[Archlize]

there is a "all in dsd" mod on the fiio M15s, did not heard anything different but... who knows...

This point about the vocals is perhaps really important to me. Damn, how can I listen to these 2 beasts ??? I have to buy both... lol

Since you have the clear, I really think having a HEKV2 will compliment your collection very well. They're both amazing in their own way. But HEKV2 is much ahead when it comes to technicalities. I think HEKV2 does guitar very well, whenever I hear guitars its always sounds so real, natural and satisfying. FIrst time I auditioned I listened to "Daft Punk - Get Lucky" and "Polpyhia - Playing God". Those two tracks just blew my mind in the HEKV2, Honestly it sounds like it's in a different league.

Or tightens the bass
Or remove some of its beef



This might very well be a psychacoustical effect

That's what I actually feel too. Very interesting, I never bothered with DSD sampled until thetaburn recommended to me. Now just deciding between Audirvana or Roon. To me Audirvana Origin sounds just slightly better, but Roon's functionality and metadata identifier is too good to pass on.

 

[mlembis]

Thank you. Tastes are obviously a part of the equation and on my side I find the 4k-6k of the Clear too much muted. It is necessary, but to a point a bit far for me. So I put a bit of EQ in this zone, but not many, perhaps 1.5 or 2db, don't remember now. It changes the global rendering a lot, and I like more. It is easy to switch with the M15s to do a direct comparison. As @AlvianFarrel said, it seems to be better to get an Utopia directly ^^ Not the same price, that is the problem...

IME, the Utopia keeps what the Clear does well and fixes some wonkiness in the tonal balance/timbre. Then it adds better depth, imaging and layering. He1000V2 is very different, softer and sweeter transients, more grand and can be a little thin for some, especially when coming from the warm intimate Focal house sound. So it is a matter of preference. However, I will say, Utopia and He1000 V2 are definitely at least 1 if not 2 steps up from the Clear. Just depends which route you want to go, both are great headphones!

 

[Archlize]

IME, the Utopia keeps what the Clear does well and fixes some wonkiness in the tonal balance/timbre. Then it adds better depth, imaging and layering. He1000V2 is very different, softer and sweeter transients, more grand and can be a little thin for some, especially when coming from the warm intimate Focal house sound. So it is a matter of preference. However, I will say, Utopia and He1000 V2 are definitely at least 1 if not 2 steps up from the Clear. Just depends which route you want to go, both are great headphones!

Very much agree with your impression! Focal puts you inside the music, while Hifiman makes you feel like you're in a concert hall.

 

[boodi]

@AlvianFarrel My fav feed is 24 / 96 and I rarely pass it , the only album that i feel quite worth having 24/ 192 is Vangelis Blade Runner ost ; so many of my listenings come to my ears in this format .

I feel both v2 and se appreciate to a fair extent the hi-res format ( you likely too ..); for my remaining 16/44 it really depends on production , sometimes DSD upsampling or remastering helps for some reasons ( definition on top of them ) , other times is more of a change a flavour , rarely is very worse .
Sensible in any case .

 

[Archlize]

@AlvianFarrel My fav feed is 24 / 96 and I rarely pass it , the only album that i feel quite worth having 24/ 192 is Vangelis Blade Runner ost ; so many of my listenings come to my ears in this format .

I feel both v2 and se appreciate to a fair extent the hi-res format ( you likely too ..); for my remaining 16/44 it really depends on production , sometimes DSD upsampling or remastering helps for some reasons ( definition on top of them ) , other times is more of a change a flavour , rarely is very worse .
Sensible in any case .

Yeah I do feel that way. 24/192 in a lot of cases are not very worth it. But I'm a big believer that before upgrading your headphone, the first tastes of Hi-Fi you can get is by using Hi-Res of Flac files in general. Because no matter how bad your IEM or HPS is you can definitely hear the difference between lossy vs lossless. That's how I got my first tastes in Hi-Fi with my Sony XM4 (yes I ate those tech youtubers recommendations loI).

But anyway, haven't heard a single track where DSD Upsampling makes it worse. But I haven't listen to everything in my library haha. I'm actually quite interested on the SE. But I think I'll pass, and my only reasoning is because I feel like I'm going to get a Susvara at some point, so might as well save up for that. Have you ever tried the Susvara, and compared it with the SE and V2?

