BreadMaster
100+ Head-Fier
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That’s better don’t buy the Jr not worth 4K
HiFiMan Shangri-La Jr (New $8000 Electrostat)
No sense. Since I have an amp already.That’s better don’t buy the Jr not worth 4K
Wow, what a thread. Lot of negative energy here. Kudos to those who actually purchased the product and enjoy it.
What I find curious about this product is Hifiman hasn't released a 20k product between the JR and the SR. Is this product omission evidence that Hifiman JR actually is remarkable value for the money? Did Hifiman nail it first try? Hmmmm
What I find curious about this product is Hifiman hasn't released a 20k product between the JR and the SR. Is this product omission evidence that Hifiman JR actually is remarkable value for the money? Did Hifiman nail it first try? Hmmmm
bagwell359
Headphoneus Supremus
I like the Jr amp... very nice with Voce and 007.
I could not resist and bought a set of SGL jr, used. They arrived today.
initial impressions
Build
-- the build is much more "factory" than my Jade (the original Jade, so basically hand-crafted)
-- cable is actually ok, not nearly as bad as what Spritzer's tear-down photos make them appear to be. The plug is beefy and nice, but the wires are very very thin, I can barely feel them under the techflex braid. Doesn't matter for me, though, I will most likely cut the cable at 12" from the ear cups and add mini 3-pin Kobiconn ends, so I can use it with my silver teflon cable. I will probably do that after the warranty expires.
-- headband is steel, yoke and ear cup housings appear to be aluminum. Not super elegant but strong and perfectly functional.
Main concerns so far:
-- thin cable wires
-- the ear cup grill bars have sharp edges, at least on the outside, which makes me think it would be the same on the inside, I wonder if that can cause some kind of sound reflection/refraction problem?
--I don't see a dust cover film layer between the driver and housing grill, never mind, the film is there, it is between the silver mesh (the actual grill of the driver) and the gold mesh (stator). The aluminum grill bars are just there for the looks.... probably should be cut off !
Sound:
** running off my modded SRM-1 (not the MK2), with FT3 output capacitors
initial impression is that the JR sound is warmer, darker, fuller, with better details than the Jade, and better focus and imaging.
Kind of reminds me of what I felt when I listened to, at meets, a system with 007mk1 + BHSE. (the sound can be a little sharp at times but is precise and shows emotion well. Very unforgiving though, makes lesser quality recordings unenjoyable).
I don't have a pair of 007mk1 nor a "proper" amp to do a proper comparison, maybe I can get that done at the next Denver meet, when it happens.
initial impressions
Build
-- the build is much more "factory" than my Jade (the original Jade, so basically hand-crafted)
-- cable is actually ok, not nearly as bad as what Spritzer's tear-down photos make them appear to be. The plug is beefy and nice, but the wires are very very thin, I can barely feel them under the techflex braid. Doesn't matter for me, though, I will most likely cut the cable at 12" from the ear cups and add mini 3-pin Kobiconn ends, so I can use it with my silver teflon cable. I will probably do that after the warranty expires.
-- headband is steel, yoke and ear cup housings appear to be aluminum. Not super elegant but strong and perfectly functional.
Main concerns so far:
-- thin cable wires
-- the ear cup grill bars have sharp edges, at least on the outside, which makes me think it would be the same on the inside, I wonder if that can cause some kind of sound reflection/refraction problem?
--
Sound:
** running off my modded SRM-1 (not the MK2), with FT3 output capacitors
initial impression is that the JR sound is warmer, darker, fuller, with better details than the Jade, and better focus and imaging.
Kind of reminds me of what I felt when I listened to, at meets, a system with 007mk1 + BHSE. (the sound can be a little sharp at times but is precise and shows emotion well. Very unforgiving though, makes lesser quality recordings unenjoyable).
I don't have a pair of 007mk1 nor a "proper" amp to do a proper comparison, maybe I can get that done at the next Denver meet, when it happens.
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Stax 007 vs Shangri La Jr (sgl-jr)
Bought a pair of 007mk1 and took the first listen today.
This particular pair is in pretty good shape considering the age, probably 90~95% condition, the only worn spot being the elastic strap of headband is not very elastic anymore. Pads are in good shape and soft. Serial range 71xxx.
Source: modded Fiio x3 classic. The mod is basically changing the line-out signal caps to Mundorf Silver oil.
interconnect: 28 gauge silver/cotton quad braid.
^^^ the two components above are not considered as "warm" sounding. They are slightly bright if anything.
Amp: SRM-1 (not MK2) with FT3 aluminum teflon caps as output.
-- the sound sig of FT3 is smooth and rather neutral, maybe slightly dull comparing to the more audiophile-grade teflon caps such as TFT, but not considered as a "warm" component.
