= HiFiMAN HE-560 Impressions & Discussion Thread =
Sep 11, 2014 at 4:48 PM Post #8,101 of 21,171
 
You can bet they will as for certain they monitor threads like this and would have noticed how favourable the response to the 560 has been where cost/performance and weight are concerned. They would be foolish to ignore this as I am willing to bet that HFM is gaining market share at Audeze expense. I certainly was looking at the LCD 2 or 3 and hearing some LCD 3 owners praising the 560 as coming very close in performance at a much lower price made me take the plunge.


Both do performance well, but sound fairly different especially then it comes to tonality.
 
If Hifiman by HE 560 is gaining market share at Audeze expense I’m not so sure at. Hifiman has had some pretty popular cans before as well.


 
Sep 11, 2014 at 5:10 PM Post #8,102 of 21,171
The 560 is certainly the best headphone I've owned yet. The tonal balance [w/ open grilles slightly more than w/ stock] is impeccable.
But grills or not, it's still awesome. Coupled with the comfy Focus pads it is just a supreme experience.
Hard to think of anything what the HE-6 sucessor and Jade II might bring to improve... OK, there's always room for improvement, but little and at what price 
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Sep 11, 2014 at 5:35 PM Post #8,103 of 21,171
The only headphone I've liked better is the Stax SR007mk1, but at 2x's the price used.  I find the bass on the HE560s better but overall it's a presentation thing.  It's that holographic electrostatic sound that's so engaging, the "sound out of nowhere" feeling.
 
 
Anyway...  I finally did the grille mod and I am going to stay with it.  I did some quick comparisons by listening with the modded grilles and then lifting the stock ones and placing them over the modded ones... not a perfect a/b by any stretch but it still brought out that elemental difference in the colourations, the reflections, the stock grilles produce.  I liked the more focused centre image of the stock grilles but there's a kind of "hang-over" effect of the reflections that thicken vocals and take away from that ultimate clarity.
The gains in width can be a little troubling on some tracks producing too much of a left-right divide but the clarity is worth it.
Maybe "clean" is a good word to use.
 
Still, I found more of an overall benefit from taking the fabric off the Focus-A pads.
 
Man, these are too good...  I have my set-up in my workspace and I can't get any work done with them on.  I just get wrapped up in the sound and the music...  
I almost feel I have to downgrade so I can actually get something done...
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Sep 11, 2014 at 5:46 PM Post #8,104 of 21,171
  The only headphone I've liked better is the Stax SR007mk1, but at 2x's the price used.  I find the bass on the HE560s better but overall it's a presentation thing.  It's that holographic electrostatic sound that's so engaging, the "sound out of nowhere" feeling.
 
 
Anyway...  I finally did the grille mod and I am going to stay with it.  I did some quick comparisons by listening with the modded grilles and then lifting the stock ones and placing them over the modded ones... not a perfect a/b by any stretch but it still brought out that elemental difference in the colourations, the reflections, the stock grilles produce.  I liked the more focused centre image of the stock grilles but there's a kind of "hang-over" effect of the reflections that thicken vocals and take away from that ultimate clarity.
The gains in width can be a little troubling on some tracks producing too much of a left-right divide but the clarity is worth it.
Maybe "clean" is a good word to use.
 
Still, I found more of an overall benefit from taking the fabric off the Focus-A pads.
 
Man, these are too good...  I have my set-up in my workspace and I can't get any work done with them on.  I just get wrapped up in the sound and the music...  
I almost feel I have to downgrade so I can actually get something done...
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What are you amping with?
 
Sep 11, 2014 at 6:30 PM Post #8,105 of 21,171
I am using a CEntrance HiFi-M8, mostly out of my ipod (lossless all the way) and sometimes Audirvana.  (I don't have my own computer... my kids and wife have taken them hostage)
 
Perhaps not ideal but it's a remarkably capable dac/amp and portability has always been a requirement  as I often listen while I work and I have to move between workshops in my basement. 
(I'm a knife/sword maker...  www.sbransonknives.com )
 
I've had a dedicated desktop rig in various Stax set-ups, Violectric V181, Bottlehead.... and ultimately I needed 2 set-ups and why have 2 middling systems when you can have one nice one?... so the CEntrance is the best portable solution I could afford...  
 
I'm finding though, that like when I had the Stax.. the music through the HE560s is so compelling that I can't listen and work at the same time.
 
Sep 11, 2014 at 6:34 PM Post #8,106 of 21,171
Grill mod section has been added for each category under the 'differences' portion, along with an addendum at the very end. Value ratings have been added for each section, headphone and the grill mod as well [who doesn't like those?!]. Value section has been added too.
Minor corrections possible and wording variations might apply.
 
[size=10pt]HiFiMAN HE-400i and HE-560 review & comparison - w/ stock grilles and Focus pads[/size]
 
[size=10pt]Disclaimer: The following review/comparison is my subjective assessment of the two headphones. The differences between the two are not night and day quantity-wise, but represent a difference I was able to hear. Both headphones are great sounding devices and this review and comparison should serve to highlight or point out the differences. If you have any questions or if you want to point something out, please do let me know. Hope you enjoy the read ^_^[/size]
 
[size=10pt]Introduction[/size]
[size=10pt]- I received the HE-560 in early July and the 400i last Monday. When I wasn't doing critical listening or direct comparisons, both headphones were being burned-in using pink noise or playing music. Initially, I did not find them very different - it was with time, precise volume matching, listening to many different songs of various genres and most importantly lots and lots of swapping headphones, comparing short segments of different songs, movies or games. After this exhaustive process, the differences finally became clear. I am confident that these comparisons represent my current [and hopefully final] opinion on these two headphones. One thing I very much want to point out - at their respective retail prices, both headphones represent tremendous value. If I only owned one or the other, I would most certainly not find any of either headphone's relative shortcomings troublesome enough to not live with. Also, please do keep in mind my particular setup as well. I will first evaluate each headphone based on its own merits and only then compare it to the other, mentioning where the differences lie, to keep it organized and easy to navigate. Without further ado, here's the comparison.[/size]
 
