[Sonic Defender]

Hi M, I agree that the 339 is a great amp with HD800, HD700, T1gen1 and DT990 but I really didn't care for it when paired with any planar headphones that I tried with them which included the HE560, LCD-3f, LCD-X and HE400i. I think the output impedance of the 339 is just a bit too high for most planar headphones but since I only tried the 4 listed I could be mistaken

Hello back, interesting, well at least one person has used the 339 with the HE560, sadly I never did. I totally get that it didn't work for you, but it would most likely have to be due to preferences as unless I am misunderstanding this, with a typical planar, the impedance response being fairly flat the higher output impedance should not really make too much of a difference. I did listen to a 16ohm closed dynamic headphone with the 339, an Onkyo H900M, and for sure the bass became muddy and lost some control and that was clearly due to the mismatch, but you would expect that with a dynamic driver if I am not mistaken.

Regardless, as always the community is lucky for your experience as I'll bet few members at head-fi would have heard that combination. Cheers.

 

[DavidA]

Hello back, interesting, well at least one person has used the 339 with the HE560, sadly I never did. I totally get that it didn't work for you, but it would most likely have to be due to preferences as unless I am misunderstanding this, with a typical planar, the impedance response being fairly flat the higher output impedance should not really make too much of a difference. I did listen to a 16ohm closed dynamic headphone with the 339, an Onkyo H900M, and for sure the bass became muddy and lost some control and that was clearly due to the mismatch, but you would expect that with a dynamic driver if I am not mistaken.

Regardless, as always the community is lucky for your experience as I'll bet few members at head-fi would have heard that combination. Cheers.

I've found that the output impedance of an amp has some influence in how a headphone would pair with it and one way that I've found can vary widely is with my Project Ember since I can change the output impedance on the fly so its easy to hear changes in the sound due to the output impedance changes. The 339 being an OTL amp probably has an output impedance in the 75-120ohm range (I couldn't find the exact number on the 339) and it will probably vary depending on the power tubes used, similar to a BH Crack where the power tubes influence the output impedance. With that said the HE560 sounded best to me with the output impedance of the Ember set to 35ohms (mid setting) which is in line with the reason I like my HE560 out of the headphone jack of my Teac UD301 which has an output impedance of 10ohm or my Lyr2 at high gain (1.5ohms). IIRC the 339 that I borrowed from a friend only had the stock tubes so I'd guess that the output impedance was probably 120 since that is what most 6AS7 tube are. I didn't try my TS5998 tubes which would probably lower the output impedance to 75ohms, might have been a better pairing between the HE560 and 339.

 

[raoultrifan]

@DavidA, I guess the correct output impedance would be 0.1 Ohms and not 35 not 120. Basically, as a general rule, the amp should have the output impedance <=1/8 of headphones impedance, to achieve the most accurate sound. Although some say that using the 120 Ohms output impedance might sound more pleasant and melodious.

 

[DavidA]

@DavidA, I guess the correct output impedance would be 0.1 Ohms and not 35 not 120. Basically, as a general rule, the amp should have the output impedance <=1/8 of headphones impedance, to achieve the most accurate sound. Although some say that using the 120 Ohms output impedance might sound more pleasant and melodious.

I liked the mid setting on the Ember which is 35ohms with the HE560 and its like you noted, a bit more pleasant and melodious. If I use the 0.1ohm setting the treble gets a bit sharper / harsher with some tracks and while the 1/8 rule is a good starting point not all headphones seem to follow the rule from my limited experience so far.

 

[lhydavid]

Does any one here own both the he560 and lcd xc? How would you compare the 2? I am hoping to hear your impressions to compare with my own. Thanks!

 

[DavidA]

Does any one here own both the he560 and lcd xc? How would you compare the 2? I am hoping to hear your impressions to compare with my own. Thanks!

I'm a bit curious as to why you world want to compare the sound from a open (HE560) and closed (LCD-XC)? Just by their construction they would sound different but to get you some idea I have compared my HE560 with a friends LCD-X and they are quite different. HE560 is a bit more lively, dynamic, in your face while the LCD-X is more laid back, smoother in the mids and goes lower but its bass is not as clean as my HE560 IMO so its a preference as to which you would like. I'd say they make pretty good complimentary headphones since they are quite different but for me while I keep my LCD-2F it doesn't get much use since its a bit too heavy for long listening sessions and my HE560 seems to get little head time also these days since during the summer here in Hawaii its quite humid and my ears start to sweat with most over ear headphones with the exception of Grado G-pads which breath enough to keep my ears from sweating and they are also very light, easy to drive and sound great from almost any source.

