[ToroFiestaSol]

My life was 20% better before reading this thread. Typical Midfiman, gross and shameless, but expected.

 

[elvergun]

HifiMan gets attacks no matter what.

And, apparently, there are a handful of people who are willing to defend them no matter what they do.

Way to go, crusader.

This claim that all this about ethics is hollow.

Not really. Your definition of ethics is somewhat warped. I can't believe you are even arguing about ethics in this thread. Then again, you are a crusader...do your best.

 

[Fegefeuer]

Dude, get off your horse.

Many here own and owned more Hifiman headphones than you were able to list. You didn't even mention the HE-6, HE-500 days which actually made Hifiman what they are today.

A lot invested kilobucks into their chains to power their HE-6's, HE-5's etc
There was a huge modding scene for these and some bought them twice just to play around.

We know what Hifiman achieved, no need to lecture us, especially when you are downright wrong and do not understand why people do not take this approach seriously. Instead you are interpreting this as a tribute when instead Fang mocked the R10 itself and Sony. What are you on? Did you even read this thread?

Hifiman is not free from critique and does not need baseless white knighting and handwaving.

 

[KPzypher]

HifiMan...

• Makes one of the very best open back headphones on the market. It seems to sell quite well despite a 6K price tag and claims of build issues.
• Makes the only high-end open back bluetooth headphone (Ananda BT). And it gets very positive reviews.
• Brings out a flagship closed back and prices it around the same price as it flagship open back. (Like Focal)
• Brings out a less expensive version of their new closed back flagship simultaneously, thus offering an expensive and a less expensive choice. (Again, like Focal)
• Brings out the very first ToTL closed back on the market with BT capability.
• Names and shapes their new headphone to pay tribute to legendary headphone that has not been made in twenty years that Head-Fiers still seek out. Makes no effort to deceive anyone that their new headphone is a recreation of the old R10. Uses the R10 name knowing that no one except dedicated enthusiasts will even know about the old Sony R10 i.e. they used the name as a hat tip to us. (BTW, I don't see any outrage on Head-Fi about Monoprice, a company that actually does rip off designs of smaller boutique headphone companies.)
• Contributes to the resurgence in ToTL closed back headphones; an area largely ignored by manufactures until the last few years.

If Head-Fi is really a hobby as some claim, we should be thrilled about this headphone and be speculating on sound quality. Instead, we get border line racist attack on "chi-fi," complaints that the founder once said something someone does not like, complaints about build quality, etc. etc. We get worries about "ripping off" Sony, a company that made 4.5 billion USD in profit last year alone. It is not that there is no truth to any of this. The problem is that if the reaction to a company to HifiMan, a company with their long history in the hobbyist community, bringing out a new flagship is to s*** all over them without ever hearing them, then Head-Fi as a hobby is dead, as far as I'm concerned.

You all seem to love a pile on. I think they just bring out the absolute worst in posters. Too many act like HifiMan personally attacked them rather than simply bringing out a new product.

This topic is just a ton of negativity. It is wrong, it is becoming ugly, and most importantly, it is no fun.

You make some good points here, but what is there to be thrilled about paying $5.5k for a Bluetooth HP seemingly with Deva build quality and R-10 woodcups???

The back and forth about paying homage or ripoff is beside the point.

I think they deliberately set the price high at entry then little after launch bring it down substantially to deceiving consumers to thinking they're getting one helluva deal, when in reality it was never worth that much money.

 

[VandyMan]

You make some good points here, but what is there to be thrilled about paying $5.5k for a Bluetooth HP seemingly with Deva build quality and R-10 woodcups???

The back and forth about paying homage or ripoff is beside point.

I think they deliberately set the price high at entry then little after launch bring it down substantially to deceiving consumers to think they're getting one helluva deal, when in reality it was never worth that much money.

My main point is that we don't know anything about how these sound, how the build quality is, or even if the physical resemblance to the Deva headband is meaningful. But we sure are ready to judge. Some here would apparently throw HifiMan out of the headphone business. Because this hobby would be some much better off without them. Right.

 

[elvergun]

My main point is that we don't know anything about how these sound, how the build quality is,

How can that be your main point since you have not heard them and you don't know how they are built? You could be arguing in favor of a crappy sounding headphone that will fall apart after one month.

