HiFiMAN HM-801 Portable Player / DAC Review: Part One of Two

[GreenLeo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fkclo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very nice product concept. But until it goes well with Apple Lossless I'll be stuck. Also I would want to see how serious will there be alternative "amp modules" in the not too distant future. F. Lo

Just for curiosity, is Apple Lossless that important? Can it be replaced by Flac?

 

[KONAKONA]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenLeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just for curiosity, is Apple Lossless that important? Can it be replaced by Flac?

All lossless codecs are essentially the same, as they all end up as wave uncompressed. Some have different compression and end up a different size, but that's not the matter here.

The thing is that most people that use ipod/mods right now have most/all of their music in ALAC (apple lossless) instead of flac so it will play on their current PDAP. If the 801 came out without ALAC support, then if they wanted to use it they would have to transcode their entire library into FLAC. With some of the people around here having 1TB+ of music, that's a lot of transcoding.

Also, drop the cd topic already will you? Its way off topic and has already been resolved. (See: Me being stupid and throwing out a bad estimate, also ripping cds wrong a long time ago)

 

[GreenLeo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KONAKONA /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... Also, drop the cd topic already will you? Its way off topic and has already been resolved. (See: Me being stupid and throwing out a bad estimate, also ripping cds wrong a long time ago)

1st of all, I did not call you stupid or think it that way. I'm very interested in this product and my very concern is the SQ. So far Jude hasn't answered my question about the example of the "Phenomenal DAC" that he referred to and I'm stilling waiting for it.

2ndly, I found there were lots of concerns other than the SQ. The 'small' 32G memory size of the SDHC concern is one I find that occurs relatively frequently. Hence I just want to share the thing that I know a bit -- 32 G can take quite a number of CDs. Certainly there are lots of headfiers here who has much more CDs. But if the CDs can be stored into different SDs for different genres, may be the problem of the 32G size can be minimized.

3rdly, the calculation would be useful for people who want really Hi Res music. There are 24/192 files now and then the number of 70 mins CDs that can be stored would be just a factor of roughly 1/6 of the number calculated. This will then be a real concern because for people who only use WAV format (I'm one), 32G can store only up to 8 hi res 70mins CDs then.

In my point of view, we, headfiers, are here to share our knowledge to help other headfiers to make the most informed choice. I totally agree that the memory size is not related to the SQ. But as stated before, there are other concerns for other headfiers.

Finally, I was asking fkclo why he thought support of the ALAC is that important rather than the memory size question. I use IMod as well so I am facing the same problem but clearly fkclo and I have different priorities on this issue. I know that both of the FLAC and ALAC are lossless compressions of WAV files hence the SQ should not affected (well not much affected). That's why I, out of curiosity, asked why he thought support of ALAC is that important. Anyway, you probably have answered the question.

This is a thread of a product that has'nt been finalized yet. If fkclo's answer sheds some lights that can influence Nankai to produce better products now or in the later versions, or if someone can come up a computer program that can convert ALACs to FLACs in a batch mode, may be that problem of supporting ALAC can be solved. Either way, we're servicing the headfiers.

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fkclo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very nice product concept. But until it goes well with Apple Lossless I'll be stuck.

Same!
Having all my music in Apple Lossless, for playback in iTunes and on DAP's its not option to buy a player that don't play my files.

There are open-source Apple Lossless decoders, so we can always hope for support in the future.

 

[fkclo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenLeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just for curiosity, is Apple Lossless that important? Can it be replaced by Flac?

I have close to 1,000 CDs (still growing at around 20 CD per month) and up till now, 70% of my 250GB of music in my Mac is in Apple Lossless format. Just find it hard to spent the time and effort to redo in other format (and loss my playlist, and additional information (recording specifics, format, venue, dates, mixing and mastering technologies.... etc) I add under iTunes for most albums)...

If the HiFiMan supports Apple Lossless I will definitely put in some serious thought to get one.

F. Lo

 

[iriverdude]

Perhaps since this is a commercial product they pay Rockbox team to port it for the unit? That way has decent firmware, plus Rockbox team get some funding. Rockbox plays ALAC.

 

[nc8000]

As has been mentioned earlier in this thread there is no "RockBox team".

 

[GreenLeo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fkclo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have close to 1,000 CDs (still growing at around 20 CD per month) and up till now, 70% of my 250GB of music in my Mac is in Apple Lossless format. Just find it hard to spent the time and effort to redo in other format (and loss my playlist, and additional information (recording specifics, format, venue, dates, mixing and mastering technologies.... etc) I add under iTunes for most albums)... If the HiFiMan supports Apple Lossless I will definitely put in some serious thought to get one. F. Lo

I see. I've forgotten about the playlists. And the playlists option of the HiFiMan is not sophisticated as indicated in another thread. Now I fully understand why the support of ALAC is that important.

