[khaine1711]

Car analogy doesn't work with audio. Expensive cars give you the luxury factor, while functionality is pretty much the same as cheaper car. In audio world, better transducer is much better in functionality (sound quality). That's why people usually go for the most expensive headphone.
 
To be honest, if you blow 3500 USD on dac/amp for a He-500, it will still sound worse (technically) than a 007 + KGSS and a 700 usd dac. Now I'm not saying the he500 isn't enjoyable - but if price/performance is your highest priority, it's better to go for the most expensive headphone you can afford (and like).
 
The point is not about potential. The point is given a same fixed budget, high end headphones, even when modestly amped, will most of the time sound better than a lower end headphone paired with an expensive amp. If you are budget-concious and want the best for the money ---> transducer is that way.
 
Now there are exceptions of course, for example the Hd600 scales sky high too, despite the deceptive price tag. But you're still going to get better bang for bucks with a Hd800 + mstage than a Hd600 + 1k amps. Also I wouldn't recommend the Mstage for orthos, if you're going budget with orthos, used speaker amp is where it's at.
 
But hey, it won't be called a journey if on day 1 you end up with a 009 + BHSE 

 

[hifimanrookie]

I totally get what you're saying, but it's the same thing with everything in life.  Some people don't think it's worth the extra expense for the gain.  If I could afford to have the best of everything, I would do it, but I don't make that much money.  I've heard of people with $20k home theater setups who live in a $500/month apartment.  A lot of people think that's dumb.  I just see it as a different priority.  Some people don't care about their living space but care about their sound.  Likewise, some people don't think it's worth spending $600 or whatever on an amp even though it does sound better because the gain isn't enough to justify the added expense.  

With this i totally agree with u..its always what priorities u consider most important..i also know a guy who has a normal salary..drives a prius..has a normal 700 a month appartment but has 2 'oh my god' beautiful pannerai watches, 4 rolexes and one being an twotone limited edition daytona and some other exotic watches... I think all worth more then my 'a little above regular' car.. So for him thats heaven...so i understand what ur saying....its all about what u can and want to pay.

But i believe in balance...i can affort a stax sr009...but buying an 5000usd amp to go with it is to much..so i stick to lesser phones and amps to make them sound at their best...for me its not about priorities..its about balance..but as u said and i trully respect that opinion...for others its all about priorities...

Around oktober i will be selling my 337 as my new amp will take around 32weeks to be made..so if anyone is looking for a excellent sounding amp with the he500 for a good price then he has to keep an eye on headfi..

 

[hifimanrookie]

Car analogy doesn't work with audio. Expensive cars give you the luxury factor, while functionality is pretty much the same as cheaper car. In audio world, better transducer is much better in functionality (sound quality). That's why people usually go for the most expensive headphone.


To be honest, if you blow 3500 USD on dac/amp for a He-500, it will still sound worse (technically) than a 007 + KGSS and a 700 usd dac. Now I'm not saying the he500 isn't enjoyable - but if price/performance is your highest priority, it's better to go for the most expensive headphone you can afford (and like).

The point is not about potential. The point is given a same fixed budget, high end headphones, even when modestly amped, will most of the time sound better than a lower end headphone paired with an expensive amp. If you are budget-concious and want the best for the money ---> transducer is that way.

Now there are exceptions of course, for example the Hd600 scales sky high too, despite the deceptive price tag. But you're still going to get better bang for bucks with a Hd800 + mstage than a Hd600 + 1k amps. Also I wouldn't recommend the Mstage for orthos, if you're going budget with orthos, used speaker amp is where it's at.

But hey, it won't be called a journey if on day 1 you end up with a 009 + BHSE 

I. Understand what ur trying to say..and i respect that..but u cant say that the amp i am getting (a custommade one off Blue Circle Audio NSL headphone amp with dc509 dac inside same housing and the transformer in a seperated housing pumping out 5w at 50ohm) will be worse sounding (technically) then a sr007,kgss with a 700 dac...as u didnt hear it yet....i dont know it yet also.

by the way this amp is going to be made to be able to drive a he6 or a new topmodel of hifiman thats coming..so this amp is not only made for my he500...

I dont know if ur going to the meet in oktober..and i dont know if my amp will be ready by then..but if he is and ur there..then i am more then happy to show u that a good balanced rig CAN be better then a higher end phone with bad amping....but as one person said here..its all bout priorities...for me i believe in balance...like a car..u can have a 500 hp v8..but on the track a track tuned light 400hp lotus can do circles around it..as its completely balanced..one goal..attack corners at the highest speed possible and survive that..that standard 500hp v8 will only burn rubber in corners....but enough bout cars...

I know budget is an important matter here..am not rich also..i work hard for my money...but i guess this debate will never end...as its so personal...peace to ya all

 

[khaine1711]

Headphone only scales so much so ... It's like no matter how much money you throw at the Hd800, it isn't going to be better than the 009. You will definitely enjoy your investment. It's just strictly technical performance that I'm referring to here.
 
Now I haven't heard the 007mk1, but even the usually criticized 007mk2.5 is technically above my He-6, and that's with just the bundled amp that Stax sells it with. I just happen to like the He-6 sound sig more than the 007 to keep the setup (and the ability to play with lots of speaker amp too!). No amps/dacs combo can bridge the technical gap between tranducers - it pains me (and my wallet) to accept that. 
 
