[HiFlight]

I am gaining the impression from the number of power-related posts that the power requirements of the HE6 are being considered as a shortcoming of this phone.  IMO, the fact that it performs at its best when driven from the speaker terminals of even modestly- powered amplifiers is no different than the unique power requirements of the Stax and other electrostatic phones, the K1000, and to a lesser degree, the K340's and HD800.  
 
To to imply a deficiency of the HE6 for the same thing as is commonly accepted as the norm for other high-end phones seems to me to be rather short-sighted, considering the level of performance that can be obtained with the appropriate choice of amplification.  

 

[baka1969]

Quote:Originally Posted by MacedonianHero 



"It would seem that a full speaker amp is ideal for these headphones. I'm sure the B22 could handle them, but I'm beginning to wonder if a speaker amp would be better still? "



This is the concern I have with the HE-6. Forget the fact of having to buy what would essentially be a dedicated amp strictly for the HE-6, I just don't have any more space. The B22 is rated at 18 watts at 8 Ohms. It drives the HE-5LE just fine but still needs as much power the amp has to give it. The prototypes NEEDED a speaker amp. Even if the production HE-6 is more efficient, to what end are they? If they still require a speaker amp, (and from what I've read they still do) what difference did it make? I'm hearing numbers like 100 watt amps. Is this efficient? If the HE-6 could be driven to it's full potential with my amp I'd seriously contemplate it.

 

[modic]

Is the retail version start shipping yet?
I am waiting for some more reviews before I decide on it and Lcd-2

 

[crumpler]

 
It seems i might be missing something here. My HE-6s arrived way ahead of schedule and due to the delay in shipment of the Audio-GD NFB-10s, i'm stucked with just using the Nuforce HDP to power the HE-6s at the moment.
 
With the volume on Foobar2000 and Windows set on maximum, the HDP powers the HE-6s louder than i care to hear at the 12 o'clock position. For usual listening volume levels, i listen with the volume dial just slightly above 9 o'clock position. So as much as i understand that volume doesn't necessarily equate to efficiently powering the cans, even my mere HDP can get very very loud. So could it be that most head-fiers listen to music at volume levels that will result in permanent hearing damage, i've been shipped the "Hifiman HE-6 super efficient edition" or the AMP requirements for the HE-6s aren't really as demanding as made out to be?
 
Just to add, the HE-6s do sound wonderful at low listening level, quite a bit better than the HD800s at similar volume levels.
 
Quote:

Quote:Originally Posted by MacedonianHero 



"It would seem that a full speaker amp is ideal for these headphones. I'm sure the B22 could handle them, but I'm beginning to wonder if a speaker amp would be better still? "



This is the concern I have with the HE-6. Forget the fact of having to buy what would essentially be a dedicated amp strictly for the HE-6, I just don't have any more space. The B22 is rated at 18 watts at 8 Ohms. It drives the HE-5LE just fine but still needs as much power the amp has to give it. The prototypes NEEDED a speaker amp. Even if the production HE-6 is more efficient, to what end are they? If they still require a speaker amp, (and from what I've read they still do) what difference did it make? I'm hearing numbers like 100 watt amps. Is this efficient? If the HE-6 could be driven to it's full potential with my amp I'd seriously contemplate it.

 

[HiFlight]

The HE6 in no way requires 100watts of power!!   My small Virtue at 40wpc can power them to a level far greater than I would ever listen to. 
Yes, the use of a speaker amp does make a huge difference in the performance of this phone.  If space is a consideration another amp that is reasonably priced and very small that will also power them effortlessly is the Winsome Labs Mouse.

 
Quote:

Quote:Originally Posted by MacedonianHero



"It would seem that a full speaker amp is ideal for these headphones. I'm sure the B22 could handle them, but I'm beginning to wonder if a speaker amp would be better still? "



This is the concern I have with the HE-6. Forget the fact of having to buy what would essentially be a dedicated amp strictly for the HE-6, I just don't have any more space. The B22 is rated at 18 watts at 8 Ohms. It drives the HE-5LE just fine but still needs as much power the amp has to give it. The prototypes NEEDED a speaker amp. Even if the production HE-6 is more efficient, to what end are they? If they still require a speaker amp, (and from what I've read they still do) what difference did it make? I'm hearing numbers like 100 watt amps. Is this efficient? If the HE-6 could be driven to it's full potential with my amp I'd seriously contemplate it.

