[conquerator2]

  lol agreed.
 
When i got the he400 i was busy checking the driver color to make sure i got one of the "good" ones. Then it was a pain to sell cause people wanted proof it wasn't one of the bad revs.
 
I hope I can be an early adopter of these with no regrets.

That's what we all want! Hence appreciating the extra time our doctor is putting into 'em 

 

[electropop]

I'm all for a fully finished product. I can see how people want to avoid the confusion and constant upgrading. I'm not going to buy this product based on the impressions here alone nor am in a hurry to even try these. 
 
I don't see how some see "better" as such a black and white thing. Let's put it like this, hypothetically: The mod was to improve sub-bass performance extension, but say it had a negative impact on the harmonic distortion figures and some time-domain characteristics. Which would everyone personally prioritize? I guess I've made it pretty obvious what I personally would. People fret over deep bass so much it could very well be the direction dr. Fang ended up going, even though some other qualities suffered (this would of course have to be very marginal) That would be the smart move, IF he were to follow the trend poised by this thread.
 
Anyone shouldn't need to get butt hurt over pure speculation, even though it comes from the mouth of an @hole like me. To be honest this can't really be even considered speculation, but pure trolling spiced with healthy skepticism. At the moment I'm not assuming anything; I don't have any experience in modding orthodynamics outside of browsing through some modding threads. Nor do I assume many in this thread have to the point where Jerg or some other big shot mod names are in skill.. I'm willing to give Jerg and Dr. Fang the benefit of the doubt. I'm just not willing to call the mod an improvement based on the premises at hand. What's so wrong with that?

 

[electropop]

 
Jerg makes pads that many note to improve the sound of the he400/500. Hifiman bases their new earpads on those, even thanks him with their finest amp.
 
No one here is treating Jerg like their god. It is simple to see that his input is valued by Hifiman and people on head-fi have been happy with his mods.
 
I can't really understand why people are getting mad over a (potential) sonic improvement implemented prior to release. how is that possibly a bad thing?
 
hifiman is not going to blindly use this fix if it doesn't help.
so what exactly is the issue?
 
most of us have been taking impressions from the multiple people who have the he560. jerg is not the final word.
 
i am personally planning on buying these and am glad that at least one potential revision/mod can be avoided.

 
1. See my previous post. Big emphasis on the word "possibly", because I can't assume anything yet. 
 
2. Those impressions obviously are of the current version without the "upgrade". All have been very highly praising of the product. What if some of those qualities suffered just because of moar bass? Jerg says they don't and I want to believe him. 

 

[davidsh]

I guess it's more likely that the bass will be cleaner when the diaphragm is porperly coupled to the cups so to speak.

Consider a speaker without chassis or any significant integral structure to fix the driver. As the diaphragm move, there will be a counter movement or force in the opposit direction, which will be more and more significant as the mass decreases.  Well, in that case the sound and especially the bass will have very high distortion. 

 

[smellyfungus]

extended bass =/= moar bass
 
I do agree that it would suck if the fix caused any issues but i highly doubt it's effects wouldn't be thoroughly tested by hifiman.
 
frank mentioned earlier he'll be getting a new unit to review, im sure the other reviewers will too. guess we'll have to wait til then.

 

[cute]

I sold off my T1 and HE-4 in anticipation of the promised release date, leaving me with just my Alpha Dogs and Beyer DT880.  Everything I heard from reviewers, other than one, had me convinced the HE-560 was the ideal headphone for me.  I had the 500 and the 6, and preferred the bigger soundstage and air, imaging/separation.  It was sounding like the 560 had that, and a very balanced sound.  Now one person that has the 500 and loves it, picks apart the design of the 560, and says it lacks sub bass, does a mod to his liking, and now leaving me for want.  I wouldn't buy the 560 if it sounded closer to the past models, 500, which I sold within a few days of purchase.  I just hoped they would leave the 560 the was they originally intended it.  Now this is all mute if they find other things they need to change before release, but if the delay is just due to the "sub bass modd thing", I would probably be looking elsewhere for my next headphone.  You've got the 500, if that is your preferred sound sig, but it's obviously not for everyone.  Why make the 560 closer to the 500 with moar sub bass?  Maybe I will just have to learn how to unmodd!!!!!