 

[boodi]

I can (anyday) but that would be in an underpowered system..
not so worth likely, besides having a v281 as amp I wouldn't have a chance fast and easily to run them paired properly, etc
>I decided to not enter the rabbit hole at the moment; this is helped by fact that anyday i stay away from hekse and get back to them I am amazed . Literally. Lately i plugged them into the v280/281 and mids or even instruments tonal balance got better ..seemingly so at least as it is a recent thing. Problem became sacrifice of air , and that marvellous airy out of head stage - caused by some high frq cut or extra smoothing, i don't notice it particularly with v2 but is definitely noticeable on hekse

Also i move quite a lot Susvara wouldn't follow easily, where Hekse are amazing in such a context and with DAP : again..so..
even if I find a deal or a good chance for Susvara , i would still be using hekse the most..I already know my ears would want Susvara pushed to their potential or close too.

That's why I refrain for the moment.

 

[Patlezinc]

Very much agree with your impression! Focal puts you inside the music, while Hifiman makes you feel like you're in a concert hall.

Now I have to take a risk. Taking the 1400$ one but I don’t think I can return it (to the US?) or taking at 1950€ and being able to return (the Amp of the M15s is another unknown parameter here. 104db is ok on the m15s, 90db is something else, even if I don’t listen loudly usually)

 

[Archlize]

Now I have to take a risk. Taking the 1400$ one but I don’t think I can return it (to the US?) or taking at 1950€ and being able to return (the Amp of the M15s is another unknown parameter here. 104db is ok on the m15s, 90db is something else, even if I don’t listen loudly usually)

I think you can return it, because it says that it's available for US, Canada, EU, and UK..?
According to the Hifiman website :

"Open-box products also come with HIFIMAN's standard warranty and if you are not satisfied with the product for any reason, you can return the item in 30 days."

I do think 1950Euros is a bit steep for a V2, since I got mine used for 1400Euros and it comes with a 3 year warranty. I don't think you should be worry too much with the m15. Its one hell of an amp. I ran the V2 comfortably with my Ibasso DX300 in low gain, with volume around 70%-90% which still leaves me 10% headroom for certain classical music.

I can (anyday) but that would be im an underpowered system ( not worth likely, besides having a v281 as amp I wouldn't have a chance fast and easily to run them paired properly, etc >I decided to not enter the rabbit hole at the moment; this is helped by the fact that anyday i stay away from hekse and get back to them I am amazed . literally. Lately i plugged them into the v280/281 and mids or even instruments tonal balance got better ..seemingly so at least. Problem is the sacrifice of air and that marvellous out of head stage .

Also i move quite a lot Susvara wouldn't follow easily..whwre Hekse are amazing in this context : again..so..
even if I find a deal or a good chance for Susvara , i would still be using hekse the most.

That's why I refrain for the moment.

Fair enough, Man.. I'm so tempted on exchanging the v2 for a Hekse haha. V2 is the sound I really want from the headphone, it's just missing that final "umph". But Yeah, Susvara is one hell of a beast to drive. How close do you think the Hekse is to the Susvara? I heard so many people calling it the Mini Portable Susvara haha.

 

[boodi]

fair enough, Man.. I'm so tempted on exchanging the v2 for a Hekse haha. V2 is the sound I really want from the headphone, it's just missing that final "umph". But Yeah, Susvara is one hell of a beast to drive. How close do you think the Hekse is to the Susvara? I heard so many people calling it the Mini Portable Susvara haha.

If you like the v2 and miss an extra umph , hekse won't give that extra..so you are safe from upgrade in this case.
Hekse is super-dry in bass , for me is a quality , I might be in the minority

Some people prefer hekse over Susvara so it's not far as for general quality . I gathered an impression that hekse -while definitely better on portable - might be better also for some genres and ..with more fun.

Susvara might be the most mature headphone out for my taste too : when properly powered and matched , and that's also to one' own taste and ears. I am not ready for the journey and happy instead quite to avoid consuming myself behind it , for now.

About which one is the baby Susvara, the odiens is thorn .. some say original v2 which is rounder then hekse , is closer when matched and scaled up with the chain so..hekse and Susvara share that uncanny stage precision though..etc. Likely a tough call depending on different and personal factors

 

[InquisitiveLogic]

Interesting.. For some reason it also remove the slight imbalance that I have, because of my narrow right ear canal too.

@AlvianFarrel My fav feed is 24 / 96 and I rarely pass it , the only album that i feel quite worth having 24/ 192 is Vangelis Blade Runner ost ; so many of my listenings come to my ears in this format .

