[GrandNagus50]

Sony engineers consider those cups to be only causing more reverb thus affiliate to nothing more than that nostalgic era of 'low-res' CD quality recordings.

So is the MDR-R10 not a good headphone by today's standards?

 

[ervin192]

So is the MDR-R10 not a good headphone by today's standards?

I suspect they'd still admit it sounds beautiful but won't pay homage to it in technical standards (of their own).

 

[ruhenheiM]

The problem is that the headband comes from the $220 Devo and the ear pads are $50 Sundara pads.
This means that Hifiman believes the wood cups and planar driver WITH ZERO RnD to cost around (at a conservative estimate) $5200.

labor cost is super expensive in china if you know what i mean

 

[AutumnCrown]

Seems like

I don't understand the immediate and visceral hostility to this move by Hifiman.

Hifiman is an interesting case. For a while they seemed to survive with pure sound quality chops alone, neglecting build quality and after sales support. However, their support has actually gotten pretty good, and their built quality... well it's still hit or miss, but seemingly better than it was before. However, they have continued to annoy people with strange marketing moves: Copying the HE-1, releasing the most expensive planar ever with the same build quality as cheaper products, and now releasing a carbon copy of a legendary Sony headphone. I think these actions go against certain norms or mores that exist in the US - of craftsmanship being a huge part of why people buy high end products, and that you should have to earn your place in the market through your own innovation and many years of good relationships with customers. Hifiman is a new company, but it acts in many ways like an established legacy brand - going so far as to literally copy the products of these brands. This rubs people the wrong way, and I wonder if some people feel that Hifiman acts unethically by using innovations or ideas from other companies and selling it at the highest price that the market might be able to stand. Personally I don't really mind it, as long as they are following the same copyright rules as everyone else, although I would rather see an improvement upon the R10, a spiritual successor, than a carbon copy of it.

 

[Mink]

So when will they do a homage of the M50Xs and Beats by Dre? Can't wait

 

[omniweltall]

I bought a HiFiMan Sundara last year, and I loved the sound of it, and I treated it like my baby.
Then I noticed that they would get scratched when adjusting the fit because they were only painted there.
Had them replaced by the web shop where I bought them. The new pair also had the same issue.

After some time both of the earpads came apart simultaneously because they had glued the seam not stitched it.
This is something I then found out to be rather common and something that HiFiMan was aware of.
Had a lot of discussions back and forth with the webshop where I bought them and the distributor about getting the earpads replaced.
Got new earpads but I was not able to put them on due to the horrible system used to fit them.

After some more back and forth I was able to return them and get a new pair of Beyerdynamic DT1770 Pro instead.
Very different sounding but wonderful headphones. Built like a tank. Made in Germany. I still miss the HiFiMan sound, but that's the ONLY
positive thing about the Sundaras. Horrible build quality and poor realiablity. Won't ever go there again....

I think HiFiMan should concentrate all their efforts into improving the build quality of their products to the point where they're as reliable as a pair of Beyerdynamic, or Sennheiser headphones of rank.... until then, just as Reebonz said I'm not gonna touch another HiFiMan product.

//gradolover.

It's sad to keep hearing this from people.

However, build quality is not the first reason I stayed away from Hifiman. It is the founder's sleazy business principle.

 

[paradoxper]

However, build quality is not the first reason I stayed away from Hifiman. It is the founder's sleazy business principle.

Thank you.

 

[sennfan83261]

Seems like


Hifiman is an interesting case. ... now releasing a carbon copy of a legendary Sony headphone... Personally I don't really mind it, as long as they are following the same copyright rules as everyone else, although I would rather see an improvement upon the R10, a spiritual successor, than a carbon copy of it.

You mean that Hifiman's dynamic driver R10's are going feature select biocellulose drivers from Ajinomoto, wooden cups machined from 200 year old Aizu zelkova tree's, and have the same sound signature for $1,400 compared to Sony's MSRP of $2,500 back in 1989? That's a steal.

 

[Mink]

I remember a time at head-fi when people were complaining about why Sony discontinued the R10s and if there was a R10 equivalent out there. An expensive, but relatively affordable alternative the HE-R10 Dynamic driver is finally introduced and people complaint about copy catting, and being a Chinese company. ???