 

[Frank I]

I think if there is  an improvement on the current headphone that would be an added bonus. The HE560 sounds very good with the  pair I have here. If there is a subtle improvement it will be worth the wait and the HE560 would be a better buy than it already is. The good thing to note that there will be in this production run improvement. I appreciate Fangs honesty. Most manufactures would released the headphone and then made the  adjustment in their next batch. Fang has always listened to this community and designed headphones based on what he thought would be beneficial and improve his product.  If the modification in his mind and after running test was not an improvement it would not get implemented.  How many other manufactures do that? He is one of us and always tries to give us the best value for the money and  product we would want to own.
 
I think everyone should wait on final judgement and listen to the final product and then make a determination if theHE560 is or is not for them.  

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

I sold off my T1 and HE-4 in anticipation of the promised release date, leaving me with just my Alpha Dogs and Beyer DT880.  Everything I heard from reviewers, other than one, had me convinced the HE-560 was the ideal headphone for me.  I had the 500 and the 6, and preferred the bigger soundstage and air, imaging/separation.  It was sounding like the 560 had that, and a very balanced sound.  Now one person that has the 500 and loves it, picks apart the design of the 560, and says it lacks sub bass, does a mod to his liking, and now leaving me for want.  I wouldn't buy the 560 if it sounded closer to the past models, 500, which I sold within a few days of purchase.  I just hoped they would leave the 560 the was they originally intended it.  Now this is all mute if they find other things they need to change before release, but if the delay is just due to the "sub bass modd thing", I would probably be looking elsewhere for my next headphone.  You've got the 500, if that is your preferred sound sig, but it's obviously not for everyone.  Why make the 560 closer to the 500 with moar sub bass?  Maybe I will just have to learn how to unmodd!!!!!

I'm pretty sure you're making it a big deal out of nothing, and the sub bass fix is probably subtle and not a tonal shift in balance like you make it sound. All planars I've seen from HFM seem to have a very linear bass down to the sub bass. That includes the airier ones like the HE-4. The fix may be just making the curve more linear, instead of a slight drop off that may be present. I don't see the slight added sub bass to hamper the airiness. Airiness is tied to the treble, and bass bloat. The less treble, the less air that will be perceived. The more bass bloat, the more congested.

Seriously, it's not a big deal, if it's only sub bass.

 

[cute]

I agree with both of the previous posts, @Mad Lust Envy and @Frank I,  thank you both!  What I didn't care for was the fact that a modder thinks he knows more than the design group.  He should have kept his finding between Hifiman and himself, instead of making it public to the whole world (forum).  That just appears to be sheer arrogance to me, and it has left a bad taste in my mouth.  It has had this whole thread talking mostly about "MOAR SUB BASS", and not enough about the rest of the qualities of this headphone!  What I like about the Oppo approach with reviewers makes sense, they were not allowed to make comments to the prospective buyers until Oppo gave them permission?  If the review units are given to benefit the product, there is really no reason for anyone else to know details until the final retail unit is ready for release!

 

[jerg]

  I agree with both of the previous posts, @Mad Lust Envy and @Frank I,  thank you both!  What I didn't care for was the fact that a modder thinks he knows more than the design group.  He should have kept his finding between Hifiman and himself, instead of making it public to the whole world (forum).  That just appears to be sheer arrogance to me, and it has left a bad taste in my mouth.  It has had this whole thread talking mostly about "MOAR SUB BASS", and not enough about the rest of the qualities of this headphone!  What I like about the Oppo approach with reviewers makes sense, they were not allowed to make comments to the prospective buyers until Oppo gave them permission?  If the review units are given to benefit the product, there is really no reason for anyone else to know details until the final retail unit is ready for release!

Initially I wanted to just make a mod thread (kinda like my other mods) documenting the baffle tweak, no plans to suggest to Hifiman at all. But then everyone peer-pressured me into telling Fang about it and one thing led to another.
 