-- overall sound sig of the amp is neutral (Lambda 303 sounds bright with this setup)
-- this amp is not very powerful, the output stage idles at about 2.5mA.
with 007
-- very warm sound. Good tonal details, top end a bit soft; the sound is on the dark side;
-- some slight sibilence when listening to Eva Cassidy songs (Live at Blues Ally album).
-- Stage not very wide, I wouldn't call it closed-in but it is no wide. Good imaging/focus.
-- shows emotions well, but not great.
-- bass texture ok, kind of loose; some distortion when playing bass-heavy songs (007 trying to do heavy impact but the amp not able to keep up --> distortion?). The distortion situation did not improve by lowering the volume, so it might be a "not enough current supply" instead of "not enough voltage swing" thing.
*** wear comfort: pads are very soft and comfy but the clamping pressure is quite heavy, started to feel it after about 30 minutes.
phones (not including cable) weight 390 grams.
with Shangri La Jr
-- the sgl-jr sounded noticeably more open, more spacious, finer/more-detailed (at least details more "visible"), much better "there" feel when listening to live concert recordings.
-- slightly warm, but not nearly as warm as 007
-- smooth sound, no sibilence, no iritation at all, but it is not overly euphoric/sweet (like the Jade tends to do). It will "cut" when it should be "cutting".
-- much wider stage than 007; imaging is precise.
-- better emotion than the 007.
-- Good bass, both quality and quantity; good bass texture, the impact is not as heavy as the 007. No bass distortion with bass-heavy music.
*** wear comfort: it is much easier to get a perfct fit with the sgl jr's click-adjustable headband, than the 007's one-size-fits-all elastic strap; and sgl jr's clamping force does not feel nearly as heavy as the 007 (sgl jr has larger pads, maybe that is part of the reason). The phones weight 376 grams. The sgl-jr wins in the long-wear-comfort department.
Over all, in this lower-end system, the sgl jr wins hands down, it is just much more enjoyable.
The above is my comparison impressions of 007 vs sgl-jr, per my tastes, to my ears, in this particular "not high end" system.
At this point my feel is that the 007 is very very warm sounding and needs a sharp amp with lots of current capability to shine. The 007 "attempts" to do more and when not able to (say, due to lesser amplification) it will "make sure" you know it ==> the relentless chase of that "perfect" amp. I had heard 007's at meets before and they sounded great, and the amps were BHSE's.
Bought a pair of 007mk1 and took the first listen today.
This particular pair is in pretty good shape considering the age, probably 90~95% condition, the only worn spot being the elastic strap of headband is not very elastic anymore. Pads are in good shape and soft. Serial range 71xxx.
Source: modded Fiio x3 classic. The mod is basically changing the line-out signal caps to Mundorf Silver oil.
interconnect: 28 gauge silver/cotton quad braid.
^^^ the two components above are not considered as "warm" sounding. They are slightly bright if anything.
Amp: SRM-1 (not MK2) with FT3 aluminum teflon caps as output.
-- the sound sig of FT3 is smooth and rather neutral, maybe slightly dull comparing to the more audiophile-grade teflon caps such as TFT, but not considered as a "warm" component.
-- overall sound sig of the amp is neutral (Lambda 303 sounds bright with this setup)
-- this amp is not very powerful, the output stage idles at about 2.5mA.
with 007
-- very warm sound. Good tonal details, top end a bit soft; the sound is on the dark side;
-- some slight sibilence when listening to Eva Cassidy songs (Live at Blues Ally album).
-- Stage not very wide, I wouldn't call it closed-in but it is no wide. Good imaging/focus.
-- shows emotions well, but not great.
-- bass texture ok, kind of loose; some distortion when playing bass-heavy songs (007 trying to do heavy impact but the amp not able to keep up --> distortion?). The distortion situation did not improve by lowering the volume, so it might be a "not enough current supply" instead of "not enough voltage swing" thing.
*** wear comfort: pads are very soft and comfy but the clamping pressure is quite heavy, started to feel it after about 30 minutes.
phones (not including cable) weight 390 grams.
with Shangri La Jr
-- the sgl-jr sounded noticeably more open, more spacious, finer/more-detailed (at least details more "visible"), much better "there" feel when listening to live concert recordings.
-- slightly warm, but not nearly as warm as 007
-- smooth sound, no sibilence, no iritation at all, but it is not overly euphoric/sweet (like the Jade tends to do). It will "cut" when it should be "cutting".
-- much wider stage than 007; imaging is precise.
-- better emotion than the 007.
-- Good bass, both quality and quantity; good bass texture, the impact is not as heavy as the 007. No bass distortion with bass-heavy music.
*** wear comfort: it is much easier to get a perfct fit with the sgl jr's click-adjustable headband, than the 007's one-size-fits-all elastic strap; and sgl jr's clamping force does not feel nearly as heavy as the 007 (sgl jr has larger pads, maybe that is part of the reason). The phones weight 376 grams. The sgl-jr wins in the long-wear-comfort department.
