But a headphone shouldn't have a different sound signature! Instruments and voices have a sound in real life and the headphone should aim to produce those sounds as close to real life as possible. YMMV.
But that's not real life. Many headphones do have a sound signature. If they didn't...there would only be the need for one very realistic sounding headphone and nothing else. That would be quite boring but much easier when trying to decide on what headphones to buy since there would be only one option. I agree though...I'd rather have natural or a more natural sound but since that's not the way it goes in the vast majority of headphones...I choose based on what I like to hear when it's not a natural sounding headphone...which so far I haven't personally owned one....but I'd say my Etymotics are pretty close.
actually i think schiit house sound, somewhat bright, does not work well with he500 due to the annoying treble spike,
on the other hand, with more laid-back and darker house sound such audio-gd it would suit the he500 better
Audiophile requires synergy in mind when choosing components. I have experience that a headphone sounds lifeless in one system, but turns out one of the best options in another system.
We need to have sufficient knowledge on products, and how that synergy mechanism between different devices. This needs quite a lot of learning, studying, analysis and trial.
I wouldn't criticize a product before do my best to try it in different scenarios, environment.
Everyone is different. I don't buy into a lot of the stuff people swear is gospel but I do know without a shadow of a doubt there's differences between headphones and amps and there's synergy and all that. But what I think is a to die for sound you may think is blah...and the other way around. I think my RS1i's are heavenly. Next guy that posts might think they are devil spawned. So for you...if you think the HE-500 was lack luster and not worth the money...don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Sell or return them and try something else. No doubt there's a lot better than your M50's, you just have to find it. That's definitely part of the fun/frustration of this hobby.
Very true, this frustration and fun is going to be worth it once I find a setup that works for me, hopefully! I think I will return it, but I'm not sure whether to give them another chance or not because the seller has a 30-day return policy. I think I will decide once I figure out if the HD650 is better or not. Thanks for the reply.
Seems like the headphone's sound signature just didn't mesh well with your ears. It happens, everyone's ears are different. Plenty of other headphones in the sea.
Also keep in mind for the future, if people here claim night and day differences between any two pieces of gear, half the time the differences are minor and the other half they're nonexistent
I learn that more and more as time passes haha. I'm not really sure whether it's the headphone not meshing with my ears, or my ears not meshing with the headphones, if you know what I mean. It is true that there are plenty of other headphones out there, but in this price range I think there's only really a few desirable options (Sennheiser, HiFiMAN, and Grado, any others?). Thanks for the reply, I love your avatar!
Its hard to quantify improvements from one headphone to another, but realistically, a $1000 headphone is not going to sound 10 times better than a $100 headphone.
I think after the $200-300 range, the audible improvements become significantly smaller.
It's not? I thought that it was the perfect amp, based on...well, everything. It's a tube amp, which is nice. Actually, it's a hybrid tube amp so it provides a whole lot of power. It's got a gain switch so I can also use it with more sensitive headphones. It's affordable for a student like me. It's by Schiit, which is a no bullSchiit company lol, their products usually have good ratings.
What would a speaker amp do to improve the HE-500? It would supply a lot of power, but wouldn't that just end up making the headphones louder? And how could that possibly be better when the Lyr 2 is a headphone amp so it is designed for use specifically with headphones meaning that it has a low noise floor and whatnot?
While a speaker amp pairs quite well with the HE-500, I would not be so quick to dismiss the Lyr with the HE-500. With even the slightest effort to put in different tubes from stock, it is possible to be happy with the pairing. I think my Lyr sounds outstanding with the HE-500.
