[SolarCetacean]

Is it pretty easy to swap the stock pads with the dekoni ones? May have to give it a try.

I followed the instructions that Dekoni gave for swapping the Susvara pads. Same procedure. The clips on the earpads point to the outer edge of the earpads, so you have to pull inwards on the pad to remove them. I find the inner plastic ring under the earpad, grip that, and gently tug inward until the hook comes out. I hadn't heard of the credit card trick when I swapped pads, but I'd expect sliding the credit card under the earpad will unhook the earpad clips by pressing them inwards.

This is very interesting! In spite of the similar form factor, it hadn't occurred to me that pads would be swappable between Susvara and Shang Junior. I have the Dekoni fenestrated sheepskin on my Susvara and will move them over to the Shang Jr. in place of the stock pads this evening to see what happens.

I've actually swapped back to the stock pads after a brief experimentation with the Dekoni sheepskin ones. The sheepskin pads weren't actually an improvement in comfort, as they increased the clamp force and somehow increased head pressure (maybe greater depth of the earpads). This is something I've experienced with basically all leather/pleather pads, and they also feel nasty when it gets warm. Sound-wise, while I liked the improvement in bass impact, I didn't like the huge midrange boost they produced, and I think they might have taken away the airiness of the treble that I so enjoyed, though they did also fix the odd treble transition. More importantly, my goal with pad swapping was to reduce/replace EQ for the midrange and treble, and while I did require fewer EQ bands to fix the sound, it made the SGL's stock sound worse to my ears. The default sound is very good, but with a few issues here and there. The sheepskin pads replaced that bunch of small issues with one big issue. One step forward, one step back, and it didn't bring me closer to my goal.

That's the issue with earpad swaps; they are blunt instruments that affect many different parts of the sound. I wanted a whittling knife, but got a chainsaw instead. And the driver difference I mentioned before means I can't really predict what will happen when I change the pads. Based on Dekoni's measurements on the Susvara, the sheepskin pads were exactly what I wanted, but the same pad does different things when used with an estat driver. I already have the fenestrated sheepskin and hybrid pads on order, so there will be more experiments in a few days. Maybe one of those will provide me with the perfect sound I want.

 

[BassicScience]

I followed the instructions that Dekoni gave for swapping the Susvara pads. Same procedure. The clips on the earpads point to the outer edge of the earpads, so you have to pull inwards on the pad to remove them. I find the inner plastic ring under the earpad, grip that, and gently tug inward until the hook comes out. I hadn't heard of the credit card trick when I swapped pads, but I'd expect sliding the credit card under the earpad will unhook the earpad clips by pressing them inwards.


I've actually swapped back to the stock pads after a brief experimentation with the Dekoni sheepskin ones. The sheepskin pads weren't actually an improvement in comfort, as they increased the clamp force and somehow increased head pressure (maybe greater depth of the earpads). This is something I've experienced with basically all leather/pleather pads, and they also feel nasty when it gets warm. Sound-wise, while I liked the improvement in bass impact, I didn't like the huge midrange boost they produced, and I think they might have taken away the airiness of the treble that I so enjoyed, though they did also fix the odd treble transition. More importantly, my goal with pad swapping was to reduce/replace EQ for the midrange and treble, and while I did require fewer EQ bands to fix the sound, it made the SGL's stock sound worse to my ears. The default sound is very good, but with a few issues here and there. The sheepskin pads replaced that bunch of small issues with one big issue. One step forward, one step back, and it didn't bring me closer to my goal.

That's the issue with earpad swaps; they are blunt instruments that affect many different parts of the sound. I wanted a whittling knife, but got a chainsaw instead. And the driver difference I mentioned before means I can't really predict what will happen when I change the pads. Based on Dekoni's measurements on the Susvara, the sheepskin pads were exactly what I wanted, but the same pad does different things when used with an estat driver. I already have the fenestrated sheepskin and hybrid pads on order, so there will be more experiments in a few days. Maybe one of those will provide me with the perfect sound I want.