Yes money matters, and we're mostly paying for the journey. I usually gave rational recommendations, but personally I'm doing exactly the opposite (Lampizator/Eximus DP1 + huge ass amp + He-6, instead of going straight for the 009). I'm sure I'm not getting the best performance for the money (compared to say even the humble 009 +323s) but I'm happy with the experience and journey 

 
Like I said it would not be a fun journey if you got end game rig on day 1. Only by moving (slowly) up the ladder can we appreciate the improvements of each upgrade (while our wallet screams in utmost agony 

)

 

[nicholars]

Hifimanrookie... Objectively I think your theory is wrong. You are far better off getting the best headphones you can afford and then buying a good amp/dac (not 5x the price of the headphones!)  Once you are at the level of "good amp/dac" the differences are going to be a lot smaller than between high end headphones. The headphone is the weakpoint in terms of distortion etc. figures by a massive margin compared to dacs/amps The money is best spent on the best headphones you can afford and then the best dac/amp you can afford but in that order.

 

[M-13]

I think you could have fit a few more schiit puns in there.

:rolleyes:

 

[nicholars]

Deleted for mods

 

[M-13]

Quote:

Deleted for mods

behave bad boy

 

[Lohb]

Quote:

I've only had the HE500s for a couple of days, but even with the pleathers, I think they sound significantly better than the HE400s.  I'm listening on the ODAC/O2, which supposedly isn't even ideal.  I'm interested to see how the sound signature changes once I switch to the velours.  
 
I agree with another poster who said he didn't see how someone could like the HE400s better.  The only thing that the HE400s do better is bass (and that's arguable), but the improvement in mids/highs on the HE500 greatly outweigh the supposed inferiority of the HE500's bass.

Then can't the 500's be EQ'd up in the L.F. exactly to match the 400's bass and get the best of both worlds ?

 

[h4mm3r 0f th0r]

Quote:

Hifimanrookie... Objectively I think your theory is wrong. You are far better off getting the best headphones you can afford and then buying a good amp/dac (not 5x the price of the headphones!)  Once you are at the level of "good amp/dac" the differences are going to be a lot smaller than between high end headphones. The headphone is the weakpoint in terms of distortion etc. figures by a massive margin compared to dacs/amps The money is best spent on the best headphones you can afford and then the best dac/amp you can afford but in that order.

i would say a good idea would be to get a headphone and amp and dac combo of the same amount.... so for he500 your amp and dac combo should be around atleast a 700$ price range ... and in that i think the amp would matter even more than the dac so a cheaper dac like the odac won't be that bad if you can get a really powerful enough amp for he500... i am using nfb 11.32 which is half the price of the he500(and now even cheaper at 300usd) but has a really great dac and a powerful enough amp(2.7W into the headphones on high gain)...

 

[spark3]

I have been thinking of upgrading my M Stage amp with a more neutral sounding amp, I was thinking of the Corda Jazz. Would that be an upgrade and go well with the HE500? or does anyone else have other suggestions, my budget is around £300.

 

[dryvadeum]

Then can't the 500's be EQ'd up in the L.F. exactly to match the 400's bass and get the best of both worlds ?

Oh yeah, you can also eq a pair of beats pros to sound virtually the same as a pair of LCD's too.

 

[GREQ]

.

 

[roadcykler]

Why is it so hard for some folks to understand that a higher price tag does not equal better quality or better sound? Look no further than the Lexicon re-badged Oppo player as an example. I'd be willing to bet the cost of the Lexicon that anyone who may have compared the 2 before finding out they were the same player, would have said the Lexicon sounded better, including most of you here.
 
I'd like to see a study of why most humans equate higher costs with being better nearly 100% of the time. People are so fascinating yet frustrating.  

 

[hifimanrookie]

Why is it so hard for some folks to understand that a higher price tag does not equal better quality or better sound? Look no further than the Lexicon re-badged Oppo player as an example. I'd be willing to bet the cost of the Lexicon that anyone who may have compared the 2 before finding out they were the same player, would have said the Lexicon sounded better, including most of you here.

I'd like to see a study of why most humans equate higher costs with being better nearly 100% of the time. People are so fascinating yet frustrating.  

No one is saying more money means better sound..i myself own an excellent oppo product and i love it!.. Ithink its just about investing inito the perfect balance in ur rig..having a 1200 headphone and then using a 150 budget amp to drive it is in my eyes almost jimpossible to get that special synergy...u dont need to spend multi 1000 to get good sound out of any phone (except maybe the he6 or sr007/009)... If someone is willing to spend more then rationally acceptive..then its his/her choice..some people amoung my friends even say that my amp (dv337 with 5998 tubes) is ludacris to spend on an amp...but they do own multi thousand watches..or drive a an expensive two seater..first one only shows time..a 100 watchdoes the same..second is so small u cant even go on holiday with is with luggage...a vw golf gti does same and is much cheaper and probably more reliable also..in my eyes its not spending as much money as u can but to get ur phone to sound as best it can be...i found out myself that investing a bit more does improve the listening experience..IF U GET THAT RIGHT balance..spending money on expensive stuff just to own it because its expensive is ofcourse stupid..

I come from a matrix mstage..and i tell u..that amp is even worth double his price...and if i didnt find my recent amp i probably had him still...peace out.