[NZtechfreak]

Same songs and same DAC.

This is important, change only one variable at a time. This is what I liked about my listening test this evening, same song and DAC, I felt like it gave me a very clear indication of the respective merits of the headphones was listening too (although I was of course changing two variables since the amp was different between HE-6 and the other headphones) .

 

[ALRAINBOW]

Absolutely I cannot understand how people do it any other way. Unless you are a pro reviewer
I cannot be so sure. But I can be in my way.

 

[brunk]

  Those who got the Audeze (vegan / micro suede or lambskin) pads, please chime in ... !
 
I plan ordering the Audeze "vegan" pads on monday, but would like to hear if there is some consensus regarding how it sounds compared to stock HiFiMan pads (pleather or velour).
 
I remember one saying the sub bass was more audible and other(s) saying soundstage being bigger.
 
Also, if anyone has tried both the lambskin AND the micro suede pads, please state your impressions of the two.

I have the pads. The soundstage is more of a "USA football" shape now vs. a left/right line going through your head. This basically means there is greater center imaging, that is pushed out just in front of your eyes. I think there is just an ever so slight increase in bass output, and a similar decrease in treble, and mids are unchanged. The only thing I'm noticing right now is that i have lost a touch of micro-detail vs. the hifiman velours. However, I haven't done the felt mod yet, so hopefully it will come back. My "transparency reference" is the HD-800, which helps keep me in check with my gear and mods. I would go crazy without it LMAO. It's basically an expensive tool to me That might change though when I get "The Wire" amp for it!
 
EDIT: My reasoning behind the loss of detail is because my ear is further away from the driver, resulting in much more reflections off the magnet bars than the stock pads, so I do think the felt mod will alleviate this issue.

 

[LarsHP]

Thanks brunk.
I wonder how the lambskin pads does compared to vegan pads. I read a thread about it, and peoples opinions were varying quite a bit regarding sound, but it seems they agree that the vegan are more comfortable for longer periods.

 

[ohhgourami]

Interesting observation from me in regards to amount of power from amps for the HE-6. If I run my HE-6 straight from the speaker taps, I'll get ~30wpc. I'm currently using a 100ohm and 3ohm resistor in series and parallel which gives me a -30dB attenuation and cuts down my power to 0.17wpc. A thread got me all paranoid so I started switching resistors around to see what differences I got in SQ. Guess what I found out? It makes NO difference!
 
Chatting with Armaegis about this, we concluded that the amount of power the HE-6 receives doesn't make too much of a difference, but it's how well the amp can produce that power. Most headphone amps struggle since it's power supply cannot consistently put out so much power, while speaker amps can do this with ease. The other theory we have is how cleanly an amp can produce that power should matter a lot too. Everything here is related though.

 

[M-13]

  Interesting observation from me in regards to amount of power from amps for the HE-6. If I run my HE-6 straight from the speaker taps, I'll get ~30wpc. I'm currently using a 100ohm and 3ohm resistor in series and parallel which gives me a -30dB attenuation and cuts down my power to 0.17wpc. A thread got me all paranoid so I started switching resistors around to see what differences I got in SQ. Guess what I found out? It makes NO difference!
 
Chatting with Armaegis about this, we concluded that the amount of power the HE-6 receives doesn't make too much of a difference, but it's how well the amp can produce that power. Most headphone amps struggle since it's power supply cannot consistently put out so much power, while speaker amps can do this with ease. The other theory we have is how cleanly an amp can produce that power should matter a lot too. Everything here is related though.

Interesting experiment. I think you're getting very close to the truth of the matter. I think a simplified version of this would be to say the HE-6 needs an amp with a nice quality beefy transformer, but the actual gain delivered can be quite small.

 

[potterma]

  Interesting observation from me in regards to amount of power from amps for the HE-6. If I run my HE-6 straight from the speaker taps, I'll get ~30wpc. I'm currently using a 100ohm and 3ohm resistor in series and parallel which gives me a -30dB attenuation and cuts down my power to 0.17wpc. A thread got me all paranoid so I started switching resistors around to see what differences I got in SQ. Guess what I found out? It makes NO difference!
 
Chatting with Armaegis about this, we concluded that the amount of power the HE-6 receives doesn't make too much of a difference, but it's how well the amp can produce that power. Most headphone amps struggle since it's power supply cannot consistently put out so much power, while speaker amps can do this with ease. The other theory we have is how cleanly an amp can produce that power should matter a lot too. Everything here is related though.

This is very amplifier dependent.  As long as your amplifier can output the voltage required across the headphones (which implies current delivery, as well) they will still be driven properly, despite the attenuation.  Once the voltage divider reaches the point where the amplifier runs into clipping, well, you're clipping and its VERY noticeable.
 
If you know the maximum peak voltage at which your amplifier goes into clipping, and you know how much peak voltage you require to the headphones, you can calculate exactly how much attenuation your system can tolerate and keep the amp out of clipping.
 
There is another amplifier dependent effect that may be encountered.  Many (most? all?) amplifiers exhibit larger distortion at higher signal levels.  So, depending on the amplifier, as you increase the voltage and current output requirement due to external attenuation, the greater the distortion between the input and output signals.  This may not be noticeable until the distortion get really bad.

 

[Clemmaster]

Interesting experiment. I think you're getting very close to the truth of the matter. I think a simplified version of this would be to say the HE-6 needs an amp with a nice quality beefy transformer, but the actual gain delivered can be quite small.

This.
Power was never the issue for me. Current delivery capacity was. Case in point, the 10Wpc SA-31 cannot compare to the 5Wpc EF-6 with the HE-6.
I listen to quite low volume (peaks at 85dB max with an average of 75-80dB) but dynamics were lacking on the audio-gd. Only the 6s were lacking. All the other hifimans were fine, even the 4s.

 

[LarsHP]

ohhgourami, thanks for posting your findings!
 
Your findings correlate with mine - but based on a different path: my HM-901 and HM-801 with built in balanced amplifier cards versus my Master 6 amp (7W in 50 Ohm) and speaker amp (8W in 50 Ohm).
 
I think it is also important to take into account the SPL people are listening at. I just measured my normal SPL level. It's around 70dB. At that level HE-6 need much less than 1 milliwatt on average. Peaks will of course need higher output, but still far from several watts.

 

[ALRAINBOW]

That is interesting to hear. As kingwa,s amps can go way higher than he sets them to. As I am sure you are aware I have increased the gain on the ref 10. It does not clip but I can listen to low sounding recordings now. I do agree it is amp related but I do not have it completely figured out either. Look at the rating of the woo WA 5. It is low at 50 ohms and I can say it is loud at 11 on the dial louder than I can listen to. And I am not a quiet listen type of guy. As I can listen at low volumes and enjoy , but I need much more when I am evaluating a dac or headphone.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

 

[LarsHP]

Maybe the real difference is in the slew rate of the amp: How fast it is?

 

[ALRAINBOW]

Is the slew rate higher in a tube amp ?

 

[Armaegis]

Slew rate doesn't need to be that fast. Super high rates can be detrimental anyways.

 

[LarsHP]

Don't know. It varies quite a bit with solid state amps, so this might be the case with tube amps too.

 

[LarsHP]

And approximately where does a high slew rate begin to be over the top?