It seems we need a program to automate the ALAC -> FLAC and the corresponding playlist as well. Can Nankai consider that?

 

[antonyfirst]

dB Poweramp Music Converter should do what you are asking. By the way, when is Review pt.2 coming? I'd like to read more than just a press release.

 

[Jalo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenLeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I see. I've forgotten about the playlists. And the playlists option of the HiFiMan is not sophisticated as indicated in another thread. Now I fully understand why the support of ALAC is that important. It seems we need a program to automate the ALAC -> FLAC and the corresponding playlist as well. Can Nankai consider that?

I know the Hifiman is intended to be a niche product for serious audiofile. But from a strict business angle, if I am Nankai, I will definitely make Hifiman competable with apple lossless for the shear number of Alac database out there. Think about this, Apple Ipod has achieve a total sale of 90 million units since it went on sale in October of 2001. Even if this feature can influence and attract 0.01% of the apple ipod users to Hifiman, you are talking about 9000 units. I predict that this platform or feature alone (competability w/ Alac) will bring enough sale to Hifiman to make it worthwhile. Nobody should argue with money if one wants to be successful with a product. I want to see this product becomes successful, I want to see a second version of this product with smaller size, longer battery, better Dac and Amp, and larger memory capacity, and the only way to achieve that is to ensure adequate sale. Then we will have a chance to see a second or third version of it.
Beside, this feature (file format) should not affect SQ so it is competible with Nankai's purist philosophy.

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nc8000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif As has been mentioned earlier in this thread there is no "RockBox team".

There's sort of a rockbox team. Anybody who contributes to rockbox is part of the team.

The point that has to be made is that rockbox is ported to any given device for what are essentially selfish reasons. By unselfish people.

We have rockbox on ipods because some coder who owned an ipod wanted it to be so and did it. Just like all other rockbox platforms.

Some of them may be doing it just for the fun and challenge, but they still did it purely because they felt like it.

There's no rockbox for the 6th generation ipods because nobody feels like putting forth the effort yet. Same goes for the zune.

There's a guy working on rockbox for the iaudio 7, which is pretty neat. I have (among my many DAPs) a cheap insignia DAP with almost the exact same hardware in it, and the only chips that are different are already used in other DAPs supported by rockbox. Is it likely to be supported by rockbox? No. Not unless i figure out how to do it myself - and i stink at programming. Or by some bizarre stroke of luck, maybe the guy doing the iaudio 7 port finds the challenge amusing and just does it for giggles. But I'm not exactly holding my breath.

Rockbox users enjoy the generosity of clever people.

It's conceivable but unlikely that you could pay one of these clever people to port rockbox to this hardware. It will probably never be supported unless someone with programming and embedded hacking skills takes an interest and does it for fun.

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jalo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I know the Hifiman is intended to be a niche product for serious audiofile. But from a strict business angle, if I am Nankai, I will definitely make Hifiman competable with apple lossless for the shear number of Alac database out there. Think about this, Apple Ipod has achieve a total sale of 90 million units since it went on sale in October of 2001. Even if this feature can influence and attract 0.01% of the apple ipod users to Hifiman, you are talking about 9000 units. I predict that this platform or feature alone (competability w/ Alac) will bring enough sale to Hifiman to make it worthwhile. Nobody should argue with money if one wants to be successful with a product. I want to see this product becomes successful, I want to see a second version of this product with smaller size, longer battery, better Dac and Amp, and larger memory capacity, and the only way to achieve that is to ensure adequate sale. Then we will have a chance to see a second or third version of it. Beside, this feature (file format) should not affect SQ so it is competible with Nankai's purist philosophy.

Most likely Apple's ALAC codec is not open source and would require royalty fees to be paid for it's use in an audio player.

I, for one, could care less about ALAC as I don't use a Mac or iTunes.

-Ed

 

[Infoseeker]

I just want something that can connect wit ha modern 500gb notebook harddrive and a untouched line-out.
Built-in amp is unneeded; or follows its own path.

Does anything follow such hopes beyond getting an ultra-portable notebook with a portable DAC and/or amp.

Or should I just carry this around in my pocket?

Hmmm....

Oh lost potential..

 

[tubafish]

MediaCoder should be able to batch convert Apple Lossless files (.mp4) directly to FLAC. Plus it has the added, super-cool bonus of being free.

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infoseeker /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just want something that can connect wit ha modern 500gb notebook harddrive and a untouched line-out. Built-in amp is unneeded; or follows its own path. Does anything follow such hopes beyond getting an ultra-portable notebook with a portable DAC and/or amp. Or should I just carry this around in my pocket? Hmmm.... Oh lost potential..

I have a Viliv S5 on it's way to me. Full Windows XP PC. But it would end up costing nearly twice as much as the HiFiMan alone if I factor in a high end portable DAC like the HeadAmp Pico. Paired with a D10, and it's getting ridiculously huge.

-Ed