[MrGreen]

The test seems pretty fair to me.
 
More fair than listening to a pair of headphones out of the gear, actually, since we are hearing closer to what the player puts out at peak performance

 

[dfkt]

Jazz: Tell me what's the original track, and then tell me how this test is flawed.

 

[JaZZ]

The test seems pretty fair to me. More fair than listening to a pair of headphones out of the gear, actually, since we are hearing closer to what the player puts out at peak performance.

I don't understand your argumentation. Moreover for most portable headphone outputs 16 ohm is not the ideal precondition for «peak performance».
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[JaZZ]

Jazz: Tell me what's the original track, and then tell me how this test is flawed.

Already done both. And what are your counter-arguments to mine? Do you think your test is flawless?
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[Achmedisdead]

Quote:

Good example. It's not like I don't appreciate the test itself as trying to proove your point but it lacks the power to do so. In fact can you post what headphones you used yourself when listening to the different PMPs? Reason why I ask is mainly because people (including me) got the Hifiman because they want something to drive their fullsized cans without the need of caring a seperate amp around. And I believe that's actually a valid point speaking against your comment of how "large that brick" is.

Yet quite a few people are using separate amps with their HiFiMAN players.....we've even seen the pictures here on the site.
 

 

[yuriv]

Nice test, dfkt. I have done something similar for CD players and standalone DACs, but I haven't posted anything over at AVS in a while. Some folks are objecting that you're using 16-ohm resistors for test loads, instead of actual headphones. I don't see a problem with that, but I suppose you could post some recordings of these players while driving whatever headphones you have at hand--their choice, of course. I don't think it will make much of a difference, judging from a similar test that I ran a long time ago.

 

[Edwood]

You guys are treading a fine line here. 
 
There is a reason why the Cables forum prohibits discussion of Double Blind testing.   With how this thread has progressed, it will end up in that direction as well.
 
-Ed

 

[dfkt]

Yuriv, the 16 Ohm load is a V-Moda Vibe IEM. Same load I used for all my 16 Ohm tests on my RMAA site. (That's one IEM that's exactly 16 Ohm, and it's one I'm not scared it will get damaged in frequency sweep tests.)

 

[MrGreen]

Quote:

I don't understand your argumentation. Moreover for most portable headphone outputs 16 ohm is not the ideal precondition for «peak performance».
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Is the test being done at 16 ohm? I was under the impression it was being done at ~0 (though I must admit I've been skimming the thread).
 
Anyway, by introducing headphones you're introducing other variables such as amping, the kind of power available and what the headphone needs (say if I was to plug a K1000 into a speaker amp fed by the STX line out, and then into the headphone out of the STX, or if you are dealing with a headphone that requires a lot of current, but not so much voltage). Assuming the recordings are good (to be honest they sound pretty close and a lot of members are having trouble differentiating them), you have essentially elimated these extra variables. (fair being in the scientific sense - i.e. you're comparing a limited number of variables)
 
I'd have no problem believing that, if one of these players had a significantly more capable amp, that the K701 would sound best from it, even if it had the poorest DAC, but something like an ER4P would sound comparable on all of them.
 
 
That is, if my understanding of how this test is being performed is accurate. Feel free to correct me on that front

 

[dfkt]

The test is accurate, Jazz is just trying to distract people from the facts. It's not about what he calls "peak performance", it's just the standard at which these tests are usually done, which is 16 Ohm. The difference to, say, 32 Ohm loads is negligible.
 
Anyways, it's still about the difference between any of the three players with a 16 Ohm load against the original file. That's all.

 

[CSIR]

There is only one way to settle this: volume match the three players people talk about clip+, s:flo2, and Hifiman 801 and let people listen to 4 clips of various genre's of songs.  Set up one station where people can plug in various headphones into a A/B/C selector (without seeing the players) and for each headphone type keep a log of which player people prefer (due to volume matching you would have to only do IEMS at one time and full sized at another).  In my view due to price, size, and battery life difference the Hifiman should be chosen 99% of the time and the second favorite should be the s:flo2 also by a large amount over the clip.  I know the hifiman can do higher bit rate files but even at the lower ones it should still be a clear winner.  Until then this other test that is being done is like picking which camera you like best by looking at a 3 pictures of a picture on your computer from three different camera's.  And I understand how the original picture should look the best but I still don't like the test although I appreciate what it is trying to do. 
 

 

[dfkt]

You can clearly pick which camera you like best from three shots with exactly the same parameters, when looking at them on your computer screen. Given you have a quality screen.

 

[striker]

Exactly. No matter what coloration the sound card or the headphones are adding, they're adding it equally to every file.
 
It's not an absolute evaluation of sound quality, it's a relative (and subjective) evaluation of sound quality.

 

[Rockford]

No matter what hardware you introduce into dfkt's test the premise remains valid as you are still using a controlled variable(the files).
 
People are looking too much into the reason for this test, it is so bloody simple.

 
Quote:

You guys are treading a fine line here. 
 
There is a reason why the Cables forum prohibits discussion of Double Blind testing.   With how this thread has progressed, it will end up in that direction as well.
 
-Ed

There is nothing wrong with AB testing, if this thread is closed it will be due to a contributors device being critiqued which might lower sales as this is a place of business when we really get down to it.

 

[Bojamijams]

I see you chose a loudmouth avatar to better represent you. Where's my $100?
 
Quote:

Irony at it's finest.