Firstly, let me note that changing pads on the Shang Jr. is a bit more of a hassle than it is on the Susvara, as the Shang Jr. has notches which need to be aligned with the tabs. Also, the Shang Jr. is a bit less robust than the Susvara in terms of build, so has to be handled with more care when exerting pressure with a credit card.

In any case, I did swap the Dekoni FSS pads onto the Shang Junior and listened to a range of familiar tracks. I must agree with your general conclusion that the net result was clearly worse overall than with the stock pads. The frequency response was much less even and the coherence of the music (and the soundstage) was diminished. The bass was a tad punchier, but not dramatically so in my estimation. Other than the roll off in the bass, I'm very happy with the tuning of the Shang Jr. with the stock pads, and probably won't be experimenting further, but I look forward to reading more of your impressions. When I want more bass, I'll just switch over to my Susvara.

 

[SolarCetacean]

Dekoni Hybrid pads arrived today. They are much better than the Sheepskin pads. I also received the fenestrated sheepskin pads, but given @BassicScience didn't like them very much, and that I didn't like the regular sheepskin pads, I don't have high hopes for them. I might measure them later, but I have no interest in actually using them.

The Hybrid pads are similar in construction to Hifiman's default earpads on the SGL Jr. Perforated leather on the earpad interior, velour-ish material touching the skin, and solid leather on the outer face of the earpad. The fine mesh cloth over in the inside of the earpad that acts as an earpad cover is slightly denser than on the Hifiman pad, which might cause some of the treble changes. The Hybrid pad is a major upgrade in comfort from the Sheepskin pad. Much less change in clamp force, and either the different thickness of the earpad or the denser inner mesh means that my ear tips don't get as much discomfort from pressing against the driver. I'd rate this pad on par with, or perhaps slightly better than, the stock pad in terms of comfort.

In terms of sound, the Hybrid pad actually offers similar improvements to bass extension as the sheepskin pad. Bass is linear down to about 40 Hz, which is just a bit worse than the sheepskin pads. Midrange tonality is much improved from the sheepskin pads. Rather than a sharp peak at 1.4K, the Hybrid pads produce a slight bump out to about 1.5K, then relaxes the 2-5K range. In a way, it's the opposite of the stock pads, which recesses the 1-2.5K range, and dramatically boost the 3-5K region. In the treble, the sharp rise from 9-10K is smoothed out which fixes some tonal issues, but also makes certain parts that token those frequencies a bit less clear. There's a slight reduction in the very highest registers, producing a small reduction in airiness that can sometimes be noticeable on songs that lean on those frequencies, but generally isn't a big deal. That reduction can sometimes be a good thing too. The Hybrid pads are quite listenable without any EQ. It affects the treble much less than the sheepskin pads and doesn't really affect soundstage or imaging in my experience. The midrange boost emphasizes vocals (which can sound excessively breathy with the stock pads), but the lower treble recession can sometimes impart an odd tonality in some songs.

Overall, I'm still a bit divided on the pad swap. This one is basically the "evil twin" of the stock pads; the midrange is basically flipped from stock, and my EQ for that area is also flipped - now I'm boosting the 3-5K range to bring back some of the SGL Jr's original character. The bass now needs less EQ, as when using stock pads, I needed a +2 dB shelf just to compensate for the down-shelf below 70 Hz. I suppose I could switch between stock and Hybrid pads depending on what mood I'm in: Hybrids for a mid-focused and warmer sound and the stock pads for an airier sound.

One key difference between the pads is the type of filling they use. Dekoni pads use memory foam while the stock pads are not memory foam. When Audeze discussed their 2021 revisions of the LCD-X/XC, they said that they switched from memory foam back to regular foam, and as a result, the LCD-X and XC both saw significant boosts to the upper mids and lower treble. I wonder if the 3-5K reduction I'm seeing with the Dekoni pads is due to their use of memory foam (and this reduction is also seen in their measurements for the Susvara, so it's more likely not just a driver interaction). I am now studying differences between the two earpads to see if I can replicate the bass extension of the Dekoni pads via modifications to the stock pads. I noticed that one of the inner ports on the earpad ring is more closed on the Dekoni pads vs on the stock pads. I could try plugging that port with putty or something to see if that helps the bass without messing up the mids.