Nice job on the write-up. I respect your impressions and the time it took you to write them up. It's too bad that you are not satisfied with your purchase. I have only a few points to state off the top of my head:
1)The HD 650, which you said you are considering, is notorious for frustrating buyers as well, perhaps being one of the most misunderstood headphones out there. I absolutely hated them when I got them and responded exactly the way you did here. "These are not at all worth $500 [what I paid for them in 2008]. They sound worse than my old, cheap headphones," I thought. Many people have sold their HD 650s for sounding boring and laidback. Now I have learned to really appreciate their organic, rich tone and almost surreal midrange, but it took me a longer time to come to that conclusion. Point being this: you should proceed with caution before any audiophile purchase in the future. It is common to be disappointed initially when coming from a closed, bassy, and fun signature like the M50.
2) How long did you listen to these, what types of music (other than Mariah Carey) did you try, and did you use high-quality source material (mp3 at 320 kbps or FLAC)? I would suggest, if you have not already, giving these a week or two before drawing a firm conclusion (unless you've done that already), and run them through a wide variety of musical genres. Do ensure your source material is solid though. Crap in = crap out. Try listening to some well-recorded cello and violin on these headphones; it sounds jaw-droppingly good to my ears. I primarily listen to electronic music, and this headphone is just wonderful with that genre, but it does rock and classical great too. My father thought the instruments were in the same room when he heard my headphones last summer. He now has the HE-560s.
3) What pads are you using? HiFiMAN has released new pads for the HE-560, and I have found the Focus-A pads significantly improve the sonic virtuosity of the HE-500. They surpass the stock velour and pleather imo, and they are also a good deal more comfy. Bass definitely sounds fuller, for one, and the entire frequency sounds more natural, slightly warmer.
4) You probably heard the HE-500 have a good soundstage from those who have done the reversible grill mod (there is an entire thread on this), in which you remove the grills from the headphone to let them open up. With grills removed, the soundstage does improve drastically, but with them on, the headphone (like all orthos [including Audezes]) will sound relatively closed in, like you're listening in a chamber.
5) Final point: I remember when I got these headphones too; I researched them for a year and paid $600. I am also a student so can only make a major purchase once a year. I was not too impressed the first few days either. I remember clearly being a little let down, but by the third day of running my collection of files through them, I definitely had changed my mind. You may finally decide to confirm your conclusion above. These might not be for you, just as the HD 650s, AKGs, or Beyers are not for others.
In the meantime, though, assuming you have not listened to them for at least a week or two, try giving them a fair chance. You might also find it useful to read through some of the HE-500 impressions thread if you haven't yet; it is quite long but there is some useful information there. Let us know what you decide to do, and feel free to send a PM if you have any questions, as I have a similar setup to you with the Lyr and HE-500s.
1. In what ways exactly is the difference between the HD650 and the HE500? I've heard varying answers to this question, ranging from big difference to very small difference according to some people. Some people said that the HE-500 was like a better version of the HD650, but I'm looking for a more detailed answer than that, but not one that claims a night and day difference. Which one do you prefer and why? Also, yes the biggest reason why I'm probably disappointed is because I'm coming from a headphone like the M50. I don't like that way the M50 seems rather congested, but when I come to the HE-500, I''ve not yet become accustomed to such a different sound signature and I end up missing all that bass from the M50. I guess I'll just have to get used to it?
2. I don't really listen to Mariah Carey lol. I just mentioned her here because she came up on Pandora and she can bring her voice up pretty high. I've had the HE-500 for around a week now and I've been giving them a good 45min to an hour of listening each day in my small amount of free time. I was actually out of town for a week so I've had them for two weeks, but I've only been listening to them for one week. I listen to so many different genres of music that it would be more convenient to tell you what I don't listen to lol but I think I cover the whole spectrum of different music. I don't really listen to hardcore techno and electronica like Tiesto, but I listen to a lot of other electronic genres like EDM, dubstep, hardstyle, and trap. I use Soundcloud a lot.as well as Spotify. Other than that, I do have music from HDTracks as well as the testing tracks from Dr. Chesky, which is part of what I use to evaluate any equipment because those are the highest quality files that I have.