 

[AutumnCrown]

You mean that Hifiman's dynamic driver R10's are going feature select biocellulose drivers from Ajinomoto, wooden cups machined from 200 year old Aizu zelkova tree's, and have the same sound signature for $1,400 compared to Sony's MSRP of $2,500 back in 1989? That's a steal.

lol, I think we all wish that were true, except maybe new bio cellulose drivers which don't degrade over time. To be extremely pedantic, carbon copies are not printed on the same paper or with the same ink as the original. Who knows, maybe this will sound even better.

 

[Mink]

How do the original R10s compare to the likes of ZMF? Would the Atticus not have a similar euphonic sound, compared to the R10 bass heavy version that is?
Or does the unusual cup design and with it the particular cup reverb of the R10s really make a difference for the good?

 

[XERO1]

A $5000 headphone that uses the exact same crappy headband as the $300 Deva?!

 

[ruhenheiM]

lol, I think we all wish that were true, except maybe new bio cellulose drivers which don't degrade over time. To be extremely pedantic, carbon copies are not printed on the same paper or with the same ink as the original. Who knows, maybe this will sound even better.

to be fair from my memory, it was the first bio cellulose drivers to be ever use in audio, wasn't it? and it was release in 1988/1989. so you know, maybe sony didn't have enough time to do more extensive research on that

found this old brochures on internet about r10. maybe take a closer look on this brochures would help us to understand which part of this "homage r10" is a homage

Spoiler: oldies

A $5000 headphone that uses the exact same crappy headband as the $300 Deva?!

learn some math bro. the driver+cup+sound worth of ( 5000-300)= $4700. sound about right, seems legit

 

[franci2105]

I bought a HiFiMan Sundara last year, and I loved the sound of it, and I treated it like my baby.
Then I noticed that they would get scratched when adjusting the fit because they were only painted there.
Had them replaced by the web shop where I bought them. The new pair also had the same issue.

After some time both of the earpads came apart simultaneously because they had glued the seam not stitched it.
This is something I then found out to be rather common and something that HiFiMan was aware of.
Had a lot of discussions back and forth with the webshop where I bought them and the distributor about getting the earpads replaced.
Got new earpads but I was not able to put them on due to the horrible system used to fit them.

After some more back and forth I was able to return them and get a new pair of Beyerdynamic DT1770 Pro instead.
Very different sounding but wonderful headphones. Built like a tank. Made in Germany. I still miss the HiFiMan sound, but that's the ONLY
positive thing about the Sundaras. Horrible build quality and poor realiablity. Won't ever go there again....

I think HiFiMan should concentrate all their efforts into improving the build quality of their products to the point where they're as reliable as a pair of Beyerdynamic, or Sennheiser headphones of rank.... until then, just as Reebonz said I'm not gonna touch another HiFiMan product.

//gradolover.

The care more about the sound because they sell more headphones for the sound than for the build quality

 

[Roderick]

I would have been fine with this if it was done differently. If Hifiman had approached this with an intent to honor r10's design and with genuine intent to upgrade R10's to the new millenium. It could have even been quite cool.

They could have upgraded the headband material into something new. Offer a vegan option for earpads and headband and it's suspension strip. It's something that is nice to have in 2020. They could have made a driver out of Berylliym or graphene, or something else not available in 1989...or just improved upon Sony's biocellulose driver. They could have explained that Zelkova wood could not be used because it is endangered but they did copious amounts of research to find wood acoustically identical. Heck...if the R10's cup design is not the best possible they could have said it is a double cavity headphone and R10 style cups are just the exterior and just for paying homage to original design. I don't even oppose the idea of a planar "R10" but the idea needs to presented better. They could have done loads of things with it. And they should have done a proper press release instead of a teaser video. Who knows, maybe they did some great things and it's not just a money grab(lol).

But so far it seems it's crappy woodwork with headband from $149 He400i(2020), Bluetooth module but no dual entry cable option(some homage indeed). If Hifiman can they need to start explaining what this is all about and actual ideas about the design because right now it looks like cheaply build R10 ripoff.

I wish they would get rid of R10 name and rename it to something more fitting like Hifiman Arthatṛṣ.