Finally, here is a comparison of measurements I took on my miniDSP EARS rig of the 3 different earpads. As usual with the EARS, this isn't a definitive measurement of the SGL Jr, just a comparison of the different earpads. I also listened to each set of earpads with music first to try to avoid measurement bias.

 

[BassicScience]

@SolarCetacean , thanks for the detailed report on the pad swapping. As I mentioned, I'm quite happy with the SGL Jr's overall tuning (aside from bass) using stock pads, so won't be experimenting further on my own, but I wish you luck in your quest for the perfect pad. I may audition whatever you finally arrive at if you think it's a meaningful improvement over stock without EQ (other than a bass shelf).

I did want to point out that Hifiman and Dekoni pads are quite susceptible to coming apart (due to glue failure) over time, and that frequently changing them might hasten their failure. Just something to keep in mind. At one point I put some electrical tape on the stock Susvara pads (see photo) to reinforce the glue, but the interior glue seam ended up coming apart, so I had to scrap them anyway. FWIW

 

[Hifi Boy]

@SolarCetacean , thanks for the detailed report on the pad swapping. As I mentioned, I'm quite happy with the SGL Jr's overall tuning (aside from bass) using stock pads, so won't be experimenting further on my own, but I wish you luck in your quest for the perfect pad. I may audition whatever you finally arrive at if you think it's a meaningful improvement over stock without EQ (other than a bass shelf).

I did want to point out that Hifiman and Dekoni pads are quite susceptible to coming apart (due to glue failure) over time, and that frequently changing them might hasten their failure. Just something to keep in mind. At one point I put some electrical tape on the stock Susvara pads (see photo) to reinforce the glue, but the interior glue seam ended up coming apart, so I had to scrap them anyway. FWIW

Woah, I was actually thinking of buying some new Dekoni (Velour) pads for my HE1000. Honestly as long as the SQ is good and they are comfortable, you can easily replace them if the do fall apart at some point.

In any case, thanks for the heads up!

 

[BassicScience]

Woah, I was actually thinking of buying some new Dekoni (Velour) pads for my HE1000. Honestly as long as the SQ is good and they are comfortable, you can easily replace them if the do fall apart at some point.

In any case, thanks for the heads up!

The tape job I posted was actually on the stock Hifiman pads. HFM warranties them for either six months or 90 days (can't remember), and won't replace them thereafter. Dekoni warranties theirs for two years, and has been very responsive when I've needed a replacement. That said, it is a minor hassle to send them back, but at least you have the option with Dekoni. You can also simply return any Dekoni pads if you don't like the sound signature. Great company making excellent products, and I highly recommend them.

The main point I was making was that changing Hifiman-style pads frequently will likely stress the glue joints and expedite failure, so just be aware of that.

 

[SolarCetacean]

My attempts at modding the stock Hifiman pads were much ado about nothing. I tried a bunch of different approaches, but none made a significant difference in the bass. First, I tried sealing off the slits in the mounting ring with putty. That boosted in the midrange a bit, but nothing major. I then decided to seal the 6 screw holes on the inside of the earcup. That actually did something; it boosted the 60-70 Hz region and boosted the 1-1.5K area, but didn't help with bass extension at all. It also did a few funky things with the upper treble. I then tried sealing the entire outside rim of the earcup (similar to the blu-tac mod for Stax lambdas), and that did absolutely nothing. No change in bass at all, which means that either I did the mod incorrectly, or that the air leak is not along the rim of the earcup but somewhere else. Maybe the difference is in the mounting ring, or in the material (pleather vs sheepskin leather). As it turns out, the trained acoustic engineers at Hifiman are better at tuning things than an enthusiast layperson like me

I noticed that as a result of changing earpads, the FR of the SGL Jr showed small variations. I don't think I need a band to smooth out the upper treble transition anymore. Another big help was having the EARS measurements to help fine-tune my bass EQ settings. My old setting, which was done without measurements, did not properly compensate for the bass drop-off below 70 Hz. I found I was able to reproduce most of the bass improvements from the Dekoni pads by using a better EQ setting that produces proper bass extension, enough to not need to use the Dekoni Hybrid pads.