3. I did everything I could without modding the headphones to make them sound as good as they can, I think. I haven't replaced the stock tubes on my Lyr 2 yet, but I replaced the pleather pads with the included velour pads because a lot of people claimed that there was a noticeable difference when switching. I thought that replacing the pads to alter the sound was nonsense but I did it anyways. I've never experienced velour ear pads on a headphone, they feel funny on my head. I might buy the new pads from HiFiMAN later on if I decide to keep this headphone.
4. I will probably do that mod if it's 100% safe and reversible if I decide to keep these headphones. They do sound pretty closed in right now. Another disappointment when I was expecting them to sound really spacious out of the box.
5. I want to give them more time, but I don't have much time left before I must make a firm decision because the seller I purchased these from has a 30-day return policy. Also, it's still at least $20 to ship them back. I'm really stuck between returning them and giving them another chance. Keep in mind that this is my first high-end headphone.
I really appreciate your reply, thank you! I'll go take a look at that thread.
Also, how many hours have you used the HE-500's? I've read a bunch of reviews about the HE-400's where people said initially they weren't impressed but after some time they got used to the different sound signature and all the sudden fell in love. Could be that your ears/brain just need to get used to them and maybe they need a little burn in time. I don't know if people generally feel the same about the HE-500 but it might be just a matter of putting more time in with them.
A lot of people claim that after a while they became fond of their headphones. However, I don't really know how that works. How exactly does one come to enjoy something simply due to becoming exposed to it for a prolonged period of time? I've been listening to my HE-500s for a week for around 45 minutes to an hour each day. When you say they "got used to the sound", it seems like they should then become less impressed by the sound and not the other way around, similar to when one enters a kitchen and smells the delicious smell in air, but after some minutes the sensation goes away as they get used to the smell. It could be my brain that needs to burn in and not the headphones because I've heard that if you don't like the sound of a headphone, you most likely won't like it any more after burning them in. So, it could also be that this sound signature just doesn't really work out for me. That's hard to figure out, and I don't know how I would predict or evaluate if it's me that needs to burn in my brain or that they don't work out for my ears.
Uhh, you're comparing the bloated, muddy bass of the M50 to the HE500's significantly more polite bass. It's not surprising you don't like them. You probably should have spent about $250 less and gotten the HE400 and be happier. I don't like the HE500 all that much anymore myself, but I do have to say they're definitely worth $500 when taking the fact that the HD650, which has looser bass, is usually $400 into consideration.
The bass of the M50s is pretty congested. I guess you could call the bass of the HE-500s "polite" but I would then reply by saying that it is too polite IMHO. I didn't choose the HE-400 for a number of reasons. I didn't feel that it was a worthy upgrade to my M50s. As I've previously stated, I'm a student so I don't have much spending ability. Also, I've read many people warning others not to get on the hype train of the HE-400, and that they are very sibilant and not worth the sound which was extremely V shaped. My M50s are already V shaped and they don't have sibilance problems and they generally receive no complaints and a lot of praise instead. Another reason is that I got these HE-500s for $500, while the HE-400 was still at $400.
A lot of people claim that after a while they became fond of their headphones. However, I don't really know how that works. How exactly does one come to enjoy something simply due to becoming exposed to it for a prolonged period of time? I've been listening to my HE-500s for a week for around 45 minutes to an hour each day. When you say they "got used to the sound", it seems like they should then become less impressed by the sound and not the other way around, similar to when one enters a kitchen and smells the delicious smell in air, but after some minutes the sensation goes away as they get used to the smell. It could be my brain that needs to burn in and not the headphones because I've heard that if you don't like the sound of a headphone, you most likely won't like it any more after burning them in. So, it could also be that this sound signature just doesn't really work out for me. That's hard to figure out, and I don't know how I would predict or evaluate if it's me that needs to burn in my brain or that they don't work out for my ears.
