HiFiMan HE4XX
Nov 4, 2021 at 3:59 AM Post #1,321 of 1,381
Check out DCA's AEon - probably Open X or RT Open. The OG Flows (non-RT) might be worth a look too. They're a little pricier than Sundaras. Build quality is great. Not easily detachable pads is a downside, but they're super comfortable and sound awesome when adequately driven.
I am currently watching some aeons but only found the open (as I understand, the closed version is closer to the response I am looking for) I will keep watching for a used pair.

But so far the sash tres and duex, along with these aeons might be my next choice
I might also just give up on finding the "right" pair of headphones, this hobby was alot cheaper 7 years ago.
These days, we pay 500 for something that might not last longer then a couple years.
10 years ago you could get alot for 500.

I am not trying to bash hifiman, the are good cheap headphones, but not cheap or good enough for me to keep purchasing replacement headphones every couple years
 
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Nov 4, 2021 at 4:03 AM Post #1,322 of 1,381
Why would you trust an individual builder who could decide hang it up anytime than manufacture for warranty types of issue is beyond me.
Did you even try to ask HifiMan to repair HE4XX?
Yeah, like AEON and they crappy pads...
Or the hifiman and the drivers problems...

All this brands are boutique, even audeze.

Ive got another one man company headphone, the erzetich mania, and send a direct message to the person who build ur HP is the best experience ive ever had.

Hifiman is not going to repair the he4xx for less that a new pair could be bought on drop.
My pair starts to disintegrate after 6 months, barely used.
 
Nov 4, 2021 at 5:30 AM Post #1,323 of 1,381
Not a fan of the 4XX. My

* HE-5LE is 13 years old
* HE-500 is 9 years old
* HE-4XX and HEXv2 are 4 years old

The headband on the 500 is the only thing among them that "broke" and 1/2 of that was a choice for more comfort.

Now it's true that all the stock pads and cables were pitched by choice.

4XX outside of the crummy sound held up and it's headband gets 5-6 hours a week on my HE-500 and it's perfect.
 
Nov 4, 2021 at 5:45 AM Post #1,324 of 1,381
Not a fan of the 4XX. My

* HE-5LE is 13 years old
* HE-500 is 9 years old
* HE-4XX and HEXv2 are 4 years old

The headband on the 500 is the only thing among them that "broke" and 1/2 of that was a choice for more comfort.

Now it's true that all the stock pads and cables were pitched by choice.

4XX outside of the crummy sound held up and it's headband gets 5-6 hours a week on my HE-500 and it's perfect.
That's great, and I wish I could afford there higher end, but there are so many reviews and complaints of the same issue, and according to some consumer reports, my he4xx issues are all fairly common. He500 should last that long for that price. But considering th consumer reports and customer reviews, seems like you have gotten fairly lucky. Seems hifiman is famous for there diaphragm issues.
But, I did like the sound.
 
Nov 4, 2021 at 5:56 AM Post #1,325 of 1,381
Well, I guess I will stop responding, feel like I've gotten the info I needed, the maker of sash headphones was very quick to respond and he does offer replacement diaphragms.

So as much as I loved the he4xx, and even though I planned for the last year for the Sundaras.
I will take a chance with this underdog. Besides, Kharkov has great engineering and machining, much better then what China has (that's why Mercedes and BMW have so many parts made there (yes, German cars have Ukrainian made parts I have been in one of the factory's that makes the speakers for BMW)

I wasn't trying to bash hifiman, but the consumer reports speak for themselves, seems they have alot of diaphragm failures, broken headbands and connection issues, and there doesn't seem to be any warranty options in my country for them anyway.

Honestly, if they offered replacement parts, I would've stuck with them, but they don't offer replacement anything really.
 
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Nov 4, 2021 at 5:57 AM Post #1,326 of 1,381
Not a fan of the 4XX. My

* HE-5LE is 13 years old
* HE-500 is 9 years old
* HE-4XX and HEXv2 are 4 years old

The headband on the 500 is the only thing among them that "broke" and 1/2 of that was a choice for more comfort.

Now it's true that all the stock pads and cables were pitched by choice.

4XX outside of the crummy sound held up and it's headband gets 5-6 hours a week on my HE-500 and it's perfect.

Hifiman is a nice brand, but got some faulties unit (sundara v1 could be the clearly example)

For the price they usually offer a really nice product, even the 4xx is my number 1 recomendation for a starter audiophile journey (with a little bit of amp). But for my test, they are not build to live longer.