[size=10pt]Equipment:[/size]
[size=10pt]Media: JRiver Media player 19, using ASIO KS direct connection output[/size]
[size=10pt]Source: USB output of a desktop-PC[/size]
[size=10pt]DAC: Audio-gd NFB-7 via USB input[/size]
[size=10pt]Amplifier: Audio-gd SA-31SE via single-ended RCA input[/size]
[size=10pt]Headphones: HiFiMAN HE-560 & HiFiMAN HE-400i via a 1/4 TRS plug[/size]
[size=10pt]Files: FLAC, 128-320kbps MP3, 256kbps AAC, AC3/DTS [JRiver upmixing - movies], Dolby Headphone/ SBX Pro Studio [via external DSPs - gaming][/size]
[size=10pt]Cables: stock power cables, decent RCA/USB/TOSLINK cables[/size]
 
[size=10pt]Bass[/size]
 
[size=10pt]HE-400i[/size]
[size=10pt]- The 400i has a very good bass response. The mid-bass has a good punch to it and is slightly emphasized, which helps with tracks where the impact is less than desired. The sub-bass is quite good too but rolls off just a bit sooner than I'd like. As far as bass definition, timbre and clarity goes, the 400i keeps a good balance of things. The slight emphasis of the mid-bass does mean that a slight portion of clarity and definition gets lost in the “punch”. It also makes certain instruments sound just a bit boomy [like a timpani or toms] at times, while also having a bit less than perfect control. The bass overall has more punch than it has extension and depth. In terms of tonality still, don't expect it to stray too far away from neutral, just a slight, enveloping bass warmth-tilt. When all's said and done, the bass is very exceptional and capable of sounding phenomenal with the flaws being pretty small.[/size]
 
8.25/10 [8.5 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]HE-560[/size]
[size=10pt]- The 560 has likewise excellent bass. The mid-bass to sub-bass transition is perfectly linear, which means the bass stays neutral, with equal presence. That means, that it will not help with any bass deficiency in recordings but nor will it add any emphasis. The sub-bass is very impressive and goes very deep, giving bass instruments a very realistic tone. Timbre, definition and clarity is as good as I've heard. The punch might be perceived as slightly softer at times, but it is for the sake of preserving all the details in the recording - any more and you'd lose a tint of definition or texture or make that instrument a bit less natural. Nonetheless, it is something to consider. All, in all, if you seek a perfectly neutral bass response that can sound terrifyingly real, this is the one.[/size]
 
8.75/10 [9 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]Differences[/size]
[size=10pt]- The bass of the two is more similar than different. The 400i trades a slight mid-bass emphasis for a slight loss in texture and detail, while the 560 remains equal, give or take, in all of them. The sub-bass presence and extension goes to the 560 and so does the timbre and realness, more on that later. Both can hit hard, the 400i slightly more so, and sound equally impressive with the 560 just being more tonally correct overall, with better sub-bass, while the 400i bass retains more spotlight and presence in the mid-section and upper-bass.[/size]
 
Grill mod - improves mid-bass & sub-bass punch, some minute texture detail might be lost where delicate texture/impact ratio was achieved with original grilles - string bass, ....
 
[size=10pt]Midrange[/size]
 
[size=10pt]HE-400i[/size]
[size=10pt]- The 400i has a midrange that is more forward and up-front than what would be considered neutral. All instruments in the midrange always have their place, with very equal presence. Everything is very easy to distinguish, thanks to exquisite separation. This makes up for a very euphonic, bigger-than-real midrage, which ends up sounding pleasant more often than not. However, this can bring a certain shoutiness to instruments as well. For example, an instrument playing solo [say a piano or a violin], which means there's already a spotlight shining on it, and when you double that, it might just become too much, blending strikes and keys together in a slightly harsh forwardness. The upper midrange-lower treble transition is an area that is a lot less forward in comparison and can sound a bit muted in relation to the rest of the midrange, but nothing too troublesome. Overall, the midrange is more or less forward and coherent, with just a few slight dips and peaks preventing it from being completely perfect as is.[/size]
 
8.75/10 [9 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]HE-560[/size]
[size=10pt]- The 560 has again a very coherent sounding midrange, not forward or laid back, with just enough presence to sound true. That does mean, that some instruments [like triangles or xylophones] can blend in just a bit at times, but the midrange is in no way recessed. The good thing is there's no harshness to be heard and instrument solos sound just lovely, be it pianos or guitars. In general, the more spotlight an instrument steals in the recording, the more it will get and even as its presence increases and disappears, the instrument always appears and decays with finesse. Much like bass, the midrange is the most realistic I've heard, bringing tears in breath-taking solos or just going with the flow among other instruments, while never sounding thin and retaining good dynamics.[/size]
 
9.25/10 [9.5/10 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]Differences[/size]
[size=10pt]- The key difference here is obviously that the 400i midrange is more forward and just brings attention to itself and every instrument there is, thus creating a more often than not, very pleasant coloration. The 560's midrange is just there and lets the recording [or the conductor] to bring the attention to a particular instrument, or not. As a result, the 560 is more natural and delicate, while the 400i presents midrange in a more euphonic and iconic fashion. Midrange, like bass, is where both headphones are competent enough, without any significantly detracting factors.[/size]
 
Grill mod - opens up the midrange a bit more, evens some peaks and dips slightly. Reduces reflections and subsequently takes a way a bit of aggression or edge [a subjective con]
 
[size=10pt]Treble[/size]
 
[size=10pt]HE-400i[/size]
[size=10pt]- The 400i's treble is a bit more complicated. As has been pointed out, the upper midrange-lower treble region is a bit less present, or to put it more simply, the treble is there but it is slightly overshadowed by the relative forwardness of midrange and bass, while the upper treble region is more present. The treble is smooth and well extended overall, without any major peaks but it just does not carry the airy presence I like, and what I assume is the side-effect of this - a noticeable lack of air to instruments that extend to the treble and female vocals. This negatively affects their timbre and accuracy, among other things. It is still a coloration, however, that might be desirable, especially for those people who don't want much treble energy and seek just that warm-tilt with a slight upper-treble sparkle this provides. This is thus a very subjective flaw. It does not affect other things as much, but it is definitely something to consider if you want a completely even and open treble. Other than the air issue, the treble is pretty great and smooth, and if you don't need lots of air in your music, you'll certainly like it. It also varies from genre to genre and track to track, depending on many a factors. Some tracks also add an artificial layer of air to vocals - this is not what I mean. This is natural and is present in each on to a degree.[/size]
 