I guess it just means that a new headphone that is much different than what you are used to takes time to adjust to. Sometimes it's instant and sometimes you just get comfortable with it and all the sudden you are like...damn, these are awesome. I've seen it with cars personally. You are so used to your old car. You get a new one. It's clearly a much better machine...but the first week or two you just aren't sure because you have grown so accustom to the old car, the new one is just foreign to you. But once you get used to the steering and the brakes and where all the knobs and buttons are, one day you'll just get in it and start driving and realize how sweet your new ride is and how much better it is than your old hooptie.
I say wait it out a little longer and see. If you still aren't convinced, send them out. You'll be out like $20 in shipping but you can consider that a rental/audition fee. Get something else. Try it. See how it compares. Maybe you'll find something that has that instant appeal, maybe something else will make you realize that the HE-500 was actually awesome, maybe it will confirm it really wasn't the headphone for you. I feel lucky that I'm not like a lot of folks on here...I don't have that ever present need to buy sell and trade headphones. About every couple years I'll get an itch. I'll do some research and see what's out there that interests me and usually I'll sell something and get it and be happy with it. That's what is happening with me now. I just sold one of my Grados and ordered the HE-400 and I'm ordering the Phillips Fidelio X2. I'll keep the one that I like best assuming I like either one. I'll either send the other back since they are both easy to return or I'll offer it up for sale. I'll probably be good for a couple more years. I do need a better amp though so that might be on my list for sooner than later, but that won't be for a while to come (tax return maybe).
For some reason I thought the $200 price at Black Friday for the HE400 was permanent. Though they're really easy to find under $300 any day. Used, $250 is the norm. And putting some toilet paper in front of the driver helps a lot with similar center in my experience (I'm not kidding).
And about the M50 praise: the M50 is many people's first serious headphone upgrading from stock stuff, so most of what is written about the M50 will be positive no matter what they sound like. From what I remember, a lot of people who looked at the HE400 early on wanted an alternative to the HD650 when in reality they're basically the opposite of them, which would make negative reviews of them understandable. It's really not a serious V-shape, compared to the DT990 (from memory). I seriously think you should still try the HE400 if you aren't happy with the HE500 by the end of the week and can still return them. But I totally understand the struggle of being a student. I sold my Audio Technica W5000 last semester to buy food.
Also, to play devil's advocate concerning the HD650, they only have a little more bass than the HE500 and it had this slightly sloppy quality to it that I only noticed the third time owning it.
One last thing. The smell analogy isn't quite right. Getting used to a headphone is more like breaking in a pair of new shoes. It's new and may be slightly uncomfortable at first, but you eventually get used to it and really settle into them.
For some reason I thought the $200 price at Black Friday for the HE400 was permanent. Though they're really easy to find under $300 any day. Used, $250 is the norm. And putting some toilet paper in front of the driver helps a lot with similar center in my experience (I'm not kidding).
And about the M50 praise: the M50 is many people's first serious headphone upgrading from stock stuff, so most of what is written about the M50 will be positive no matter what they sound like. From what I remember, a lot of people who looked at the HE400 early on wanted an alternative to the HD650 when in reality they're basically the opposite of them, which would make negative reviews of them understandable. It's really not a serious V-shape, compared to the DT990 (from memory). I seriously think you should still try the HE400 if you aren't happy with the HE500 by the end of the week and can still return them. But I totally understand the struggle of being a student. I sold my Audio Technica W5000 last semester to buy food.
Also, to play devil's advocate concerning the HD650, they only have a little more bass than the HE500 and it had this slightly sloppy quality to it that I only noticed the third time owning it.
One last thing. The smell analogy isn't quite right. Getting used to a headphone is more like breaking in a pair of new shoes. It's new and may be slightly uncomfortable at first, but you eventually get used to it and really settle into them.
Hi-fi can be a very obsessive hobby. Some people listen to a slight sonic difference and loose their sleep. Some others listen to a big enough sonic difference and say : ''_what's the big deal'' ...
HE 500s are excellent headphones. Much better than HD 650s (I own them both), and much much better than the AT50s ... people have different priorities though, even in music listening...