 

[lhydavid]

I'm a bit curious as to why you world want to compare the sound from a open (HE560) and closed (LCD-XC)? Just by their construction they would sound different but to get you some idea I have compared my HE560 with a friends LCD-X and they are quite different. HE560 is a bit more lively, dynamic, in your face while the LCD-X is more laid back, smoother in the mids and goes lower but its bass is not as clean as my HE560 IMO so its a preference as to which you would like. I'd say they make pretty good complimentary headphones since they are quite different but for me while I keep my LCD-2F it doesn't get much use since its a bit too heavy for long listening sessions and my HE560 seems to get little head time also these days since during the summer here in Hawaii its quite humid and my ears start to sweat with most over ear headphones with the exception of Grado G-pads which breath enough to keep my ears from sweating and they are also very light, easy to drive and sound great from almost any source.

Thanks! Your impressions are interesting.
I'm currently using both headphones through the RME ADI-2 DAC to a V280 via balanced. The LCD-XC has a balanced connection while the HE-560 is using the single ended one while I wait on a balanced one to drive them more adequately. I think the HE560 will sound more dynamic once I have the balanced cable to be honest. At the present moment, my own impressions are that the HE560 sounds flatter except for some occasional peakiness in certain tracks that I listen to, which it is also known for around the 9k to 10k hz frequency range. I knock about 3db off this range and everything is fine and I can listen for hours regardless of track. I find it's presentation more to the polite or "softer" side of things. It's quite apparent to me when switching between the LCD XC and the HE560 on the same songs. The LCD-XC seems more coloured and according to the FR curves, has a sort of "W" shape, but it's coloured in an appealing way for me. Between the 2, I find the XC has a fuller note, warmer/enhanced though exciting bass that has a longer decay, slightly drier but more distinct mids and a sort of clarity that is more apparent. It's resolution seems sharper and layering sounds better. Though slightly dark sounding, it's punchy, dynamic and energetic. The XC by the way is the latest creator's edition. The HE560 by comparison feels like a gentleman beside the more "athletic-sounding" XC. It's bass also hits well and goes deep, but its decay sounds shorter as in by the time I get to the perceive the note, it's almost gone. The bass also feels more neutral to me and being an open back, it does sound airy, though it's interesting that the XC doesn't sound that much more closed-in even though it is not an open back. HE-560 seems to have a softer and more polite attack compared with the XC. Another thing I noted in my listening impressions are that the HE560 deliver a more defined instrument separation through slightly thinner note production compared with the LCD-XC. Listening to string quartets, I find the HE560 to produce a "sweeter" timbre which I prefer compared to the XC. The "sweetness" is akin to the sound coming off a violin that is made from well-aged wood, with a very seasoned sound with richer overtones/harmonics, compared with that of a violin made from younger wood that still has room to age from the XC, that sounds slightly more "shouty" at times, slightly hollow, though still with a believable timbre. Personally, I also find vocals in this range, typically the airy/female type to be more realistic on the HE560 than the XC. The XC though it excites my auditory senses, does get slightly fatiguing after a few hours. So for the moment, I'm using the HE-560 more for classical generally, whereas the XC for other modern genres.

 

[DavidA]