Over all, in this lower-end system, the sgl jr wins hands down, it is just much more enjoyable.
The above is my comparison impressions of 007 vs sgl-jr, per my tastes, to my ears, in this particular "not high end" system.
At this point my feel is that the 007 is very very warm sounding and needs a sharp amp with lots of current capability to shine. The 007 "attempts" to do more and when not able to (say, due to lesser amplification) it will "make sure" you know it ==> the relentless chase of that "perfect" amp. I had heard 007's at meets before and they sounded great, and the amps were BHSE's.
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wires in the sgl-jr cable looks to be stranded copper in clear insulation. Though I am not sure if it is indeed stranded or just the extrusion marks in the insulation making it look stranded. Wire diameter 0.9mm, including the insulation. Wires look to be braided in some kind of flat geometry, lay loosely in the tech-flex sheathing. Any pulling stress is contained by the techflex, not transferred to the wires.
The plug end on my pair looks fine, not sure why Spritzer's pair (in his tear down thread) has an extra disc in the middle of the pins. I bought my pair used so don't know if the disc was ever there.
I did some more listening, using HeAudio Jade, 007 and sgl-jr .
gear chain is the same as above, except the output caps of SRM-1 changed from 0.22uf FT3 to "0.47uf miflex oil // 0.1uf FT3". The bass distortion problem previously detected with 007 no longer shows up.
Music was Fleedwood Mac 25 years box set ( 4 disc's in the set. I only had time to do disc 1, 2, and most of 3). The session stated with sgl-jr, then 007, then Jade, and ended with sgl-jr.
sgl-jr: the widest stage of 3. Maybe 50% wider than 007. The most detailed of the 3, a little sharp at times but not offensive enough for me to want to change anything. Didn't have the feeling of "wanting something more" or "something is not right", it was simply "good enough". Once the volume was set, I did not feel any urge to touch the volume knob. Just kept on listening.
007: nice warm sound, but even with all that warmness there was something in the upper mids (female vocal range) that bothers me. A little grating if you will. I turned the volume down and up and down again a few times trying to find a comfortable spot. I put the 007's aside after 30~40 minutes.
Jade: the Brightest of 3. Sound stage slightly wider than 007. Bass light, I felt the "want" for more bass all the time. Not as resolving as the 007; sound is smooth and I did not wish anything to go away, just the wish for something more (more bass, mostly). So I turned the volume up, to get more bass and more obvious details, but after a while the brightness got to me so I turned it down, then up again, then down again..... I suppose I could get use to the sound if I could control the urge of wanting more bass.
The 007 lasted 1/2 CD, and Jade lasted maybe 3/4 CD. The sgl-jr did the rest, and I could keep on listening to it, but by then it was already 1:30am.
The plug end on my pair looks fine, not sure why Spritzer's pair (in his tear down thread) has an extra disc in the middle of the pins. I bought my pair used so don't know if the disc was ever there.
I did some more listening, using HeAudio Jade, 007 and sgl-jr .
gear chain is the same as above, except the output caps of SRM-1 changed from 0.22uf FT3 to "0.47uf miflex oil // 0.1uf FT3". The bass distortion problem previously detected with 007 no longer shows up.
Music was Fleedwood Mac 25 years box set ( 4 disc's in the set. I only had time to do disc 1, 2, and most of 3). The session stated with sgl-jr, then 007, then Jade, and ended with sgl-jr.
sgl-jr: the widest stage of 3. Maybe 50% wider than 007. The most detailed of the 3, a little sharp at times but not offensive enough for me to want to change anything. Didn't have the feeling of "wanting something more" or "something is not right", it was simply "good enough". Once the volume was set, I did not feel any urge to touch the volume knob. Just kept on listening.
007: nice warm sound, but even with all that warmness there was something in the upper mids (female vocal range) that bothers me. A little grating if you will. I turned the volume down and up and down again a few times trying to find a comfortable spot. I put the 007's aside after 30~40 minutes.
Jade: the Brightest of 3. Sound stage slightly wider than 007. Bass light, I felt the "want" for more bass all the time. Not as resolving as the 007; sound is smooth and I did not wish anything to go away, just the wish for something more (more bass, mostly). So I turned the volume up, to get more bass and more obvious details, but after a while the brightness got to me so I turned it down, then up again, then down again..... I suppose I could get use to the sound if I could control the urge of wanting more bass.
The 007 lasted 1/2 CD, and Jade lasted maybe 3/4 CD. The sgl-jr did the rest, and I could keep on listening to it, but by then it was already 1:30am.