8/10 [8.5 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]HE-560:[/size]
[size=10pt]- The 560 presents treble in an effortless and convincing manner. Much like midrange, the treble is just there. It isn't harsh or deficient but always present, contributing to an airy presentation. There's no emphasis on cymbals, like the HE-6 used to make. Female vocals sound especially lovely and energetic, with just the right presence. The treble region is an area that is said to be the hardest to do right without either artificially overdoing it or making compromises and cutting back. The treble is again the best I've heard. It is not always incredibly airy [the HE-6 is more so] but it has the power to be just as and more often than not it is and certainly to a point of sounding convincing and not artificial. It always straddles the line of being too smooth and too forward and thus ends right where it should - in the middle.[/size]
 
9/10 [9.5 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]Differences[/size]
[size=10pt]- What separates these two trebles is more than anything, the air. The 400i treble is handled in such a way that it allows very little room for air while the 560 allows for much more. This does mostly affect the decay, timbre and just the way how real and authentic things sound. Best way to demonstrate is with an example. As voices or instruments travel through the air and eventually disappear, they leave a trail around them, a faint presence of sound and movement, what is best described as air, as well as a part of timbre or decay. This air, produced by each instrument or vocal, moves with said instrument or vocal, until it eventually disappears. On the 560, this presence is more and it rises up or moves outside of the field of said instrument/vocal as it decays, almost as if it moved beyond the boundaries of the headphone and their drivers, in a natural and convincing way. If the bow of a violin is moving from left to right and disappears, so does the airy presence. The 400i has less and does not do it nearly as convincingly - you never feel the air 'leaving' the headphone, it stays inside, trapped in the cups and just stops, with a less convincing and shorter decay. This is for me subjectively the most notable deficiency in the 400i's treble, but a very subjective thing indeed. Air is obviously not limited to treble - it manifests itself in the midrange and bass as well, but is not as apparent there as it is here.[/size]
 
Grill mod - more air to the treble, more natural and real, better 'palpability'. Again, takes away a slight edge [welcome for vocals, subjectively less welcome for electric guitars, ...]
 
[size=10pt]Vocals[/size]
 
[size=10pt]Male[/size]
 
[size=10pt]HE-400i[/size]
[size=10pt]- The 400i handles male vocals beautifully. As they are part of the “Magical Midtange”, they are put more forward than female vocals and have great body and presence. The sibilance is never an issue as there's a noticeable dip in the region where major sibilance occurs. At the same time, this dip can have a negative impact, producing vocals that sound a bit muted in the 'S' region and slightly forced in the 'T' and 'F' regions. I suspect the lack of air is partially the cause for the hardness or roughness. This is a very minor issue, however, and is rarely present and hard to focus on without a direct comparison. Still a pleasantly natural vocal performance![/size]
 
9/10 [9.25 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]HE-560[/size]
[size=10pt]- The 560 does male vocals the same way it does it's midrange. No extra body or forwardness, though certainly enough to appreciate the delicacy and realistic nature, but without any extra magic. The “S” region is slightly more pronounced and as a bonus sound more natural and relaxed. The trade-off is that sibilance is more likely to show and it does - so far it was an issue with one track, which the 400i handled better. I again praise the way how vocals vanish into the air and I suspect this naturalness does take away some of the sibilance or hardness there could have been.[/size]
 
9/10 [9/25 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]Differences[/size]
[size=10pt]- Both headphones handle male vocals exceptionally well. The 400i takes the “more forward and smoother” approach, with more body and presence but an easier tonality on the ears, while the 560 picks the “natural and present” approach, with less body but more nuanced. Both approaches are very enjoyable.[/size]
 
Grill mod - slightly more air to male vocals
 
[size=10pt]Female[/size]
 
[size=10pt]HE-400i[/size]
[size=10pt]- The female vocals have good presence and definition. They sound quite natural and without any sibilance. There's again slight mutedness in the sibilance region, and minor emphasis on the 'T's and 'F's at times, coupled with the lack of air, and consequently realistic timbre, does hurt it a bit. That's mostly treble vocals of course, so it is specific to singers in that range. If you listen to female singers with vocals that fall to the midrange more, then those will sound even better. There's definitely noticeably more presence to midrange bound vocals. Still, midramge, or not, the 400i does very good with female vocals too, with good body and presence, eliminating any sibilance there is, unless it is brutally present. It is still a midrange monster however, so it does best there.[/size]
 
8/10 [8.5 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]HE-560[/size]
[size=10pt]- The 560 puts treble female vocals more forward, giving their voice more presence. Coupled with great timbre, air and decay, treble bound vocals sound energetic and beautiful. There's less compensation for sibilance, still enough for vocals to not highlight it, but not enough to mute their transition through that range.[/size]
 
9/10 [9.5 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]Differences[/size]
[size=10pt]- Again, air makes the most difference here, contributing to a more contoured, and realistic listen on the 560, along with slightly better resolution and finesse. Consequently, the 400i is hurt much more by it's lack of any substantial airy quality than by anything else and should we ignore the differences in air, the two are surprisingly close, with the more expensive headphone having just a more even treble response, but which is to be expected at almost twice the price.[/size]
 
Grill mod - boosts treble a bit, more airy and better natural extension
 
[size=10pt]Sibilance[/size]
 
[size=10pt]HE-400i[/size]
[size=10pt]- The 400i has absolutely no issues with sibilance. There's that slight mutedness in this range but nothing major. A great accomplishment with regards to sibilance![/size]
 
9/10 [9.5 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]HE-560[/size]
[size=10pt]- The 560 fares much the same in the sibilance range. The mute is slightly less and theoretically the susceptibility is a bit higher but not enough to be an issue, and it certainly does not take away from the beauty of the vocals.[/size]
 
9/10 [9.5 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]Differences[/size]
[size=10pt]- Both headphones deserve praise for the way they are tuned with regards to vocals as both fight sibilance equally well. The HE-6 struggled with it at times, the AKGs do too but the new HiFiMAN set an example in the way sibilance should be tackled. On my setup, obviously. Big thank you for this, team HiFiMAN![/size]
 
Grill mod - vocals sound less contrained and extend better, reducing the little sibilance there is even more.
 