 

[Pyriel0]

People are just freaking out. One person says something and its like scaring an animal and watching a stampede start.
 
The HE6 takes about 1/4 the voltage of a k1k and a little more than half the current. Its 1/8 the power needed to drive a k1k.
 
 
K1000 101 db  512mW 120 ohm 7.84V 65mA
HE6   101.5db 64mW  50 ohm  1.79V 36mA
 
k1000 110 db  4.1W 120 ohm 22.2V 185mA
HE6   110.5db 512mW 50 ohm 5.06V 101mA
 
I would hope the sensitivity is given in rms. If that is the case, you would multiply the voltage by 1.414 to get the peak value. For 110.5 db it comes out to about 7.2 volts, which bumps the current to 144mA and power to 1.03W.  Thats still not even 4 watts into 8 ohms on an amp.

 

[beepbeep]

i like these...looks like worth the money i would put into for my listening pleasures..

 

[grokit]

Quote:

The HE6 in no way requires 100watts of power!!   My small Virtue at 40wpc can power them to a level far greater than I would ever listen to. 
Yes, the use of a speaker amp does make a huge difference in the performance of this phone.  If space is a consideration another amp that is reasonably priced and very small that will also power them effortlessly is the Winsome Labs Mouse.
 
Quote:

Quote:Originally Posted by MacedonianHero

"It would seem that a full speaker amp is ideal for these headphones. I'm sure the B22 could handle them, but I'm beginning to wonder if a speaker amp would be better still? "
This is the concern I have with the HE-6. Forget the fact of having to buy what would essentially be a dedicated amp strictly for the HE-6, I just don't have any more space. The B22 is rated at 18 watts at 8 Ohms. It drives the HE-5LE just fine but still needs as much power the amp has to give it. The prototypes NEEDED a speaker amp. Even if the production HE-6 is more efficient, to what end are they? If they still require a speaker amp, (and from what I've read they still do) what difference did it make? I'm hearing numbers like 100 watt amps. Is this efficient? If the HE-6 could be driven to it's full potential with my amp I'd seriously contemplate it.

 
 
I agree that a 40 wpc speaker amp would be adequate, my 50 wpc was more than enough with the protos -- the HE-6 sounded great around 11 am. But if the Winsome is a T-amp then it won't be near as good, I tried a 20 wpc Cityspot T-amp with the protos and it was a fail -- it distorted/clipped when I would try for high volume. The 45 wpc Parasound's Zamp v.3 that I mentioned earlier is pretty compact, and I wonder how Nuforce's Icon speaker amp would fare for about half the price as it's rated at 24 wpc; edit -- probably not very well.

 

[Zoide]

If only a solid state EF6 would come out soon... 

 

[Zoide]

Does anyone know if the Pioneer A-35R speaker amplifier would drive the HE-6 well?
 
Here are the specs:
 
 

1. 45W x 2, 20-20k @ 8 ohm 65W x 2, 20-20k @ 4 ohm
2. 4 ohm Stable (Low-Impedance Driving Capacity)

 
(http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/AV-Receivers/EliteAmplifiers/A-35R?tab=B)
 
Thanks

 

[baka1969]

Quote:Originally Posted by grokit "I agree that a 40 wpc speaker amp would be adequate, my 50 wpc was more than enough with the protos -- the HE-6 sounded great around 11 am. But if the Winsome is a T-amp then it won't be near as good, I tried a 20 wpc Cityspot T-amp with the protos and it was a fail -- it distorted/clipped when I would try for high volume. The 45 wpc Parasound's Zamp v.3 that I mentioned earlier is pretty compact, and I wonder how Nuforce's Icon speaker amp would fare for about half the price as it's rated at 24 wpc."


I didn't state it required 100 watts. I was just commenting what I was reading about amps used. I also agree that a 40 watt amp would be enough as that's what I used on the prototype. I don't have that amp anymore. That said, I'm not sure I'd be satisfied with an inexpensive amp that may not make them sound their absolute best. We Head-Fi'ers agonize over which amps to get that pair well with our precious headphones. I doubt a cheap amp is going to make the HE-6 sound world class. Isn't the point of this hobby to make our gear sound as close to perfection as possible? Aren't there endless threads as to which amp works best with what headphone? So I'm to believe that after spending decent money on the HE-6 that is supposed to compete with the top-tier headphones, that the solution is either a full sized amp or a cheap compact speaker amp? When I had the prototype HE-6 I said it deserved to be mentioned in the same league as the other top offerings. I (as well as many others) also said one of it's drawbacks was it's need for lots of power that made is less versatile than some other headphones. Fang attempts to address this issue by making it more efficient. But still requiring a speaker amp for best results. And that's what I'd want BEST results not almost best results or adequate sound. I'm sure that the HE-6 sounds amazing. If I was assured that my amp would properly drive it to it's full potential I would be quite interested. Having a separate large amp just for the HE-6 isn't practical for me. It's easier to find a space for a headphone than it is for an amp. LoL I also have a similar issue with a Stax system. The O2, for example, requires a dedicated system. But that's another thread. LoL