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quick comparison, Shangri La jr vs 007, on a KGSS
received a KGSS today, and did some quick comparison of sgl-jr vs 007 on it.
some details about this particular KGSS (since the KGSS builds can vary a bit)
-- early HeadAmp KGSS, in the big flat 16"x16" chassis
-- volume controls are 24-step DACT
-- two-board design: power supply board + amp board. Both channels are on the same amp board.
-- internal wiring looks to be the usual copper/pvc wire ( not upgraded to silver/teflon)
Before the comparison listening, the KGSS had been idling for a few hours, with the top open, the middle heatsinks on the amp board were about 60C, should be "warmed up" enough.
Shangri La jr
-- running off the KGSS, the sound is a bit more open than my SRM-1 (non-mk2). Now the sound is very open.
-- very "live" with great details, though a little bright to my taste.
-- bass-light. Good quality but not enough slam to my taste.
007
-- adequate bass (slightly more than "barely enough") with good bass control.
-- sound stage is neither super-open nor narrow, i.e. good sound stage.
-- lush vocal
both sgl jr and 007 improved when driven by the KGSS, but the 007 scales more, I guess the sound signatures of 007 and kgss complements each other well. Though even with the lighter bass I definitely prefer the "sgl jr + KGSS" combo when listening to live concert recordings.
But is either combo good enough to just stop my journey right there.... unfortunately, no. The "sgl jr + KGSS" comes closer, but still no cigar. The main problem is, even with the clean sound and great details, I don't feel very emotionally involved (same situation with either sgl jr or 007). The music tends to want to fade into "greatly detailed super high quality wonderful back-ground music", it could not hold my attention. In this aspect the KGSS is somehow not better than the modded SRM-1.
received a KGSS today, and did some quick comparison of sgl-jr vs 007 on it.
some details about this particular KGSS (since the KGSS builds can vary a bit)
-- early HeadAmp KGSS, in the big flat 16"x16" chassis
-- volume controls are 24-step DACT
-- two-board design: power supply board + amp board. Both channels are on the same amp board.
-- internal wiring looks to be the usual copper/pvc wire ( not upgraded to silver/teflon)
Before the comparison listening, the KGSS had been idling for a few hours, with the top open, the middle heatsinks on the amp board were about 60C, should be "warmed up" enough.
Shangri La jr
-- running off the KGSS, the sound is a bit more open than my SRM-1 (non-mk2). Now the sound is very open.
-- very "live" with great details, though a little bright to my taste.
-- bass-light. Good quality but not enough slam to my taste.
007
-- adequate bass (slightly more than "barely enough") with good bass control.
-- sound stage is neither super-open nor narrow, i.e. good sound stage.
-- lush vocal
both sgl jr and 007 improved when driven by the KGSS, but the 007 scales more, I guess the sound signatures of 007 and kgss complements each other well. Though even with the lighter bass I definitely prefer the "sgl jr + KGSS" combo when listening to live concert recordings.
But is either combo good enough to just stop my journey right there.... unfortunately, no. The "sgl jr + KGSS" comes closer, but still no cigar. The main problem is, even with the clean sound and great details, I don't feel very emotionally involved (same situation with either sgl jr or 007). The music tends to want to fade into "greatly detailed super high quality wonderful back-ground music", it could not hold my attention. In this aspect the KGSS is somehow not better than the modded SRM-1.
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chinsettawong
Headphoneus Supremus
You might want to try them with KGSSHV Carbon or DIY T2. The amps make a lot of difference.
protoss
Headphoneus Supremus
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The Shangri la JR is a such a F*ing underrated GEM!
Liked it more than Susvara!
Liked it more than Susvara!
Is the Carbon a better pair for the S-La Jr. than the S-La amp itself?
ubs28
Headphoneus Supremus
- Joined
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The Shangri la JR is a such a F*ing underrated GEM!
Liked it more than Susvara!
Ofcourse it is. It is $8000 because it sounds so good, not $6000 good.
I think it costs 4000$ and not 8000$.
maybe, but T2 is super complex and I am not sure if the Carbon is less bright than the old style KGSS.
The brightness is not really a problem, I can get use to it. It is the lack of emotion that bothers me.
I will try a "727 mod" on my KGSS and see if it makes any difference. (a "727 feedback mod" is the reverse of the "717 mod" that people usually do)
or maybe a tube amp of some kind can make the sgl jr really shine. I think there was a model of stax 007t that uses the 6s4a?
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JimL11
1000+ Head-Fier
As far as I know there is not an authorized "727" mod for the KGSS, nor is there a Stax SRM-007t that uses the 6S4A. Spritzer did mod an SRM-007T to use the 6S4A tube, however, but of course that voids any warranty. It requires cutting all the circuit board traces to the tubes except for the filaments, and rewiring them, since the 6S4A is a single triode tube and the original 6CG7/6FQ7 tubes are dual triode, so they are not compatible.
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