[size=10pt]Soundstage[/size]
 
[size=10pt]HE-400i[/size]
[size=10pt]- The 400i has a soundstage that is definitely on the smaller, intimate size. Width is just okay, while depth is quite good and so is height. As far as soundstage expansiveness goes, it is quite average. The sounds do not feel like they are coming from outside the headphone. I also believe this directly correlates and is connected with the lack of air, and consequently openness as well. However, while the soundstage is still well-integrated and feels natural. It might feel slightly claustrophobic where there are many instruments at play, but then soundstage separation always remains excellent. Detail retrieval is good too. It also does rather well with regards to imaging![/size]
 
7/10 [7.5 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]HE-560[/size]
[size=10pt]- The 560 has a moderately wide soundstage, where instruments evenly spread across believably, with good stage depth and pretty spectacular height placement, thanks to great imaging capabilities. The stage is pretty expansive, which I again believe directly correlates with the amount of air and the way it opens up the stage and gives more space and room for instruments to breathe. It still probably won't win many awards either, at least not in terms of sheer size, but it is likewise very natural feeling and well integrated. It is just big enough to allow enough room for instruments to not feel compressed and coupled with brilliant instrument separation it works pretty well. Detail retrieval is likewise great.[/size]
 
8/10 [8.5 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]Differences[/size]
[size=10pt]- The differences lie mostly in width and openness, where the 560 clearly has the upper hand. Instrument separation is excellent on both headphones. Imaging also goes to the 560, though the 400i also images well. The 560 and 400i both have well-defined and respectable soundstages in the world of planarmagnetic headphones but there's still some catching-up to do to rival those headphones that are renowned in this category.[/size]
 
Grill mod - improves soundstage width. Instruments have slightly more space to breath and expand.
 
[size=10pt]Imaging[/size]
 
[size=10pt]HE-400i[/size]
[size=10pt]- The HE-400i images pretty well. It might not be the most distinct, and vocalists that are close to each might blend in just a bit, but it still does it respectably and without any major hiccups - an imaging well done, where things are still not difficult to pick up and follow.[/size]
 
8.75/10 [9 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]HE-560[/size]
[size=10pt]- The 560's imaging is even greater. It is very precise, with great definition and makes locating various instruments and vocals in the soundstage even easier. Very accurate![/size]
 
9.25/10 [9.5 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]Differences[/size]
[size=10pt]- The 560 has a slight advantage here but the difference is not too big. Yes, sounds are a bit easier to locate and follow but the 400i is not too far behind and certainly not as far as the price difference would suggest. Both imaging capabilities are certainly above average and better.[/size]
 
[size=10pt]Grill mod - makes imaging ever-so-slightly clearer and easier to identify. Does not affect separation itself, however.[/size]
 
[size=10pt]Instrument separation[/size]
 
[size=10pt]HE-400i[/size]
[size=10pt]- Excellent. Separating instruments is a breeze.[/size]
 
9.5/10
 
[size=10pt]HE-560[/size]
[size=10pt]- Excellent. Instrument separation is an easy-peasy task.[/size]
 
9.5/10
 
[size=10pt]Differences[/size]
[size=10pt]- A complete tie. Maybe that guitar has a bit more presence because of the 400i's forward midrange or that female vocal is a bit more distinct on the 560 because of its more uniform treble. Both are exceptional. Both trade blows. An honest tie.[/size]
 
Grill mod - instrument separation does not benefit from this mod. See imaging above.
 
[size=10pt]Overall Sound Openness[/size]
 
[size=10pt]HE-400i[/size]
[size=10pt]- In case you haven't noticed already, the 400i is not a very open-sounding headphone. It tries to be and at times it sounds quite open but it has too much going against it. The lack of air, the average soundstage size and openness, the bass/midrange X treble slight discrepancy. It is warm and it sounds the part. The 400i is a closed-in headphone. It still sounds like an 'open' headphone and covering the grills still produces the same effect as on the 560 but it is certainly one of the less open sounding cans.[/size]
 
6/10 [7 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]HE-560[/size]
[size=10pt]- The 560, on the other hand, sounds pretty open. Instrumental pieces especially come to life. I've been listening to a certain piano and violin duet and the resulting emotion was simply phenomenal. Amazing leading edge on the violin, great delicacy and definition on each key as the piano played and the amount of air each made. Yep, this sounds pretty open to me.[/size]
 
9/10 [9.5 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]Differences[/size]
[size=10pt]- HE-400i sounds closed-in, HE-560 sounds open. I think everything that needed to be said was said.[/size]
 
Grill mod - both headphones sounds more open. The 400i might benefit a bit more from this mod because the 560 does not really need it, but the difference is there too.
 
[size=10pt]Air[/size]
 
[size=10pt]HE-400i[/size]
[size=10pt]- The 400i has little air. There's some air to male and female vocals in the midrange but vocals located in the treble and most instruments get very little air. It's all connected with the closed-in nature of the headphone. Openness, air and timbre/realism simply suffers for it and not much can be done.[/size]
 
6/10 [7 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]HE-560[/size]
[size=10pt]- Again, the polar opposite. A lot more air to all vocals and instruments. The most impressive thing, however, is how bass instruments [NOT synthetic bass] sound. Lots of air, deep, very tight bass with perfect texture and definition. String bass is just phenomenal, but any bass produced by a real instrument is like that with these.[/size]
 
9/10 [9.5 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]Differences:[/size]
[size=10pt]- Same as with openness. The 560 has it in much greater quantities. Thanks to overall openness, evenly integrated treble, etc.[/size]
 
Grill mod - openness and air do correlate here somewhat. Not that they always to, but the difference here is the same. 400i benefits slightly more.
 