 

[jamato8]

With the talk about watts I find it interesting that some 5 watt amps do fine and some amps with over 30 clipping. Watts are watts and if a T amp or other type of solid state or a tube amp, while current and voltage all factor into this and tube amps are more of a voltage source and SS more current capable, I would think most of the higher output amps would drive these phones. Now the quality of the sound is another thing since amps are all over the place in that area. Having 40 watts or 1000 won't mean a thing if the amp isn't quality to begin with and that quality can rack up the dollars. 

 

[HiFlight]

 
 
When I owned the Winsome Labs Mouse (T-amp, 40wpc) it drove my K1000's effortlessly.  Never did I hear any trace of clipping.   As with other amplifiers, not all T-amps are created equally.  FWIW, the Red Wine Audio Signature 30.2 is also a "T" amp and I have not heard it criticized for lack of quality, either in build or SQ.  
 
I do not tolerate degraded performance, especially with phones such as HE6 and K1000, but do find small, high-quality T-amps to be extremely capable performers.  It is not necessary to spend huge amounts of money or sacrifice desk space to a large speaker amp to fully enjoy the capabilities of these phones.  
 
As all of my  phones are now balanced, I am using my Virtue to power all of them.  I do not feel that in any way is the full potential of these phones compromised by the use of this small but capable speaker amp.  It is certainly not the only amplifier choice that I could have made, but ultimately one with which I am completely satisfied.   
 
Although I don't consider myself as the ultimate authority on amplifier selection, I do feel that I have been around long enough to be able to tell the difference between the good and not-so-good.  YMMV!!
 
 
Quote:

Quote:

The HE6 in no way requires 100watts of power!! My small Virtue at 40wpc can power them to a level far greater than I would ever listen to.
Yes, the use of a speaker amp does make a huge difference in the performance of this phone. If space is a consideration another amp that is reasonably priced and very small that will also power them effortlessly is the Winsome Labs Mouse.
 
Quote:

Quote:Originally Posted by MacedonianHero

"It would seem that a full speaker amp is ideal for these headphones. I'm sure the B22 could handle them, but I'm beginning to wonder if a speaker amp would be better still? "
This is the concern I have with the HE-6. Forget the fact of having to buy what would essentially be a dedicated amp strictly for the HE-6, I just don't have any more space. The B22 is rated at 18 watts at 8 Ohms. It drives the HE-5LE just fine but still needs as much power the amp has to give it. The prototypes NEEDED a speaker amp. Even if the production HE-6 is more efficient, to what end are they? If they still require a speaker amp, (and from what I've read they still do) what difference did it make? I'm hearing numbers like 100 watt amps. Is this efficient? If the HE-6 could be driven to it's full potential with my amp I'd seriously contemplate it.

 
 
I agree that a 40 wpc speaker amp would be adequate, my 50 wpc was more than enough with the protos -- the HE-6 sounded great around 11 am. But if the Winsome is a T-amp then it won't be near as good, I tried a 20 wpc Cityspot T-amp with the protos and it was a fail -- it distorted/clipped when I would try for high volume. The 45 wpc Parasound's Zamp v.3 that I mentioned earlier is pretty compact, and I wonder how Nuforce's Icon speaker amp would fare for about half the price as it's rated at 24 wpc; edit -- probably not very well.

 

[Skylab]

The HE-6 don't need 100 watts, or 40 watts, or even 10 watts. That doesn't mean you can't use an amp that powerful - you can, and you're far more likely to make your ears bleed before damaging the HE-6. But let's not get carried away. The HE-6 need more than a few hundred milliwatts, which is all many if not most headphones actually need. But they can be driven easily by amps delivering 2-3 watts.

 

[rhythmdevils]

When I used the prototypes (less efficient) with a 125 Watt amplifier, I could only use the first 5% (or something like that) of the volume.