I feel both v2 and se appreciate to a fair extent the hi-res format ( you likely too ..); for my remaining 16/44 it really depends on production , sometimes DSD upsampling or remastering helps for some reasons ( definition on top of them ) , other times is more of a change a flavour , rarely is very worse .
Sensible in any case .

Yeah I do feel that way. 24/192 in a lot of cases are not very worth it. But I'm a big believer that before upgrading your headphone, the first tastes of Hi-Fi you can get is by using Hi-Res of Flac files in general. Because no matter how bad your IEM or HPS is you can definitely hear the difference between lossy vs lossless. That's how I got my first tastes in Hi-Fi with my Sony XM4 (yes I ate those tech youtubers recommendations loI).

But anyway, haven't heard a single track where DSD Upsampling makes it worse. But I haven't listen to everything in my library haha. I'm actually quite interested on the SE. But I think I'll pass, and my only reasoning is because I feel like I'm going to get a Susvara at some point, so might as well save up for that. Have you ever tried the Susvara, and compared it with the SE and V2?

The standard CD format 16/44 is the most appropriate sound format technically and also proven so in blind ABX testing.
Anything high res sounding better has got more to do with psychoacoustical/subjective listener bias/placebo effect than anything actually attributable to improved sound quality.
It's elucidated many a times that for a well mastered track, the chance of hearing a difference b/w 320kbps MP3 and 128kbps MP3 and even a FLAC and 320 MP3, has got more to with mere chance than the ears actually hearing a difference!
If the plug ins or resampler change the sound (for good or bad), it's gotta do more with the piece of code actually coloring the sound rather than improving the technicalities or the physics behind the sound.

https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/d...ly, there is no point,192 solves none of them.

https://xiph.org/video/vid2.shtml

 

[boodi]

it's all about your ears right ?

it's gotta do more with the piece of code actually coloring the sound rather than improving the technicalities or the physics behind the sound.

it's gotta do more with your ears and pleasure actually then anything else ..... ,
besides hundreds lectures or tests and cheerleaders clubbing for a thing or the other , I don't give a $ about what's common or not : I trust my ears and pleasure
besides that in my -not so long- musician career I got to hear similar things in slightly different situations and I trust hearing training , and I met different ears and sensitivities ( nice thing by the way ..) , I am not particularly interested in convincing someone or someone other of a specifical acoustical fact .. I mind about music pleasure .
Headphoning and moreover then so the hi-end category has less to do with a common acoustical fact then it has to do with the personal acoustical fact and pleasure . In fact people prefer Susvara or Abyss 1266 or The Utopia or else .. there's no consensus on which one is the best too , just general assumption on why/where one is better then the other , some people agree other disagree about it ,.. so people opinion and choose differently .


also ,

It's elucidated many a times that for a well mastered track,

in fact many advice using upsampling or remastering on old productions , that have not been remastered , or less then stellar productions or average mixes etc
case I was talking too before upsampling and remastering to DSD format may add or lessen something or something else , the result can be more or less pleasurable , some sound traits can improve....or if you prefer , assume a more pleasurable contour / character ; some other with DSD may loose ( i.e dynamics , body of notes in some cases , or plucks vibrancy ? just saying )

talking original/master format ( if 16/44 or 24/96 i.e. ) is another thing

 

[boodi]

Mostly these 2 tracks.. but I guess it gets better during the day, maybe it's brain burn-in. I'm not too sure to be honest. Or maybe because my ear starts to become less oily during the day. ( I clean my ears daily just in case )

after listening with the different combo I can say -first of all- both tracks have forward/radio cut vocals , feels a lot also that ( in both ) effects have been applied largely on mixes and eq on voice , results if compared to more natural records ( i.e. jazz female vocals ) is quite un-natural and exposes sibilance or even evident traits of highs hardness on v2 ( second song ) ..using v281 too (warmest amp I have ) so..
the second track much more evident then Taylor Swift but both have forward "edgy" vocals , the choruses have auto tune too, the clap of hands is very digital in the second mix and I could go on for anything here it's all digital with glare reverbs on sounds and voices ..

just my 2c

flac 16/44 , no upsampling or filter applied

 

[InquisitiveLogic]

it's all about your ears right ?