[size=10pt]Timbre/Realism/Decay[/size]
 
[size=10pt]HE-400i[/size]
[size=10pt]- To me timbre, realism, decay, openness, air... all these have to work on a certain level to create a headphone that is truly open and transparent. If one of them fails, then the rest can't be too great either. The 400i unfortunately does not perform too well in either of them, including timbre and realism. I find the instruments to sound slightly artificial [string bass instruments have wrong impact/texture ratio] or colored [the midrange forwardness] and the lack of air does not allow for realistic decay either. That, however, just means that the headphone isn't truly open and transparent, not that it isn't good! It is! And again, all just directly compared to the 560. They sound quite good on their own in timbre/realism, just colored.[/size]
 
7/10 [7.5 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]HE-560[/size]
[size=10pt]- The 560's timbre and realism is spot on and so is decay. Instruments and vocals appear and disappear realistically. Guitars, pianos, violins, tubes, horns, double basses, ... string, key, blow, percussion... male, female... The 560 is an open and transparent headphone. And it is also pretty good.[/size]
 
9.25/10 [9.5 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]Differences[/size]
[size=10pt]- The 560 once again wins in these categories. It is the 560's strong suit but not so much for the 400i. It gives instruments and vocals an artificial tone and/or coloration. It is still quite a pleasant sound, of course! You might even enjoy it more. It still sounds good, albeit less accurate.[/size]
 
Grill mod - Same as with two above categories. The 400i timbre gets a bit more realistic. 560's timbre sound realistic from the get go and thereby the benefit is a bit less again. The timbre the stock grill produce [for the 560] is still very pleasing and as the gain is less, I happen to like them about equally, though the modded grills definitely do sound a bit more real.
 
[size=10pt]Overall Cohesiveness/Balance[/size]
 
[size=10pt]HE-400i[/size]
[size=10pt]- The 400i certainly has a warmer tilt. Punchy bass, forward mids, smooth treble and good musicality and dynamics. Still, it is a rather coherent-sounding headphone with good detail retrieval, great instrument separation, decent imaging and an intimate soundstage and all that has been established. It is also a suitable all-rounder. Maybe not the best pick solely for instrumental or dub-step, but it does those genres likewise reasonably well, along with pop, rock, electronic, alternative and others.[/size]
 
8.5/10 [8.75 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]HE-560[/size]
[size=10pt]- The 560 is really a neutral sounding, balanced headphone, with excellent musicality and dynamics. Great bass, midrange, treble, imaging, soundstaging, separation, detail retrieval... Well, we already know that! It wouldn't be my pick if I only listened to hip-hop, rap or dance but they also perform well with the rest. I really love it with instrumental music. An extremely cohesive performer it is.[/size]
 
9.5/10 [9.75 w/ grill mod]
 
[size=10pt]Differences[/size]
[size=10pt]- A warmly tilt headphone and a neutral headphone. Both extremely good for the price. I am the first to admit that the differences were initially rather hard to discern until I trained my ears. I could honestly live with either of them but at the same time, I am glad I have the opportunity to extensively compare these and appreciate the things they do or don't. And then choose one.[/size]
 
Grill mod - this mod amounts to about a 5% of incremental improvement [somewhere more, somewhere less]. It evens out the slight upper midrange/lower treble peaks [created by stock grilles' reverberation] and evens out mid-subbass transition a bit. It makes the 400i ever so slightly warmer but more rounded, same for the 560. The stock grilles' reverberation might add a layer of coloration, that might be pleasing at times but as an overall and cohesive experience, the modded and more open grilles bring about a slight improvement.
 
[size=10pt]Low-Level Listening[/size]
 
[size=10pt]- Both headphones perform equally well in terms of low-level listening and do not lose anything from their qualities. The quieter you listen, the more their shortcomings come out but since none of them have any that'd noticeably affect your listening experience, you can pretty much listen as loud or quiet as you want without issues. I listen at listening volumes of 35/100 for 560 and 31/100 for 400i respectively, so then I lowered to 30 and 25, 25 and 20 and finally 20 and 10 and they continued to sound just the way they did when they were louder... Just quieter.[/size]
 
[size=10pt]Gaming[/size]
 
[size=10pt]Differences[/size]
[size=10pt]- The 400i has the slight advantage in mid-bass thump. The 560 has a better sub-bass, more precise imaging and a bigger, more natural soundstage. along with a more focused treble and a bit better detail retrieval. Neither, provide an absolutely immerssive, head-rattling experience, obviously. I'd say they both work quite well for both competitive and immersive gaming if you don't require massive amounts of bass. For me, clarity, soundstage and separation are an integral part of my gaming experience and I'd give the slight nod to the 560 for that. Also, deeper bass ^_^[/size]
 
HE-400i - 8/10
 
HE-560 - 9/10
 
[size=10pt]Movies/Series[/size]
 
[size=10pt]Differences[/size]
[size=10pt]- Same as with games. The better extension in the sub-bass along with extra clarity everywhere else comes in handy. Swords ring, guns fire, explosions explode, dialogues play out, all with an extra layer of resolution. Admittedly, the whole experience is a bit better for me with the 560, while the 400i still holds a pretty close second. Also, you can totally tell bad acting and fake sound effects with either... Eeeew.[/size]
 
HE-400i - 8/10
HE-560 - 9/10
 
[size=10pt]Build Quality[/size]
 
[size=10pt]Differences[/size]
[size=10pt]- Both headphones are built better than their predecessors, no doubt. Though, the 400i had an extra month of polish and it shows. It looks noticeably more refined and made to a tighter standard than my one month old 560. The adjustment mechanism, the clamp ratio, the ear-cups swivel, the baffle and the pads-attaching mechanism look and feel more Swiss and precise. As far as aesthetics go, I like both - the more muted look of the HE-560 and the more bold appearance of the HE-400i, but build quality wise, with my two particular pairs, the 400i edges ahead.[/size]
 
8/10 [but can be anywhere between 5 - 9 ^_^]
 
[size=10pt]Comfort[/size]
 
[size=10pt]Differences[/size]
[size=10pt]- Both get a 10/10 with the Focus pads from me! Easily the most comfy headphones I've had the pleasure to wear so far. The only difference is in clamp but that comes down to consistency and not a particular model. My 560 is a bit more clampy while the 400i is a bit looser, but ultimately nothing to detract from the ultimate experience. No itchy or sore ears. No pressure points on the top of my head. Nope. Nada. None. I am also not a fan of the Focus-A pads. Sorry ^_^[/size]
 
