compare the relation to two characters in an RPG with the same overall points distribution, but the Susvara allocated one point extra to sub-bass and another point to vocal richness, while the SGL Jr took those two points and allocated them to soundstaging/openness and treble smoothness. This is similar to what others have observed. I tend to prioritize openness in the sound, so I personally didn't see much of a reason to get the Susvara based on the demo. I don't mind the breathier vocals - in fact, I like how they make vocal songs sound a bit more like power ballads. In addition, there's the issue of needing a more powerful source for the Susvara. The HeadAmp crew set up their prototype CFA3 amplifier, which drove the Susvara with lots of power, more than the GSX I used at CAF. I suspect that the SGL Jr's bass will improve once I upgrade my electrostatic amplifier, so perhaps the bass gap will narrow once that occurs. If (or really when) I go back to HeadAmp for another demo, I'll bring the SGL Jr along for a direct comparison.

 

[tunes]

My understanding after many reviews is that on one of the TOTL tube or SS/tube hybrids (e.g. Hifman EF1000, Riviera, Envy with Elrog upgrade and Woo WA33) the sound stage really opens up on the Susvara making it better than the SGL in many respects. All subjective though.

 

[Omerg1]

Hi, i'm curious if any of got a chance to compare the Shangri-La Jr amp to other electrostatic amplifiers, i'm mainly interested in a comparison with the bhse since they're both tube amplifiers.