Thanks! Your impressions are interesting.
I'm currently using both headphones through the RME ADI-2 DAC to a V280 via balanced. The LCD-XC has a balanced connection while the HE-560 is using the single ended one while I wait on a balanced one to drive them more adequately. I think the HE560 will sound more dynamic once I have the balanced cable to be honest. At the present moment, my own impressions are that the HE560 sounds flatter except for some occasional peakiness in certain tracks that I listen to, which it is also known for around the 9k to 10k hz frequency range. I knock about 3db off this range and everything is fine and I can listen for hours regardless of track. I find it's presentation more to the polite or "softer" side of things. It's quite apparent to me when switching between the LCD XC and the HE560 on the same songs. The LCD-XC seems more coloured and according to the FR curves, has a sort of "W" shape, but it's coloured in an appealing way for me. Between the 2, I find the XC has a fuller note, warmer/enhanced though exciting bass that has a longer decay, slightly drier but more distinct mids and a sort of clarity that is more apparent. It's resolution seems sharper and layering sounds better. Though slightly dark sounding, it's punchy, dynamic and energetic. The XC by the way is the latest creator's edition. The HE560 by comparison feels like a gentleman beside the more "athletic-sounding" XC. It's bass also hits well and goes deep, but its decay sounds shorter as in by the time I get to the perceive the note, it's almost gone. The bass also feels more neutral to me and being an open back, it does sound airy, though it's interesting that the XC doesn't sound that much more closed-in even though it is not an open back. HE-560 seems to have a softer and more polite attack compared with the XC. Another thing I noted in my listening impressions are that the HE560 deliver a more defined instrument separation through slightly thinner note production compared with the LCD-XC. Listening to string quartets, I find the HE560 to produce a "sweeter" timbre which I prefer compared to the XC. The "sweetness" is akin to the sound coming off a violin that is made from well-aged wood, with a very seasoned sound with richer overtones/harmonics, compared with that of a violin made from younger wood that still has room to age from the XC, that sounds slightly more "shouty" at times, slightly hollow, though still with a believable timbre. Personally, I also find vocals in this range, typically the airy/female type to be more realistic on the HE560 than the XC. The XC though it excites my auditory senses, does get slightly fatiguing after a few hours. So for the moment, I'm using the HE-560 more for classical generally, whereas the XC for other modern genres.

As I noted I haven't listened to the closed LCD-XC but the open LCD-X which I would think sound quite different. Another thing to note is my HE560 is an older SMC version with grill mod so unless your HE560 is the same version any comparison to what we are hearing can't really be compared.

 

[lhydavid]

As I noted I haven't listened to the closed LCD-XC but the open LCD-X which I would think sound quite different. Another thing to note is my HE560 is an older SMC version with grill mod so unless your HE560 is the same version any comparison to what we are hearing can't really be compared.

Mine is also the older SMC version with the threaded headphone connections and if memory serves me right, it's a v1, but unmodded though. I was more interested to hear what other owners of both these headphones thought about them rather than a direct comparison. So no worries about that . Everyone's audio chain/set-up is kinda different and that changes things quite a fair bit. Thanks though for sharing yours! Are you using the HE-560 via a balanced amp? What sort of changes should I expect going from single ended to balanced? Also, how did the grille mod change the phones for you?

 

[DavidA]

Mine is also the older SMC version with the threaded headphone connections and if memory serves me right, it's a v1, but unmodded though. I was more interested to hear what other owners of both these headphones thought about them rather than a direct comparison. So no worries about that . Everyone's audio chain/set-up is kinda different and that changes things quite a fair bit. Thanks though for sharing yours! Are you using the HE-560 via a balanced amp? What sort of changes should I expect going from single ended to balanced? Also, how did the grille mod change the phones for you?

Cool, I take it that you use either headphone for different situations, different genres, something different? While I've heard my HD560 balanced on a few amps like Liquid Glass, MHA-100, DarkStar, Jot and EC Balancing Act I really didn't notice much of a difference except on the Jot, the better amps seem to have very good sound from either the SE or balanced output while the Jot was a bit better from the balanced output I've found that most decent amps that are only SE are quite good while cheaper to mid level amps that have both SE and balanced output tend to sound better from the balanced connection and high end amp tend to sound the same from either.
The grill mod on my HE560 gave them a bit better soundstage/imaging, got rid/reduced some annoying ringing in the treble and ever so slightly reduced the mids to get them more in line with the highs and lows.

 

[lhydavid]

Cool, I take it that you use either headphone for different situations, different genres, something different? While I've heard my HD560 balanced on a few amps like Liquid Glass, MHA-100, DarkStar, Jot and EC Balancing Act I really didn't notice much of a difference except on the Jot, the better amps seem to have very good sound from either the SE or balanced output while the Jot was a bit better from the balanced output I've found that most decent amps that are only SE are quite good while cheaper to mid level amps that have both SE and balanced output tend to sound better from the balanced connection and high end amp tend to sound the same from either.
The grill mod on my HE560 gave them a bit better soundstage/imaging, got rid/reduced some annoying ringing in the treble and ever so slightly reduced the mids to get them more in line with the highs and lows.