If you don't believe me, you can check back to the earlier posts in this thread where I had just started talking about the baffles, and peoples' reactions.
 
If that's arrogance then lol.

 

[zxc]

People are upset because they think they would have preferred a headphone that they haven't heard over its modded version that they haven't heard? Did I just read that?
 
 

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Well Jerg is well known for modding and improving HFM headphones. It's in the best interest for us for him to continue modding and improving what may be things that were missed. He's done it with the HE-400 (which needed a LOT of tweaking in the upper miods and treble), as well as the HE-500.

This can only improve upon great headphones, though it may not be NECESSARY at times.

He found something that could be improved, and tweaked it. Is it necessary? No. But at least the option is there. If HFM is paying attention and using this 'fix', then that means that they see it as something that is beneficial to their already great headphone.

I admit, I'd have been a little irked if I had received that HE560, and the next batch already had a revision/improvement. So it's a good thing it was found early.

As far as I can tell, that's the only thing worth tweaking at a production level. The grill mod is too subtle (from what I personally heard myself), and not something that is essential, which is probably why HFM isn't replacing it Leave that one to modders, not production..

My only real complaint is that the headphone has just arrived, and modding has become the main discussion. The HE560 should be the focus, not the modding of it. Lots of us won't mod our headphones, and want to know about the headphone's inherent strengths and flaws, character, etc. There really should just be a modding thread.

 

[conquerator2]

I agree with both of the previous posts, @Mad Lust Envy
 and @Frank I
,  thank you both!  What I didn't care for was the fact that a modder thinks he knows more than the design group.  He should have kept his finding between Hifiman and himself, instead of making it public to the whole world (forum).  That just appears to be sheer arrogance to me, and it has left a bad taste in my mouth.  It has had this whole thread talking mostly about "MOAR SUB BASS", and not enough about the rest of the qualities of this headphone!  What I like about the Oppo approach with reviewers makes sense, they were not allowed to make comments to the prospective buyers until Oppo gave them permission?  If the review units are given to benefit the product, there is really no reason for anyone else to know details until the final retail unit is ready for release!

Really blaming Jerg for sharing his findings with the rest of us? I call that arrogant. He was given the review sample to test it and that's what he did. He found out that the driver is not completely sealing with the baffle so he proposed a fix and also let us know.
I find nothing wrong with that.
Jerg clearly stated that the baffle fix.only improves sub-bass extension and nothing else, it's just driver conductivity nothing else.
It's only a matter of time before Dr. Fang himself makes an official statement. I am sure he is very appreciative of all the effort the reviewers have made to make this a better headphone.

 

[zxc]

  I agree with both of the previous posts, @Mad Lust Envy and @Frank I,  thank you both!  What I didn't care for was the fact that a modder thinks he knows more than the design group.  He should have kept his finding between Hifiman and himself, instead of making it public to the whole world (forum).  That just appears to be sheer arrogance to me, and it has left a bad taste in my mouth.  It has had this whole thread talking mostly about "MOAR SUB BASS", and not enough about the rest of the qualities of this headphone!  What I like about the Oppo approach with reviewers makes sense, they were not allowed to make comments to the prospective buyers until Oppo gave them permission?  If the review units are given to benefit the product, there is really no reason for anyone else to know details until the final retail unit is ready for release!

Do you honestly believe that Hifiman would produce an inferior product because of someone else's suggestion?
 
Oppo's approach sounds great but it's no guarantee for a superior product. I'd be superman if I could stick to every great advice I was given.

 

[jexby]

Cute is the only one upset because
a) he's down to 2 audiophile headphones instead of 3 due to this 560 shipping delay.
Cry me a river.
and
b) somehow wants less information about who/why headphones have been slightly modified and prefers secrecy of NDAs.
Yet likely would also complain if an unreasoned 1-2 week shipping delay happened.

Cute,
Take the bad taste in your mouth, swallow it and cancel your HE-560 pre order.
Means a pair will go to a head-fi member a bit sooner.

ps. Jerg is about the farthest from an arrogant contributor here as possible.