it's gotta do more with your ears and pleasure actually then anything else ..... ,
besides hundreds lectures or tests and cheerleaders clubbing for a thing or the other , I don't give a $ about what's common or not : I trust my ears and pleasure
besides that in my -not so long- musician career I got to hear similar things in slightly different situations and I trust training hearing and I met different ears and sensitivity ( nice things by the way ..) , I am not particularly interested in convincing someone or someone other of a specifical acoustical fact .. I mind about music pleasure .
Headphoning has less to do with a common acoustical fact then it has to do with the personal acoustical fact and pleasure . In fact people prefer Susvara or Abyss 1266 or The Utopia or else .. there's no consensus on which one is the best too , just general assumption on why/where one is better then the other , some people agree other disagree about it.


also ,



in fact many advice using upsampling or remastering on old productions , that have not been remastered , or less then stellar productions or average mixes etc
case I was talking too before

upsampling and remastering to DSD format may add or lessen something or something else , the result can be more or less pleasurable , some sound traits can improve....or if you prefer , assume a more pleasurable contour / character ; some other with DSD may loose ( i.e dynamics , body of notes in some cases , or plucks vibrancy ? just saying )

talking original/master format ( if 16/44 or 24/96 i.e. ) is another thing

I can understand where you come from and what you mean.

My post is regards the fact that psychoacoustical perceptions/subjective bias/placebo effect are the more pertinent factors in giving an audibly perceptible difference rather than the actual technicalities changing via hardware and software.

Science says, 24/192 or anything high res is redundant for music playback but if someone's ears notice and enjoy the format, then all the joy to them.
It's kinda the same way, like some abhor death metal where as some listen to the the genre exclusively!

A few years back, I changed/upgraded(!) my BluRay player to a one that could play SACDs. Acquired a few SACD discs as well, enjoyed them for a few months (note - maybe they sounded better but more so for the mukti channel sound) and now the DSD format is just lying in my collection as a novelty item when I want to flex Pink Floyd DSOTM soundtrack as a surround sound on my home theater!

For the sheer musical pleasure I mostly don't even care if I am listening to FLACs or MP3s in my library.

 

[Archlize]

The standard CD format 16/44 is the most appropriate sound format technically and also proven so in blind ABX testing.
Anything high res sounding better has got more to do with psychoacoustical/subjective listener bias/placebo effect than anything actually attributable to improved sound quality.
It's elucidated many a times that for a well mastered track, the chance of hearing a difference b/w 320kbps MP3 and 128kbps MP3 and even a FLAC and 320 MP3, has got more to with mere chance than the ears actually hearing a difference!
If the plug ins or resampler change the sound (for good or bad), it's gotta do more with the piece of code actually coloring the sound rather than improving the technicalities or the physics behind the sound.

https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html#:~:text=Unfortunately, there is no point,192 solves none of them.

https://xiph.org/video/vid2.shtml

I'm not going to deny that some people won't be able to hear the difference. I think for me personally, could once again be placebo. I think higher formats adds more air and separation in my subjective opinion. Although like you said, if the master recording is bad, it won't change anything. For example Bohemian Rhapsody, I almost couldn't distinguish the cd format vs the 192khz. The only tiny different is just how worse the distortion gets during the guitar solo. So I don't doubt it, but yeah I agree but disagree at the same time.

after listening with the different combo I can say -first of all- both tracks have forward/radio cut vocals , feels a lot also that ( in both ) effects have been applied largely on mixes and eq on voice , results if compared to more natural records ( i.e. jazz female vocals ) is quite un-natural and exposes sibilance or even evident traits of highs hardness on v2 ( second song ) ..using v281 too (warmest amp I have ) so..
the second track much more evident then Taylor Swift but both have forward "edgy" vocals , the choruses have auto tune too, the clap of hands is very digital in the second mix and I could go on for anything here it's all digital with glare reverbs on sounds and voices ..

just my 2c

flac 16/44 , no upsampling or filter applied

Interesting, yeah the mixes makes their vocals sounds very thin. Because after listening it more and more, only specific female vocals seems thin on the HEKV2. I think good Vocals actually sounds amazing on HEKV2, but high, bad recorded vocals will sound very sharp. For example Charlie Puth, God. I can't listen to him at all in the HEKV2. The top end sounds very very harsh. I had to grab my clear MG for that, which warms it out a bit.

 

[boodi]

@InquisitiveLogic
My dad has cochlear implant
he have switches ( think of dsp filters and gain )
while old , he still can hear absurdely thin sounds ( insects ) in an almost silent environment
this is extreme and reach far out of my hearing limits.

we have different ears . from outside shapes , eardrums to inner ear , to chemistry - electrical transmission - encefalic trunk and conscience , quite a trip for sound transmission etc ,the variants and mixes are there ..