But not the only brand with that problem, my aeons, a 1000euros headphone, got the worst pads Ive ever see on headphone, the sony z7 got a so much better quality for the half of the price.
 
Nov 4, 2021 at 6:01 AM Post #1,327 of 1,381
Well, I guess this is it, I hope you all enjoy your he4xx as much as I did. Good by thread.
 
Nov 4, 2021 at 9:09 AM Post #1,328 of 1,381
That's great, and I wish I could afford there higher end, but there are so many reviews and complaints of the same issue, and according to some consumer reports, my he4xx issues are all fairly common. He500 should last that long for that price. But considering th consumer reports and customer reviews, seems like you have gotten fairly lucky. Seems hifiman is famous for there diaphragm issues.
But, I did like the sound.
Really dislike HFM cans outside of the drivers. I have read many of those accounts and consider myself lucky too. Still the two cans I want is the 6sev2 (have had v1 for 3 years w no problem) and the Susvara.
 
Nov 4, 2021 at 10:37 AM Post #1,329 of 1,381
Well, I can explain this fairly easily, even though I did love my he4xx.
If you study economics and related subjects, you would realize that large companies invest alot in planned obsolescence and marketing, where small boutique manufacturers tend to be better quality.
people said hifiman had terrible QC, I don't think they do, but it was amazing how one earpad came un glued after 2 years, then a month later the other pad came unglued, so I fixed them, then the headband broke, so I fixed that, then the other side of the headband broke, so I fixed it, then the right driver sizzled and crapped out, I don't have warranty, so it's fairly easy to see that it was not made to last longer then 2-3 years.
Then the plastics become frail, the glues begin to dry and since I am out of warranty then my only option is to buy another pair (exactly what the genius company executives hope for)
This model stands for any major company
Planned obsolescence is how most big companies design there products.
It's funny that even tho it was first invented by an American economist, it seems most Americans are oblivious to it, though its the reason why we are now close to environmental disaster (pollution caused by planned obsolescence)
Like apple, first they use a slightly smaller battery, then they removed the 3.5mm, so you are forced into Bluetooth (meanwhile Apple lobbies to take away the right to repair) so you will need 2 charges a day, that's roughly 600 cycles in a year, on a battery that starts breaking down at 500 charge cycles and to make it worst, they add so much glue that it's barely fixable.

So by supporting Apple I show the market that they can make more money by following apple, and we all end up with crappy over priced phones, that are difficult to fix and need replacing every 2 years.....
Like my precious he4xx. It was my first planar, I love it, I was ready to purchase the Sundaras.
But QC is an issue, there glue won't last longer then 2-3 years, and the membrane can fry at any moment (I was only pushing around 600mw when it happened)
So because hifiman has done so well at making sure there cheaper headphones don't last too long, and I am not a rich man, I am considering the boutique headphones, yes you are right, they can simply close shop, but if I can purchase a replacement diaphragm (hifiman does not do this) and since it was not built with planned obsolescence then it it's much higher value, not to mention that with small boutique goods you get better materials vs mass produced cheap plastic headphones that will end up in a landfill, killing the environment, little by little

You see, a large corporation knows it can make mistakes, they now that for every bad review they can generate 20 good ones, they know that marketing is king.
But a small boutique can't afford a mistake.
I understand we have been trained to beleive big corporations make better products, while small companies are not dependable.
So as much as I had my heart set on Sundaras, I don't want to pay 450 dollars for something that will crap out a year or 2 after warranty (extremely common issue for all hifiman models)
So by not purchasing another hifiman, I will be showing this company that it has made a mistake, and maybe it will fix it. Or I could be like most sheeple and buy the same headphones again and again..........

If only people understood........


And before you tell me I am wrong, my wife is an analyst, she literally studied this exact types of topics, and I am a production artist (I have extensive knowledge of materials, including plastics, chemicals like glue and paints, fixatives, woods, metals etc.)
So, some plastics go brittle after 2-3 years (has to do with the chemicals used to soften and type of plastic) cheap glues dry after a year or 2
But the fact that everything failed in a 4 month period means that this was planned
My HE-4XX's right driver went wonky after about a year. It would buzz on low frequencies (below 100Hz). When the new HE-X4's went up for sale on Drop I bought a set and they're pretty nice. Maybe not as refined in overall signature as the 4XX but a pretty close equivalent. Their advantages are: cheap (129 bucks), improved sliders, overall very good build quality, nice updated Focus A pads, less clamping force and an overall sound quite close to the 4XX. Double sided magnets too. I put on a set of Brainwavz oval pads and installed an OEM Sennheiser HD-650 headpad band using some velcro and I'm pretty satisfied. As usual w/planars likes lots of current to sound its best.
 