So how can you argue anything since no one in this thread is talking about how they sound or about their build quality...except for you....without having heard them or held them in your hands.

 

[rthomas]

Crap! Don't tell the Taiwanese that they aren't Chinese! (Ok, bad humour.)



No, I didn't say that. I said, as you pointed out, that I "don't see the big deal", but specifically about the Sony R-10s. Maybe I should clarify to be sure: I don't see why people are so worked up about the R10s. My impression of what upsets people is that, specifically, HiFiMan copied the cups of the R10 (and not some other design) and that the R10 is such a special pair of headphones, that copying them is a kind of sacrilege. If I'm wrong, let me know.

Dear sir,

Do you own a Susvara? How much discount did you get from Hifiman?

We know the review team get a ton of discounts and long term loaners from sponsors, no need to defend them at every opportunity....

This action by Hifiman is clearly unethical. Nothing illegal about it just unethical and not too surprising given the way they operate.

No hate from me , just a reasonable opinion

 

[VandyMan]

How can that be your main point since you have not heard them and you don't know how they are built? You could be arguing in favor of a crappy sounding headphone that will fall apart after one month.

So how can you argue anything since no one in this thread is talking about how they sound or about their build quality...except for you....without having heard them or held them in your hands.

I'm arguing for an open mind about a company that makes a lot of well regarded products and has a long history in making headphones for enthusiasts.

 

[ToroFiestaSol]

@VandyMan Nothing wrong with having an unpopular opinion, but you should pick your fights wisely. Use more nuanced and abstract topics that lend themselves to a discussion, not a black or white, ultra simple and clear topic like this one, where a different opinion than "the sky is blue" is interpreted as "he doesn't know how to read yet".

Stay safe, cheerful and healthy
best regards

 

[soas]

What's going on in post #9? Is that from Hifiman themselves or did someone photoshop those as a joke?

 

[Mediahound]

What's going on in post #9? Is that from Hifiman themselves or did someone photoshop those as a joke?

Photoshopped joke.

 

[KPzypher]

What I really want to know is the actual cost for HFM to make these headphones. And I'm not just talking about the cost of goods sold (COGS), but from concept to market launch to include R&D costs. And they can't just chalk it up to R&D. I bet YOUR left NUT its no where near the amount Sony or Sennheiser spends with their R&D. Yet Sony's current flagship is at a fraction of the cost with much higher build quality and choice of materiel used. That's the real deception here. They can easily flood the forums with sponsored reviews and herd the cats. High-end audio is relatively a small community. This is why I have zero respect for sponsored reviews.

 

[VandyMan]

@VandyMan Nothing wrong with having an unpopular opinion, but you should pick your fights wisely. Use more nuanced and abstract topics that lend themselves to a discussion, not a black or white, ultra simple and clear topic like this one, where a different opinion than "the sky is blue" is interpreted as "he doesn't know how to read yet".

Stay safe, cheerful and healthy
best regards

Thanks for the advice. I just found this topic so depressing. Everyone seems so angry all of the time around here lately. For me, it is robbing the fun out of it. I'm going to log off and enjoy some time outdoors. You have a good day too.

 

[elvergun]

I'm arguing for an open mind about a company that makes a lot of well regarded products and has a long history in making headphones for enthusiasts.

This company is making headphones to make money. What, you thought they are making headphones and selling them at cost just to make you (and enthusiasts) happy?

If this company really cared about enthusiasts they would invest some of that money they make to make sure a lot of those well regarded products don't fall apart as soon as you open the package.

But hey, I'm pretty sure that these headphones will sound great. Too bad the owner seems to be a d-head.

 

[VandyMan]

There was no headphone hobby before forums existed? Really?

So no one discussed or played sports before there was a format to have mass discussions about them?

Did you just have a stroke?

I could go into the history, since I was there, but I'll save that for another time. I'll just say that a small collection of unconnected enthusiasts is not really a hobby, IMO. The world of headphones was very different before Headwize, Headcase, and Head-Fi, at least here in the US. Unlike sports, headphones were a solitary interest and consumerism does not easily translate into a hobby without discussion. I'd say the main exception to this were DIYers. Just my opinion.