9/10 [again might vary due to different clamping force and manufacture variation]
 
Subjective value for the money
 
HE-400i - 9/10 [at 499$]
 
HE-560 - 8/10 [at 899$]
 
Differences: Both headphones represent tremendous value for your money. The 560 is the better headphone but not by as much as the price difference would suggest. On sound alone, they'd be both approaching the highest marks. The build quality and finish imperfections associated with QC tolerances & issues, the packaging mishaps there were, the longevity, which still has to prove itself - these factors prevent these headphones from matching build quality wise what they can do sonically.
This is a bit more excusable with a 500$ headphone but less so with a 900$ one. My own 400i [size=1em]pair even feels more tight and better made than my 560 pair... Yes, that is sadly correct.[/size]
 
[size=small]Grill mod - addendum & description[/size]
 
[size=small]- Both headphones benefit equally from this reversible modification. A slight improvement in air quantity [midrange + treble], bass punch [mid + sub-bass], soundstage width + expansiveness and delicate, pin-point imaging. A slight edge is taken away from aggressive instruments, like electric guitars or violins - this is a con for me but considered a positive by most as it adds up to the natural presentation of these headphones. The bass quantity rise is certainly a plus, though it does mask some slight finesse with instruments where the punch/texture ratio was already perfect before - like string bass.[/size]
[size=small]Overall, I think this mod does bring mostly sonic merits, with just a few slight subjective kinks. It might not be preferred by everyone but I agree that the good things it introduces outweighs the bad, even for me. Certainly recommended to anyone, if just to try - as it is fully reversible.[/size]
[size=small]Overall, the grill mod brings anywhere from 2 - 10% of improvement and the 400i benefits slightly more from it, while it enables the 560 to squeeze that bit of extra realism to make an already excellent dish even better.[/size]
 
 
Sep 11, 2014 at 6:44 PM Post #8,107 of 21,171
What a tour de force...  Thanks!!   Definitely seals the deal for me in thinking about trying the HE400i.  I don't think I would like it anywhere near as much..
 
Sep 11, 2014 at 9:25 PM Post #8,108 of 21,171
 
Yes Audeze has their own QC issues like cracked wood rings and failing drivers.
 
I do think even Audeze have listened to “the community”. They have step by step developed a more open sounded phones with a bit more energy in the upper midrange and treble and in some cases even a little dryer sound (LCDX) than before. I wouldn’t be surprised if they came out with a lighter can in less than a year.


idk if you have seen this panel before? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nxXwHJURXU
 
but in it Alex makes a comment saying how within 2 years all planars will be lighter, and overall greatly improved in the areas they currently have issues. But at the same time, when directly asked about the weight thing with audeze headphones, he didn't really care as much. Kinda like, thats how they are, take it or leave it. I'm sure as he said in 2 years they will all be lighter by design, but unlike Hifiman, he does not seem to be putting that as any kind of priority. It's just two different takes on the designs. Audeze going for the heavy push-pull driver design, and trying to advance that technology to make it lighter, and sounding better. while hifiman has now tried the single sided driver design and will try to make that sound better. The good news overall though, is that it seems planar technology is advancing very quickly, and those guys have some cool new stuff up their sleeves to be revealed very soon.
 
Sep 12, 2014 at 7:10 AM Post #8,109 of 21,171
Just post my review (in french) for the He-560 (comparison vs he-500 and he-6 on the Cavalli Liquid Gold)
 
http://www.tellementnomade.org/hifiman-he-560/
 
Hope Google trad will work fine! In any case, you have some nice pics 
biggrin.gif

 
Sep 12, 2014 at 8:45 AM Post #8,110 of 21,171
Sep 12, 2014 at 8:47 AM Post #8,111 of 21,171
  Just post my review (in french) for the He-560 (comparison vs he-500 and he-6 on the Cavalli Liquid Gold)
 
http://www.tellementnomade.org/hifiman-he-560/
 
Hope Google trad will work fine! In any case, you have some nice pics 
biggrin.gif

The output of Hifiman HE-560 was expected for some time by fans of high-end audio headphones. We could not decently start the new season without taking the time to try this new product carefully. 
 
Hifiman HE-560 
 
Hifiman is one of the brands that rise among the enthusiasts. Raging since 2007 in the audio world, it is especially distinguished itself by offering the first alternative to high-end headphones orthodynamiques the Audeze brand. 
 
This year, the firm founded by Dr. Fang Bian offered a new version of its transducers, with the main new design around a single magnet, like the HE-4 at the time. These drivers were then used in two new helmets, which increase the already rich Hifiman range: the 400i and the HE-HE-560. I myself have had the chance to test for three full weeks the HE-560, thanks to our partner Audiophonics, whom I thank warmly. 
 
I want to be clear in the introduction: although I enjoyed the HE-500 and HE-4 when I was able to try it, I've never been a big fan of helmets Hifiman; my taste pushing me more naturally to the Audeze brand, including the LCD2 rev 2 that I owned for 1 year before opting for a LCD3 there is about it for several months. To perform this test, the HE-560 was associated with an amplifier and a Cavalli Liquid Gold DAC Auralic Ark MX +. I also made ​​sure to compare it to other products Hifiman - HE-500 and HE-6 - to locate the best in the range. 
 
The HE-560 is available in France and costs € 899, which puts it in direct competition with other high-end headphones like Audeze LCD2 Fazor and Beyerdynamic T1. Its price is a bit higher than the HE-500 (700 €), I was really excited to see how this difference would result once the headphones on. 
 
Equipment used for testing: Hifiman he-6, Hifiman he-500, Audeze LCD3, Amplifier Cavalli Liquid Gold, DAC Auralic Ark MX +. 
 
specifications 
Speaker: 50mm 
Impedance: 35 Ohm 
Efficiency: 90 dB / mW 
Frequency response: 15 Hz - 50 KHz 
Weight: 375 g 
Cable: 2 m long, consisting of copper and silver, 6.35mm jack termination 
Aesthetics and finishing 
 
Hifiman accustomed us to an aesthetic and a fairly straightforward presentation for its helmets. The revival of the range passes visibly by significant developments in this area, with an arch change and finishing, as well as a storage box more current and better bill. All made ​​better impression immediately. 
 