One last note on the Hybrid pads: I found that slight and narrow boosts to the 10K and 16K areas restored some of the air that was lost when switching to those pads.

All in all, this was a "mission failed successfully" scenario. No, earpad swaps weren't able to improve the sound and comfort enough to remove my need for EQ, but the process of exploring them helped me make a better EQ profile that improved my satisfaction with the headphone.

 

[BassicScience]

My attempts at modding the stock Hifiman pads were much ado about nothing. I tried a bunch of different approaches, but none made a significant difference in the bass. First, I tried sealing off the slits in the mounting ring with putty. That boosted in the midrange a bit, but nothing major. I then decided to seal the 6 screw holes on the inside of the earcup. That actually did something; it boosted the 60-70 Hz region and boosted the 1-1.5K area, but didn't help with bass extension at all. It also did a few funky things with the upper treble. I then tried sealing the entire outside rim of the earcup (similar to the blu-tac mod for Stax lambdas), and that did absolutely nothing. No change in bass at all, which means that either I did the mod incorrectly, or that the air leak is not along the rim of the earcup but somewhere else. Maybe the difference is in the mounting ring, or in the material (pleather vs sheepskin leather). As it turns out, the trained acoustic engineers at Hifiman are better at tuning things than an enthusiast layperson like me

I noticed that as a result of changing earpads, the FR of the SGL Jr showed small variations. I don't think I need a band to smooth out the upper treble transition anymore. Another big help was having the EARS measurements to help fine-tune my bass EQ settings. My old setting, which was done without measurements, did not properly compensate for the bass drop-off below 70 Hz. I found I was able to reproduce most of the bass improvements from the Dekoni pads by using a better EQ setting that produces proper bass extension, enough to not need to use the Dekoni Hybrid pads.

One last note on the Hybrid pads: I found that slight and narrow boosts to the 10K and 16K areas restored some of the air that was lost when switching to those pads.

All in all, this was a "mission failed successfully" scenario. No, earpad swaps weren't able to improve the sound and comfort enough to remove my need for EQ, but the process of exploring them helped me make a better EQ profile that improved my satisfaction with the headphone.

Thanks for updating the thread with your full results! Would you mind sharing what EQ settings you arrived at that addressed the roll off below 70 Hz? Thanks in advance.

 

[SolarCetacean]

For just getting rid of the roll-off, I use a shelf of +4 dB at 32 Hz, Q=0.67. That results in a shallow shelf that doesn't touch frequencies above 70 Hz.

 

[hardpike]

Night listening...

 

[hardpike]

Whatever doest kill you, just make you...stranger...

 

[SolarCetacean]

Wise ones of Head-Fi, I ask for advice. I've gotten the amp upgrade itch for the SGL Jr, but I'm not sure which one is best for me. My current amp is a CCS-modded SRM-006tA. I've found 4 amps for consideration: the KGSSHV, the KGST, the Carbon, and the Aeras. I'm not particularly interested in the SGL's own amp (Carbon-level price without Carbon-level performance), and the BHSE is too large for my setup. From earlier in the thread, AudioCats thought that the old KGSS wasn't as good of a fit with the SGL Jr. Maybe, since it was designed for use with a tube amp, that a tube amp like the KGST or Aeras would be better. Also, my DAC is a FiiO K9 Pro which is a brighter DAC, so perhaps a warmer amp is better. But I ran across this thread where Dr. Gilmore said the KGST was designed for a 1V input, and the K9 Pro outputs 5V in XLR DAC out mode. It has a pre-amp mode as well, but it reduces the convenience of flipping it to DAC mode and just using the estat amp's volume control. Yet I read that the KGST has a pleasant midrange sound, and that could help the relatively thin midrange on the SGL Jr, so it could be a good synergy.