I would advice the thread starter to look somewhere else. If he didn't like his HFM, then no pads swapping, mods, whatever, could change his mind drastically. It is clear that his listening priorities don't much with this hp's character, strong points & traits.
However, to state that HE 500s are a waste of money is a totally false statement. E.g., for me is the best hp around in the sub-1000 bucks category. Its drawbacks have to do, not with the sonic attitudes but with physical ones (heavy, uncomfortable, hot on ears, etc. ) ...
I guess it just means that a new headphone that is much different than what you are used to takes time to adjust to. Sometimes it's instant and sometimes you just get comfortable with it and all the sudden you are like...damn, these are awesome. I've seen it with cars personally. You are so used to your old car. You get a new one. It's clearly a much better machine...but the first week or two you just aren't sure because you have grown so accustom to the old car, the new one is just foreign to you. But once you get used to the steering and the brakes and where all the knobs and buttons are, one day you'll just get in it and start driving and realize how sweet your new ride is and how much better it is than your old hooptie.
I say wait it out a little longer and see. If you still aren't convinced, send them out. You'll be out like $20 in shipping but you can consider that a rental/audition fee. Get something else. Try it. See how it compares. Maybe you'll find something that has that instant appeal, maybe something else will make you realize that the HE-500 was actually awesome, maybe it will confirm it really wasn't the headphone for you. I feel lucky that I'm not like a lot of folks on here...I don't have that ever present need to buy sell and trade headphones. About every couple years I'll get an itch. I'll do some research and see what's out there that interests me and usually I'll sell something and get it and be happy with it. That's what is happening with me now. I just sold one of my Grados and ordered the HE-400 and I'm ordering the Phillips Fidelio X2. I'll keep the one that I like best assuming I like either one. I'll either send the other back since they are both easy to return or I'll offer it up for sale. I'll probably be good for a couple more years. I do need a better amp though so that might be on my list for sooner than later, but that won't be for a while to come (tax return maybe).
While what you are saying makes sense and though I do want to try them out for longer, I don't really know why I am having trouble hearing the "strong points" of this headphone. I think the reason is that I really have no experience in higher end gear, so I don't really know how to pick things out and analyze them. I have no serious problem with my hearing, but it's been over a week and I'm still not hearing what's coming out any differently than when I first heard them. Thanks for the reply though
Hi-fi can be a very obsessive hobby. Some people listen to a slight sonic difference and loose their sleep. Some others listen to a big enough sonic difference and say : ''_what's the big deal'' ...
HE 500s are excellent headphones. Much better than HD 650s (I own them both), and much much better than the AT50s ... people have different priorities though, even in music listening...
I would advice the thread starter to look somewhere else. If he didn't like his HFM, then no pads swapping, mods, whatever, could change his mind drastically. It is clear that his listening priorities don't much with this hp's character, strong points & traits.
However, to state that HE 500s are a waste of money is a totally false statement. E.g., for me is the best hp around in the sub-1000 bucks category. Its drawbacks have to do, not with the sonic attitudes but with physical ones (heavy, uncomfortable, hot on ears, etc. ) ...
HiFi is pretty obsessive, about 1/3 of my free time is dedicated to browsing forums, most of which are Head-Fi. I am definitely the type of person who "listen to a big sonic difference and say 'what's the big deal?" because, as I previously stated, I am having trouble hearing what all of these people are saying about this headphone. The main difference I hear is the significantly less amount of bass the HE-500 has, but I am having trouble hearing all the praise people give to the midrange and such.
I agree and also think that this is one of the best headphones in the <$1000 category, and some people even prefer it the the HD-800. That is why I chose it. I also heard people either say that the HE-500 is comparable to the HD650, but nobody claimed that the HD650 was better, people only said that they preferred the HE-500 or were evenly split between the two.
Also, if you read the end of my first post, you would have seen that the only reason I wrote that the HE-500s are a "waste of money" was to attract attention haha, I think that they are a great headphone based on what I have read, but I am having so much trouble finding appreciation for this headphone because I am having trouble hearing what people are saying is good about it.