Yup!
I tend to use the HE560 more for classical or times when I just want to chill.
Mine is unmodded though. I had a read at the 4 mod procedures and while the improvements appeal to me, I'm not sure I have the abilities to do them on my own. May be when I get a HE1000SE and decide to use my HE560 for experiments.... just saying...
Prior to having the ADI-2 and V280, I've been using the HE560 out of the RSA F-35, as a portable with a balanced connection and have had pretty decent results.
I do hear differences though, going from the F-35, to the single ended on the ADI-2 and then to the single ended on the V280, though the improvements from ADI-2 to V280 are smaller than going up from the F-35.

Hmm... may be I should try to find out who has a modded HE560 around my area so I can test it out.
Thanks for your impressions though.
Appreciate them!

 

[phthora]

As I noted I haven't listened to the closed LCD-XC but the open LCD-X which I would think sound quite different. Another thing to note is my HE560 is an older SMC version with grill mod so unless your HE560 is the same version any comparison to what we are hearing can't really be compared.

According to this article, the post-2016 XC has been tuned to be "indistinguishable" from the X. I find it hard to believe that a closed headphone could have all the sonic qualities of an open version, but I think it's safe to consider them relatively interchangeable when it comes to reviews and impressions. @lhydavid 's comparison of the XC/560 seems very close to my impressions of the X/560, anyway.

 

[lhydavid]

According to this article, the post-2016 XC has been tuned to be "indistinguishable" from the X. I find it hard to believe that a closed headphone could have all the sonic qualities of an open version, but I think it's safe to consider them relatively interchangeable when it comes to reviews and impressions. @lhydavid 's comparison of the XC/560 seems very close to my impressions of the X/560, anyway.

Now that was an article I didn't come across before I bought the XC.
Thanks for that!
Good to hear from the man himself!

 

[DavidA]

According to this article, the post-2016 XC has been tuned to be "indistinguishable" from the X. I find it hard to believe that a closed headphone could have all the sonic qualities of an open version, but I think it's safe to consider them relatively interchangeable when it comes to reviews and impressions. @lhydavid 's comparison of the XC/560 seems very close to my impressions of the X/560, anyway.

I knew about the LCD-2, LCD-3 and EL-8 having changes end of 2015 / early 2016 but I didn't know that it was also with the LCD-X and LCD-XC. I checked with my friend and the LCD-X that I listened to is from mid 2015, so I'm incline to believe that these don't quite sound like the LCD-XC at this point.

Yup!
I tend to use the HE560 more for classical or times when I just want to chill.
Mine is unmodded though. I had a read at the 4 mod procedures and while the improvements appeal to me, I'm not sure I have the abilities to do them on my own. May be when I get a HE1000SE and decide to use my HE560 for experiments.... just saying...
Prior to having the ADI-2 and V280, I've been using the HE560 out of the RSA F-35, as a portable with a balanced connection and have had pretty decent results.
I do hear differences though, going from the F-35, to the single ended on the ADI-2 and then to the single ended on the V280, though the improvements from ADI-2 to V280 are smaller than going up from the F-35.

Hmm... may be I should try to find out who has a modded HE560 around my area so I can test it out.
Thanks for your impressions though.
Appreciate them!

For classical I still like my HD800, but it needs to be well recorded since the HD800 is not forgiving. Another that I like for classical is the older T1gen1 but like the HD800 these are a bit amp picky from my experiences so far. FWIW I also used to have a SR009/SRM007mk2 combo and it was about as good as it gets for well recorded/mastered classical, jazz and blues but really lacking for other genres that I like to listen to.

 

[Daveed84]

My HE-560s are on their last legs and I'm looking for a suitable replacement (not necessarily an "upgrade", just something similar). I love my HE-560s dearly, and with a little bit of EQing for increased bass, I think they're the perfect sounding headphones. Unfortunately the build quality is probably the worst I've ever experienced with a pair of headphones, and I've had to replace almost every part, sometimes multiple times. I've replaced the cable, the headband, and the earpads, and now the audio jack on the left ear cup is starting to die. The HE-560s are apparently discontinued and Hifiman said I should order a replacement pair soon if I intend to do so, because they are low on stock. I think I've spent close to $350 on parts alone, and a replacement pair would run me almost another $200.

So what I'm really looking for is a pair of headphones that sounds similar, with the same amount of clarity and detail, and a slightly recessed/dry midrange. Are the higher end Hifiman headphones any better, in terms of build quality?