[Lurk650]

Finally got the rings to put the BW Sheepskin Rounds on

 

[Lurk650]

Clarity seems to have increased as well as bass response slightly so it sounds a lot more full. This is one of my favorite songs with the 400i, I have the whole Witcher 3 album in FLAC since it came with the game

 

[Xander2017]

What pads do the new 400i come with, focus or focus A?

Thanks for any help.

 

[hikaru12]

What pads do the new 400i come with, focus or focus A?

Thanks for any help.

Focus, Focus A came with the 560s. You can buy the Focus A separately.

 

[DavidA]

What pads do the new 400i come with, focus or focus A?

Thanks for any help.

Focus, Focus A came with the 560s. You can buy the Focus A separately.

Only the original pre-order HE560 came with the Focus-A IIRC while the HE400i always came with the Focus.

 

[Xander2017]

Thanks to both of you for taking the time to reply.

 

[439598]

Did anyone otice a big change in the sound after use/burn-in?

I burned in overnight with pink noise and they havent been the same since. initially I didnt like the change but thats just because its a lot different, highs sound more distant and the sparkle is gone... this is the worst part. they opened up a lot with a deeper SS and better seperation, mids are fuller smoother and more detailed, bass is fuller but with less dynamics... they sounda alot like hd650s.

mostly improvement but I miss that wicked exciting treble... I have the 650s for when I want something warm

Im curious if this is their true sound that would have eventually came out with normal use (ive only had them a couple weeks), hifiman does suggest they need 150 hours before they perform optimally

 

[Paradoxus]

@Paradoxus please excuse me, some babble and personal opinions, so do take these with grains of salt:

HD650 and electronic music after the 400i will be a let down. First of all, due to the dynamic driver, bass will be seriously rolled off, (up until where you can hear it - the midbass hump and with most non-electronic music, it'll have a nice, pleasant and analogue-sounding - speaker-like presentation to it, with distortion - you can forget about EQing the lowest part as the driver won't take it happily, and the sub-bass will just not be there anyways.) The driver is just too slow, and the impulse response unsuited for the electronic 'buzz', in my opinion.

Also, there's a difference to the experience with planar and dynamic driver sound/bass, due to how the sound is being technically generated; how you perceive the palpability/tactility of the air waves. Perhaps think about it mentally/visually: a small cone directing the airwaves towards your ear vs. a larger plane emanating the waves from?

There's various types of words to describe the difference, but my English isn't good enough for that, as I often find the words contradicting themselves, or you could ambiguously apply them to either type of driver, just with a difference in the presentation.

But perhaps words like "kick", "punch", "jab" - the ones with an edgier type to the bass, are often used with dynamic drivers, (with or without the midbass hump, but the midbass hump does aid in the impression of 'general feeling' of elevated bass. Basshead cannons often have exaggerated mid-bass, and it might be good enough for some genres of electronic music).
Planar bass might be described with looser-sounding words, 'rumble', 'face-melting', it's generally speaking more enveloping, and more textured (due to the low distortion values, but there's some dynamic driver exceptions, and the driver technology has advanced in the past few years); and even though I describe those words with planars as 'looser-sounding', well implemented planar bass is exactly the opposite of 'loose-sounding' per se, if you catch my drift. It'll generally be that the dynamic driver bass will be 'loose', 'sloppy' or 'boomier'.
Obviously the drivers vary, impulse responses vary, and the bass can be described as tight and controlled with either type of driver, there's 'slam' or 'snap' to be found with either, but the general differences still apply; the presentation is just a bit different.

It's interesting that you didn't find the TH900 bass satisfying: it's actually the only (closed) dynamic driver headphone I've heard, which I could enjoy after hearing higher end planars' bass, to suit my personal tastes. The new AH-D7200 or perhaps Eikon might fit the bill, but haven't heard them (not to mention HP-3, but that's seriously under-reviewed and lacking impressions).

If I were you:

• I'd skip open-back dynamic driver cans entirely.
• I'd try the closed-back dynamic driver bass cannons (like the TH900 again, perhaps E-MU Teaks, perhaps the ZMF offerings) if they might tickle your basshead bones. Perhaps wouldn't put too much effort in other 'hardest hitting basshead'-cans, if you want to stay in the audiophile realm, but then again, I haven't heard enough from that specific thread to confirm my bias Don't know why, but the Sennheiser/beyerdynamic options have never been my cup of tea, albeit haven't heard the t5p modded.
  
• Lastly, but not least: stick with the planars (which seem to be my personal preference), as they're generally the only cans without rolled off sub-bass, which I think is essential for electronic music, not to mention the quickness of the drivers along with almost unnatural attack/decay properties, once again, generally speaking.