The Carbon seems to have the best bass and combined with the accentuated treble on the Jr could make it into a V-shaped estat, if such a thing could exist. I listen to a lot of electronic music, so the bass would be welcome. It's a lot more money than a KGST though. The Aeras is even more expensive, but it's a tube amp, it's quite small (good for my space-limited setup), and it can easily switch between voltage standards (I'll definitely be moving in around a year, possibly from the US to Europe, and easy switching will be convenient). It's an endgame amp, but the cost is making me hesitate. I'm leaning towards the KGST, but I'm curious if others recommend differently.

Another, possibly more prudent, option is to simply wait a year and get the amp once I move. But that would be a year spent potentially missing out on a sonic upgrade.

 

[BassicScience]

Wise ones of Head-Fi, I ask for advice. I've gotten the amp upgrade itch for the SGL Jr, but I'm not sure which one is best for me. My current amp is a CCS-modded SRM-006tA. I've found 4 amps for consideration: the KGSSHV, the KGST, the Carbon, and the Aeras. I'm not particularly interested in the SGL's own amp (Carbon-level price without Carbon-level performance), and the BHSE is too large for my setup. From earlier in the thread, AudioCats thought that the old KGSS wasn't as good of a fit with the SGL Jr. Maybe, since it was designed for use with a tube amp, that a tube amp like the KGST or Aeras would be better. Also, my DAC is a FiiO K9 Pro which is a brighter DAC, so perhaps a warmer amp is better. But I ran across this thread where Dr. Gilmore said the KGST was designed for a 1V input, and the K9 Pro outputs 5V in XLR DAC out mode. It has a pre-amp mode as well, but it reduces the convenience of flipping it to DAC mode and just using the estat amp's volume control. Yet I read that the KGST has a pleasant midrange sound, and that could help the relatively thin midrange on the SGL Jr, so it could be a good synergy.

The Carbon seems to have the best bass and combined with the accentuated treble on the Jr could make it into a V-shaped estat, if such a thing could exist. I listen to a lot of electronic music, so the bass would be welcome. It's a lot more money than a KGST though. The Aeras is even more expensive, but it's a tube amp, it's quite small (good for my space-limited setup), and it can easily switch between voltage standards (I'll definitely be moving in around a year, possibly from the US to Europe, and easy switching will be convenient). It's an endgame amp, but the cost is making me hesitate. I'm leaning towards the KGST, but I'm curious if others recommend differently.

Another, possibly more prudent, option is to simply wait a year and get the amp once I move. But that would be a year spent potentially missing out on a sonic upgrade.

I may be auditioning the Aeras with the Shang Jr. in the near future. I've heard it driven by the BHSE and (extensively) with my own Hypex/iESL combo, and roll-off in the bass is my only real complaint with the headphone (in either setup). I don't expect the Aeras to completely solve that issue, but it may help to some degree. According to @number1sixerfan , the Aeras does feature a fuller bass than the BHSE in general, FWIW.

 

[searchingtom]

I just received the Shangri-La Jr. amp today which replaces the solid state SRM-700S. I have it paired with the Stax SR-007 MK2 which is fairly new to me. Without break in on the amp it sounds really good. Increased euphony over the solid state amp. I have the L-300 Limited Edition coming also which I will compare to. Saving up for the X9000 down the road (or whatever surpasses that). I just love electrostatics. Probably partially because I have some hearing loss the additional detail is noticeable to me.

I sold my Feliks Euforia Anniversary Edition paired with Meze Empyrean to fund this change. When I owned the SR-007 paired to the 700S I always found myself reaching for the Stax. And now with the more euphonic sound of the Shangri-La Jr. I think I will pause on purchases for a while and just enjoy,

For background I mostly listen to string quartet music and mellow jazz.

 

[hardpike]

Congratulations!

200 hours and it will sound heavenly!

Those valves need a bit of time