Packaging Hifiman HE-560 
 
The famous box synthetic leather disappears first in favor of a wooden box with a sliding top surface covered with an aluminum plate. Unquestionably Hifiman revised its copy to give us a much more impressive than in the past "packaging". 
 
On the headset itself, then, the overall lines of the ET family are preserved, but in favor of an alliance of matte black plastic and wood; a beautiful object it certainly stands there. Much better finished than the HE-500 and HE-6 through better materials, the HE-560 marks a turning point for the brand relevant. Much a HE-6 all-plastic could do "cheap" compared to the competition, as today, the level of finish of the youngest is close to that of the other brands in this price range. The system allows you to adjust the headband and adapt the helmet to the size of his head seems solid and proves accurate. 
 
There are also all new pads, consisting of several materials: the imitation leather inside packed (with a surface having many holes) and outside of the pad, while the pile makes contact with the skin. These new pads are greatly inspired by the research of enthusiasts, who mixed the different materials to maximize comfort so that the overall acoustic output of ET. Hifiman also knows incorporate the innovations of his community. 
 
The cable is for its classic hand-wrapped, fabric and finished very well. And it seems less aesthetically attractive than the HE-6, it may be more durable than the latter, which tends to age badly. I would have still enjoyed that Hifiman offers a balanced cable in addition to the basic cable in its packaging. 
 
 
Interior packaging Hifiman HE-560 
 
There are also connectors typical of the brand, which always prove as difficult to use. There is too little space around the male connector attached to the helmet and assembling / disassembling the cable results in a fight several minutes to successfully secure it. This is a point on which it would have been nice qu'Hifiman make progress. 
 
In sum, despite some pitfalls connectors, Hifiman offers advanced in the finish of its products real, finally allowing them to play in the same league as their competitors. 
 
 
comfort 
 
The novelty in Hifiman does obviously not limited to mere cosmetic changes. 
 
As we had mentioned in the introduction, new transducers have emerged, with specificity include a single magnet, like the JPS Labs Abyss. The goal is to avoid pressure disturbances and acoustic wave generated by placing a second magnet between the membrane and the ear of the user, as was the case with older models or Audeze ET . These new drivers are lighter than those of the HE-500 and HE-6, which have retained their two magnets. 
 
In terms of comfort, the effect is significant: the helmet weight down to 375 grams - slightly more than a Beyerdynamic T1 (350 grams) - but a lot less than the HE-500 (502 grams); the difference is significant! 
 
The new pads are quite firm, but not as deep as the old ones. Accordingly, the ears may optionally contact the front face of the transducer. The arch is very well designed and the weight better distributed than in the past; HE former tend to bear the whole weight on top of the skull. 
 
This overall positive assessment, however, is offset by a "clamping" (tension) significantly larger than the head, which can quickly become annoying as tolerated and skull shape of the user. 
 
 
Hifiman HE-560 vs Audeze LCD3 
In short: less weight you feel, but the presence of the helmet is accented at the port. This makes the HE-560 less enjoyable over time and I admit I preferred the comfort of the HE-6 during my comparative listening. 
 
amplification 
 
I was greatly surprised by the power of the HE-560 requires for its amplification. It does not equal the HE-6 on the subject, but he did not take much. So plan a powerful headphones to listen to a suitable volume amplifier. 
 
About synergy is a headset that responds well to most amps, since it has the resource capacity needed to make it sound. However, whilst HE-560 may be sibilant - even more than the HE-6 - depending on the electronic hardware in your sound system and the quality of streamed recordings. I have long had great difficulty listening to the upper midrange / treble of the HE-6, which was ringing in my ears aggressively, but I have not experienced any discomfort with the Cavalli Liquid Gold in the matter. 
 
The HE-560 on its side shows some intransigence and makes you what you give him upstream, the good, the bad. Take care of your system! 
 
its 
 
The HE-560 has often been presented as an improved version of the HE-500. To me, its signature sound is rather at the crossroads between the HE-500 and HE-6. Less textured than the HE-500 but a little straighter - like the HE-6 - it is clearly a good synthesis between these two headsets. 
 
 
Hifiman HE-560 vs Audeze LCD3 
 
The first point to make is that the HE-560 offers big sound pressure: the sound is felt physically on all frequency ranges, which provides a "wow effect" factor when you discover it. But do not expect as much material as listening to a Audeze or HE-500. The sound is "clean," as one might say of a dynamic headset or HE-6. This pressure provides the coup an engaging listen, but it can be stressful when listening sessions lengthen, where a HE-6 will be air and HE-500 more textured, sweeter. I myself have hardly passed the time listening to the HE-560 without having to pause. 
 
Talking specifically different frequencies reproduced by the he-560: 
 
Sub-bass 
 
In the manner of all the Hifiman range, the HE-560 down low, very low. We find the power and speed of the HE-6, which makes it particularly remarkable to listen to music with this demanding frequency range. You have a lot of impact, which actually supports the rhythm section. This impact remains constant regardless of the music genre, which can be confusing in the presence of quieter styles such as acoustic or jazz combos. However, when you switch from electro and rock, the urge to stomp immediately. 
 
Basses 
 
The bass is a little more present than the HE-6. The ET-560 is similar to the end over ET-500 in this area. Without overdoing it - no hype or artificial inflation is deplorable - they are rich and clean. Compared with the texture and organic nature of its proposed Audeze LCD2 and LCD3 or ET-500 - which comes close - the HE-560 is less visceral and sounds more neutral ... At the risk of being a little too polite in the register. Except that comparison, the performance remains excellent. 
 