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Nov 4, 2021 at 4:30 PM Post #1,330 of 1,381
Hifiman is a nice brand, but got some faulties unit (sundara v1 could be the clearly example)

For the price they usually offer a really nice product, even the 4xx is my number 1 recomendation for a starter audiophile journey (with a little bit of amp). But for my test, they are not build to live longer.

But not the only brand with that problem, my aeons, a 1000euros headphone, got the worst pads Ive ever see on headphone, the sony z7 got a so much better quality for the half of the price.
Z7? Closed backs. Too bad.
 
Nov 4, 2021 at 4:54 PM Post #1,332 of 1,381
Im talking about pads mate. Relax

And z7mk2 are a really nice closed back, a little bit of reverb on hifg volume, but the stage and punchiness of the 70mm make them one of the best hp that Ive tried.
I'm relaxed. I've heard two closed backs that are decent and they carry a big price tag, and are IMO no match for lesser priced open cans. Plus we are talking an open can in this thread.
 
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Nov 6, 2021 at 6:01 PM Post #1,333 of 1,381
Yeah, like AEON and they crappy pads...
Or the hifiman and the drivers problems...

All this brands are boutique, even audeze.

Ive got another one man company headphone, the erzetich mania, and send a direct message to the person who build ur HP is the best experience ive ever had.

Hifiman is not going to repair the he4xx for less that a new pair could be bought on drop.
My pair starts to disintegrate after 6 months, barely used.
I would make a bet on Hifiman being there for the next 3 years, but I won't make a bet that someone won't take your money close their FB page and run in the next 3 months. If your HE4XX disintegrated in 6 months, you are under warranty repair. So I called BS.

If you are talking about repair cost, Senheisser won't repair your headphone for cheap either, HE4XX is pretty cheap already for $130.
What if you want to drop $1000 on Hifiman's higher end product? Or Mid-end Sundara. Then repair would be cheaper.

Regardless, buying from a personal workshop is much riskier than buying a "boutique" if you want to categorize every headphone companies as boutique.
 
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Nov 6, 2021 at 6:12 PM Post #1,334 of 1,381
I would make a bet on Hifiman being there for the next 3 years, but I won't make a bet that someone won't take your money close their FB page and run in the next 3 months. If your HE4XX disintegrated in 6 months, you are under warranty repair. So I called BS.

If you are talking about repair cost, Senheisser won't repair your headphone for cheap either, HE4XX is pretty cheap already for $130.
What if you want to drop $1000 on Hifiman's higher end product? Or Mid-end Sundara. Then repair would be cheaper.

Regardless, buying from a personal workshop is much riskier than buying a "boutique" if you want to categorize every headphone companies as boutique.

My senns 598 still maintain solid as first day with so much use.
Cant say the same of the he4xx, being in europe, bought in drop, the chances to use warranty for that are absurd. And I don't think crappy pads are cover by warranty.

About boutiques and another brands, u could make that statement, we would see on 3 years if u are right... funny to see mr. Speakers, a one man company on the main page of this forum with a 4000 dollars Headphone, after 4 years of work.
 
Nov 9, 2021 at 5:39 PM Post #1,335 of 1,381
My senns 598 still maintain solid as first day with so much use.
Cant say the same of the he4xx, being in europe, bought in drop, the chances to use warranty for that are absurd. And I don't think crappy pads are cover by warranty.

About boutiques and another brands, u could make that statement, we would see on 3 years if u are right... funny to see mr. Speakers, a one man company on the main page of this forum with a 4000 dollars Headphone, after 4 years of work.
I think you should measure the company by their revenue and capital/debt not the price of their headphone or do they pay for advertisement spot on headfi.
Hifi-Man has been around for over 10 years and Pandemic probably bump their revenue a bit. So I have no doubt they will exist.

We have established that HE's QC has been subpar, but either you don't want to use warranty or don't want to repair it, it's your choice.
However, there's always repair option given that the manufacture still exists. If it does not exists, then all hope is lost.
That being said, my 4XX still works after 1.5 yr and you could always replace the pad with 3rd party pad.
Being that it's priced at $120 during sale I don't think it's much of a problem. You would always see more bad review on QC problem than not.
Since leaving feedback is a biased feedback loop. people generally do not post positive feedback and say well my headphone works after 2 years, since it's expected.

On drop there are thousands of unit sold and maybe couple of hundred bad feedback, that gives you the QC stats.
The hazard rate is higher than usual, but I doubt it's what people on here claiming to be.
 
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