There's a type of thinness to the general sound in the current HiFiMAN lineup (excl. the Susvara), perhaps the older ones might have a more meatier sound - but with other cons, you'd have to buy them used/QC/amping etc. issues. IMO Mrspeakers' offerings do suffer from the same 'thinness', albeit haven't tried to EQ them - they are ridicilously good headphones. Also, the HEK/HEX might be a bit too laid-back for electronic music as well.
Audeze is a safe bet, if you want some meat with the bones in the presentation, especially the LCD-X/XC for electronic music, being the 'least' warm of their offerings. But the comfort might be a deal-breaker for some people. And they're not perfect either, there might be slight tonality issues, and there's similar unreliability issues as with HFM, but then again, Audezes can be had for "relatively" cheap, they're widely available.
AB-1266 is my personal holy grail.
Kennerton Tror prototype was quite lovely as well, albeit bested by Susvara. But those prices are quite insane.
I wonder how Diana fares, or Audezes LCD-2C/MX-4, and haven't heard the M1060 modded yet (probably like a poor mans' LCD-2?). I should probably read up on AR-H1. That's probably all the examples I can think of now

Reminder: as you have noted, the 400i does handle EQ rather well, hence why it works so great with the XBass on; not all cans can do that.

And yeah, once again YMMV. And sorry about the ridiculous amount of price differences in the suggestions, these are just my personal 'if I had the money to splurge on everything'-observations

And forgot to mention, @Paradoxus the LCD-2 latest driver bass-thingie, it's very, greatly exaggerated. They have a very meaty presentation to the sound.
Forgot Z1R for obvious reasons, personally I'd skip it - but don't want to get into an argument about that, and forgot Auteur as I haven't been up to date on the impressions/no chance to hear it here that easily

Thanks for taking the time to reply! One thing i never considered was how well the HE400i can be EQ-ed. I can't really remember now exactly how the bass of the TH900 was, but i do recall that i expected more -- especially since these are considered end-game bass. Maybe my expectations just need to be matched.

I think the safest next step would be the Audezes. Either the X/XC or 2s.

@Paradoxus , I have to agree with @drwlf that your choices are quite slim since most bass-head headphones usually have recessed mids but you might try the HE560 since it does take EQ and goes deeper than the HE400i but since it lacks the mid-bass hump it can sound bass lite with some tracks.

The TH-900 is a bit too "V" shaped to me but with some mods (Lawton driver damping mod) it can be changed into a bass-head headphone with a decent mid-range.

You might also want to try some attenuation rings in the ear pads of the HE400i to tune the bass. Simple, free and easy:

made from heavy card stock or hanging folder, you can try it with just one or two to see what you like

I'll have another listen to the HE560, but am generally of the view that it will hardly be an upgrade, especially in terms of bass.

I never thought to add the attenuation rings for the HE400i! I know this is regularly discussed with regards to the x00. Definitely worth a go.

 

[DavidA]

@Paradoxus, when I first heard the HE560 I was WTH, bass seemed like it was better on the HE400i but after trying the HE560 on some other tracks and finding a better matched amp the bass of the HE560 goes much lower, better detailed and has no mid-bass hump to muddy up the lower mids. If you go back a few pages I posted some songs and while they are so-so YouTube tracks the bass of the tracks are presented very differently on the HE400i and HE560 but the only way to really notice it is to actually hear both at the same time. You could also try some bass test tones and you will notice the HE560 does go lower and has more impact/weight than the HE400i.

I can understand that some say the HE560 is not much of an upgrade from the HE400i but I think it has a lot to do with the supporting gear that is used and to me there is a very noticeable difference between the HE400i and HE560 and its not just the bass but also the extension/smoothness of the highs, better sound stage and imaging and more balanced sound signature to me but like always YMMV since this is subjective.

 

[koover]

Completely off topic, but one thing I've noticed with the 400i, to get the most bass extension possible, it's all cup position on your ears and pad swap. As many stated, I opted for the BW angled pleather and they make a huge difference. Well of course, source, amp, music, volume, etc. play a role too of course. LOL.....but?...........

Sliding my ear position to the back of the cups while ever so slightly angling the cups "out" away from your ears just a tad really opens these up dramatically. I mean it's a completely different SS with much more extended bass giving it an even more open stage. The entire frame and cups do angle out quite nicely and basically stay in position. I was just messing around with it and sure sh!+ enough, I pulled the cups slightly away from my ears (and actually breaking the seal from your ears) and the sound completely changed for the better. They're like more of an opened open set of HP.