Midbass 
 
The lower midrange is a bit more developed than the HE-6, which makes the most musical and natural HE-560. In contrast, compared to the HE-500, this segment of the spectrum is less now, but I think it allows the helmet to strike the right balance between neutrality and musicality. 
 
mediums 
 
The mediums are transparent, like the HE-6. Articulated and ventilated, they are full of details of records and highlight naturally shades. Unfortunately, this type of presentation limit the carnal side I like the voice, that sound a little too bright for my taste. The helmet flourishes best on female voice. Despite the lack of density and texture, instruments speaking in this frequency range have a lot of presence with the overall sound pressure from headphones. 
In summary, in spite of his great qualities, some will find this area a little too dry and not enough development, while others will appreciate his attention to detail and transparency. 
 
Midrange 
 
The upper midrange is a problem area throughout the Hifiman range since we usually reflect the sibilance and aggression. This is the case with the 4-HE, HE-400, ET-6; HE-500 being only very slightly affected. With the HE-560, these feelings are even stronger. In return, the helmet is very detailed - to the point of competing with the HE-6 on the plan - and offers a nice breather "soundstage." 
 
It is a stated bias of the brand and some will not be there at all sensitive ... or too sensitive, exactly. It all depends on your preferences. 
 
treble 
 
In the manner of sub-bass, treble possess an attractive extension, while offering beautiful harmonics. The record is Air: cymbals and violins are very well transcribed, lightly. Like the HE-6, the upper register is a highlight of the helmet, which is easily up to the level of other competitors with a more neutral technique. 
 
Soundstage and presentation 
 
If the HE-560 is clearly in line with the Hifiman range in terms of signature, there is one point on which the helmet marks a radical departure from his elders: the presentation of the music. 
 
While the HE-6 provides an overview and depth while the HE-500 a little closer to the listener at the HE-560 is truly front and very direct. We find this development on most helmets orthodynamiques out lately, be it LCD-X / XC, or LCD3 Fazor. 
 
This bias allows the HE-560 to be both more catchy, faster, and more dynamic, but, due to its sound pressure, it is also more demanding and tiring. If one were to express all this in a phrase, it would be possible to say that this helmet "give everything all the time, and sometimes too"; which is sometimes inappropriate in the light of listening music style. Personally, I still prefer the solution proposed by the HE-6 or HE-500 presentation more "relaxed" and less front. It proves in my opinion easier to live in time and does not require to stand listening. This is certainly the main reason I have a hard time considering the HE-560 as a natural evolution of the HE-500; the latest displays a personality of its very specific and really stands out from its predecessor. A lover of the HE-500 can not be in the HE-560 will be found. 
 
The depth is smaller than 6 or the HE-HE-500, but still the ability to restore the sound pressure of each independently of the other allows the ET-560 to provide excellent ventilation. It appears very fair about the distribution and the dynamic mic. The soundstage is finally more spherical than the HE-500. 
 
conclusion 
 
The HE-560 is not a simple improvement of the HE-500. We are clearly in the presence of a unique helmet, with its own musical identity. 
 
If you like the energy, presence, energy, and are not too sensitive to aggression in the upper midrange, this helmet is a very serious contender. Not as rich and refined air than HE-6, not as textured and natural that HE-500, HE-560, however skillfully blend the sound signature of these headphones to provide a coherent synthesis. 
 
Applicant level amplification although less demanding than the HE-6, lighter but not necessarily more comfortable, the Hifiman HE-560 still shows that the brand is trying to change its offer, taking into account the requests and suggestions of our customers. 
 
Rating: 7.5 / 10
 
Sep 12, 2014 at 5:55 PM Post #8,112 of 21,171
   
did you only use the stock tubes in the Lyr 2?
 
If you could summarize/generalize your comparison between the Lyr 2 and Polaris with respect to soundstage, bass and micro-detail it would be appreciated.

Sorry for the delay ..
I don't post about my impressions much because I tend to listen for pleasure and not analytically. Analytical listening and documenting my thoughts is definitely work for me.
 
Yes I used the Lyr 2 with stock tubes. For the price the guy wanted it simply was not worth it when I already had the Sunrise III. I use a nice Mullard 12AU7  in the Sunrise.
I got the Polaris so that I did not have to worry about warm up time and anal retentive biasing every time I want to listen. I don't get enough time listening to have to plan for it and to go through the "process" each time.
 
They being said, I have had a few occasions to really relax and get into listening with the Polaris and HE-400i. I tend to not be effusive about much of anything, but I was completely unprepared for how much I enjoyed those two sessions. Completely engrossing, natural sounding glorious music. Listening to the Chesky headphone binaural tracks, I actually go "some" sound stage from more than a few inches outside of my head. I would like to do it again with some different amps and some of my other headphones. Unfortunately, it is likely that by the time I do, I will not remember the nuances well enough to do any kind of useful comparison.
 
For the price of the Lyr 2, I can pay for the one I have and get another Polaris for my setup at work... and not feel like I am missing anything at all. At this point, I am not at all driven to go out and buy something "better" than this combination. I have been really tempted by the HE-560, but at this point I think I am happy...
 
Until the compulsion for something new and shiny overtakes me once again... BUT I am hoping I can wait a few years !!
biggrin.gif
 
 
Sep 12, 2014 at 7:05 PM Post #8,113 of 21,171
  ...
 
Until the compulsion for something new and shiny overtakes me once again... BUT I am hoping I can wait a few years !!
biggrin.gif
 

Good luck to you!!
 
Sep 12, 2014 at 8:42 PM Post #8,114 of 21,171
  Good luck to you!!


I went three years...controlling myself. In the last year, six sets of headphones, six amps, three DACs.. and plunked down a bunch of cash in pledges for a Geek Wave...
Time for a break... I hope.
Thanks for the well wishes!
 
Sep 12, 2014 at 8:47 PM Post #8,115 of 21,171
I just received a replacement HE560 and it's fantastic! Cosmetically it's perfect like the first, but everything feels more high quality: The cups don't rotate as freely and are tight, the headband sliders are nice and tight and have a solid click, inside the felt material around the driver is perfectly flush - the previous one had snags. I think the finish is even nicer. It looks darker and sort of reddish. Best of all there's no rattling!
 
Packaging was very secure, the phones were protected by about 15 layers of bubble wrap lol and were wrapped in tape which said "checked." They even had plastic wrap around the plastic parts with logos: 


 
HiFiMAN is stepping up they're listening to you guys. 
 

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