[StanD]

  I guess I'm being combative with you, but I think it all has to do with how our brain perceives the entirety of what we hear. We may not hear a single tone at a specific frequency, but IMO those frequencies have to do with how we interpret things like stage, imaging, dynamics, timing, detail, tonal balance etc...
 
And no I don't have any studies to back this up (maybe there are some?) but I also don't think experiments on how one "hears" a certain sound are indicative of any real world experience. They are however indicative of that particular test environment, which in turn is a bias onto itself. 
 
A true "double blind" study to me would be sitting at home on my recliner without any knowledge that I'm being guinea pigged. And there are those times where I say, "hey wait a minute, is this the CD verison?" lo and behold...
 
Edit: I'm being a little too harsh in saying "any" real world experience. Sure we can draw correlations etc. But it ain't the boiling point of water (then again, where am I going to find a perfectly straight line in the natural world?). Theory needs application. 
 
Edit 2: Maybe not CD, but there is plenty of data above the human auditory range on highly sampled material....

I don't know what you are really trying to establish but human beings have constraints and ultrasonics is not in our hearing, hence the term ultrasonic. There's plenty of proper studies you can find that establish what we can and cannot hear. There's also a lot of conjecture that distracts and confuses many people. There really is no magic here. this is simple stuff. Certain anilmals can hear ultrasonics, like bats, however, we cannot.

 

[Textfeud]

Got a Hifiman HE560 since yesterday and I'm in awe. Great headphones! Using it with a Schiit Lyr 1, very good combo. 
 
The previous owner got rid of the foam between grill and drivers. Don't know why, but can that hurt? I know lot of owners of the HE500 did that grill mod, but never heard of the same mod for the HE560.

 

[Exacoustatowner]

Ad 2) I would specify that our senses don't adapt but how the data is interpreted by the brain. The eyes are sending the same information to the brain but the brain then compensates for the correct "white balance" for example so white things stay white even under different conditions when technically they are not white anymore. The eyes always see red as red but ask any eye witness and you get lots of varying answers as the brain (and memory) are playing their own music. Same with scents. We smell something and after a few minutes or so we can't smell it anymore. The scent is still there, our nose's receptors still receive it, but our brain decided we don't need to consciously smell it anymore as it considers it now "normal".

Same with hearing. I have headphone where depending on the amp the soundstage is rather large and defined so I can place instruments properly or smaller and blurred. What creates these spatial accuracy or not is not yet fully understood but a lot of companies are getting close to it. http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/dysonics-rappr-headphone-audio-virtualizer-and-rondomotion-head-tracker

Just yesterday I got my new K7XX and compared it to the HE-560 and I really liked how the HE-560 wraps the sound around me while the K7XX has a very large soundstage but further away and not as enveloping - for the lack of better words.....

How does StanD measure image localization and soundstage? Here is where specific tubes in my Lyr outperform my OppoBDP 105D or my Yamaha A/V. And I doubt distortion would let me place instruments more accurately! I have photos of the locations of the instruments in the orchestra I am hearing to supplement my faulty human memory. It's also not frequency response as I have a hi quality DEQ and such changes don't give me the same effect
Bear in mind my expectation bias was anti tube and pro SS.

 

[Sonic Defender]

  I don't know what you are really trying to establish but human beings have constraints and ultrasonics is not in our hearing, hence the term ultrasonic. There's plenty of proper studies you can find that establish what we can and cannot hear. There's also a lot of conjecture that distracts and confuses many people. There really is no magic here. this is simple stuff. Certain anilmals can hear ultrasonics, like bats, however, we cannot.

But what if our genome gets mixed up with that of the bat? Is there a chance then that we can hear ultrasonic frequencies? Bet you didn't think of that mister smarty pants

 It happened to Spiderman after all so it is possible.

 

[tvnosaint]

Batboy approved he560

 

[StanD]

How does StanD measure image localization and soundstage? Here is where specific tubes in my Lyr outperform my OppoBDP 105D or my Yamaha A/V. And I doubt distortion would let me place instruments more accurately! I have photos of the locations of the instruments in the orchestra I am hearing to supplement my faulty human memory. It's also not frequency response as I have a hi quality DEQ and such changes don't give me the same effect
Bear in mind my expectation bias was anti tube and pro SS.

I don't. Spacial cues are phase and delay related which is in the realm of headphones or speakers/rooms and the recorded material, not amps.

 

[Wildcatsare1]

I don't. Spacial cues are phase and delay related which is in the realm of headphones or speakers/rooms and the recorded material, not amps.

Stan, why do some amps soundstage better than others?

 

[doctorjazz]

I think this "all amps sound the same" discussion belongs on the "science" threads, along with the tiresome "all digital sounds the same" or "my MP3 is as good as your high resolution"...derails the threads, never possible to convince true believers (on either side) anyway, and it's tedious...
one of the Pono threads was almost closed by mods when this stuff wouldn't stop.

 

[DreamKing]

Something you should try out with your HE-560 if you haven't:
 
Just got done listening to Right Channel ID Test off Dr. Chesky's binaural show...This stuff is unbelievable. His breath could literally be felt in my ear at the end. Was kind of creepy actually but I hope binaural technology becomes a norm in the arts and entertainment industries. I had listened to binaural recordings long before but nothing as believable as that. It's a lot more convincing than a traditional multi-channel speaker setup.

 

[Exacoustatowner]

I don't. Spacial cues are phase and delay related which is in the realm of headphones or speakers/rooms and the recorded material, not amps.

Well then they should be equal between my SS amps and the tube hybrid.

 

[headwhacker]

  Got a Hifiman HE560 since yesterday and I'm in awe. Great headphones! Using it with a Schiit Lyr 1, very good combo. 
 
The previous owner got rid of the foam between grill and drivers. Don't know why, but can that hurt? I know lot of owners of the HE500 did that grill mod, but never heard of the same mod for the HE560.

No it does not hurt. There is an HE-560 mod thread and that is one of the easiest mod to do.

 

[Textfeud]

No it does not hurt. There is an HE-560 mod thread and that is one of the easiest mod to do.

Aah, that's good news. Thought maybe dust could damage the drivers.

 

[Wildcatsare1]

N

Aah, that's good news. Thought maybe dust could damage the drivers.

Next you need to do the grill mod, opens up the soundstage even more!

 

[Textfeud]

N
Next you need to do the grill mod, opens up the soundstage even more!

That is what the previous owner already did. Piece of foam on the outside of the cup at the grill. Will look at al the mods that can be done tomorrow

 

[DaemonSire]

I think this "all amps sound the same" discussion belongs on the "science" threads, along with the tiresome "all digital sounds the same" or "my MP3 is as good as your high resolution"...derails the threads, never possible to convince true believers (on either side) anyway, and it's tedious...
one of the Pono threads was almost closed by mods when this stuff wouldn't stop.

+1
I'm so tired of seeing these discussions.  Everyone has their opinions and no one ever moves.  Amps sound the same/different, Cables do/do not make a difference, digital is digital, yadda yadda yadda.
 
Take it to sound science or PMs and leave the rest of us out of it.  Any thread that gets large enough always descends into these debates at some point.