 

[Paradoxus]

@Paradoxus, when I first heard the HE560 I was WTH, bass seemed like it was better on the HE400i but after trying the HE560 on some other tracks and finding a better matched amp the bass of the HE560 goes much lower, better detailed and has no mid-bass hump to muddy up the lower mids. If you go back a few pages I posted some songs and while they are so-so YouTube tracks the bass of the tracks are presented very differently on the HE400i and HE560 but the only way to really notice it is to actually hear both at the same time. You could also try some bass test tones and you will notice the HE560 does go lower and has more impact/weight than the HE400i.

I can understand that some say the HE560 is not much of an upgrade from the HE400i but I think it has a lot to do with the supporting gear that is used and to me there is a very noticeable difference between the HE400i and HE560 and its not just the bass but also the extension/smoothness of the highs, better sound stage and imaging and more balanced sound signature to me but like always YMMV since this is subjective.

That was my first reaction when I heard the HE560 as well. How do you think the HE560 scales with gear as compared to the HE400i? I would actually prefer something harder to drive and that scales well as I feel the HE400i doesnt scale much, and I could probably get better music with another can paired with my ifi stack.

 

[DavidA]

That was my first reaction when I heard the HE560 as well. How do you think the HE560 scales with gear as compared to the HE400i? I would actually prefer something harder to drive and that scales well as I feel the HE400i doesnt scale much, and I could probably get better music with another can paired with my ifi stack.

I feel that the HE560 does scale with better gear but have not tested this much but to me it does scale more than the HE400i. Since everyone's definition of "scale" is different only the individual can really say how much.
FWIW the amps I've tried with both the HE560 and HE400i are: Liquid Glass, Lyr2, HA-501, Liquid Carbon, Asgard2, DarkStar, MHA-100, Magni2uber, O2, Hugo, Mojo and a few others that I can't remember.

 

[koover]

I feel that the HE560 does scale with better gear but have not tested this much but to me it does scale more than the HE400i. Since everyone's definition of "scale" is different only the individual can really say how much.
FWIW the amps I've tried with both the HE560 and HE400i are: Liquid Glass, Lyr2, HA-501, Liquid Carbon, Asgard2, DarkStar, MHA-100, Magni2uber, O2, Hugo, Mojo and a few others that I can't remember.

And which amps did you feel scaled best with the 400i? Out of everything you've listed, I've only heard Lyr2, M2U and an Asgard2. Of course all Schiit amps. I own the Lyr2 (have an extensive amount of tubes to roll) so obviously I'm interested how the 400i scaled with this amp and if the tubes you rolled made any significant change for the better.

 

[DavidA]

And which amps did you feel scaled best with the 400i? Out of everything you've listed, I've only heard Lyr2, M2U and an Asgard2. Of course all Schiit amps. I own the Lyr2 (have an extensive amount of tubes to roll) so obviously I'm interested how the 400i scaled with this amp and if the tubes you rolled made any significant change for the better.

The HE400i sounded best to me on the DarkStar and Liquid Glass and only because these amps just gave the best sound stage and very clear resolution/details to me but to some it might also be considered not as musical or too analytical. Of the 3 amps that you have heard the Lyr2 would be the best but it also depends on the tubes in use, preferably slightly warmer like Amperex SQ/PQ or similar. I think the headphone output of my UD-301 actually sounds better to me over the Lyr2 since it gives a fuller more musical presentation to me over the Lyr2 no matter what tubes I use but this is just my preference.

 

[Slim1970]

@Paradoxus, when I first heard the HE560 I was WTH, bass seemed like it was better on the HE400i but after trying the HE560 on some other tracks and finding a better matched amp the bass of the HE560 goes much lower, better detailed and has no mid-bass hump to muddy up the lower mids. If you go back a few pages I posted some songs and while they are so-so YouTube tracks the bass of the tracks are presented very differently on the HE400i and HE560 but the only way to really notice it is to actually hear both at the same time. You could also try some bass test tones and you will notice the HE560 does go lower and has more impact/weight than the HE400i.

I can understand that some say the HE560 is not much of an upgrade from the HE400i but I think it has a lot to do with the supporting gear that is used and to me there is a very noticeable difference between the HE400i and HE560 and its not just the bass but also the extension/smoothness of the highs, better sound stage and imaging and more balanced sound signature to me but like always YMMV since this is subjective.

I agree with @DavidA on this this one. I just sold my HE400i’s in favor of the HE560’s. To my ears the HE560’s has better bass extension, goes deeper and has more impact than the HE400i’s. It’s really noticeable on bass heavy tracks. But sound is subjective and we all hear differently.