What would a speaker amp do to improve the HE-500? It would supply a lot of power, but wouldn't that just end up making the headphones louder? And how could that possibly be better when the Lyr 2 is a headphone amp so it is designed for use specifically with headphones meaning that it has a low noise floor and whatnot?
What tubes do you recommend? (pls not tubes that cost $100+ each lol that's crazy!)
as i mentioned above the schiit house sound is quite bright which does not work with treble spike in he500
second, ortho driver needs very high and also good quality of power to be properly driven hence common sense about headphone amp does not apply with he500 and he6. If you on budget i suggest you look for emotiva mini x speaker amp + he500. Or if you really want to go with a headphone amp then i suggest you try Audio-gd master9.
as i mentioned above the schiit house sound is quite bright which does not work with treble spike in he500
second, ortho driver needs very high and also good quality of power to be properly driven hence common sense about headphone amp does not apply with he500 and he6. If you on budget i suggest you look for emotiva mini x speaker amp + he500. Or if you really want to go with a headphone amp then i suggest you try Audio-gd master9.
I don't know how the power requirements compare between the HE-400 and HE-500 but I find that my Kenwood stereo receiver does an excellent job at powering my HE-400's.
as i mentioned above the schiit house sound is quite bright which does not work with treble spike in he500
second, ortho driver needs very high and also good quality of power to be properly driven hence common sense about headphone amp does not apply with he500 and he6. If you on budget i suggest you look for emotiva mini x speaker amp + he500. Or if you really want to go with a headphone amp then i suggest you try Audio-gd master9.
...there is a lack of really powerfull head-amps in this price range ... you can go cheaper with the single ended version of master-9 ( http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/C-2Class%20A/C2classAEN_Specs.htm ) or you can go to the lake ... ( http://www.thomann.de/gb/lake_people_g109s_highend_phoneamp.htm) ...the latter is a really ecxellent choice and matches very well with the HE 500s ... It is not in my desk, just because I also need one line outpout for driving my powered speakers.
I
They're just not worth what you pay, at all, even at this all-time low price of $500.
I'm 17 years of age now, in my senior year of high school
First off, I was extremely underwhelmed by these headphones. Extremely as in outrageously. Think about the surprise and amazement people experience when reviewing headphones that they feel are really good and their experience when they put the headphones on for the first time. Now take that level of excitement and surprise and turn it into disappointment instead of satisfaction. "For $500 this is what it sounds like?!" That was the kind of thought that was running through my head. I didn't think they sounded much like what a lot of the reviews said. They certainly didn't sound like $500 on my head.
You want too much, but you don't think that you do, nor do you have the life experience to understand that you want too much.
You are bass obsessed as most young people are.
More bass==better sound quality, less bass==poor sound quality.
This is an age-related value, and nothing will fix it.
You don't appreciate subtley, soundstage, nuance, or fine detail - I don't even think you understand what those concepts mean and how they manifest when comparing audio components. Certainly your review displayed no awareness of them. Those qualities are ones that the 500 has.
You liked the M50's and thought that something that cost 3X their price would be the same SQ, but 3x more of what they offer. The 50's are basshead cans, so you are looking for skull rattling bass.
I will be honest - I hold a low opinion of bass head addicts who equate massive bass with a high quality headphone, so the fact that you are 17, ask the world, don't appreciate the finer qualities of a good headphone, want MOAR BASSSS, and want excitement - it's just a review that reminds me that the opinions of a 17 year old are something that I ignore when shopping for and comparing fine audio components.
The fact that you do not like the 500 is a plus for me - it reinforces my opinion that picking up this d/c can on the market would be a wise choice for me as anything that a 17 year old child dislikes so much would be well suited to an adult. That they are now available at a discount is a plus.
I suggest you read the basshead thread. Their values seem more in line with yours.
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