[fjrabon]

  The only time you may need more headroom from your amplifier (thinking of the Asgard 2) is if you like fairly loud playback levels as I typically do (shorter listening sessions for me) and you're playing older masters that are very dynamic and quiet. I had an Asgard 2 with my HE 560 and I wasn't comfortable having it full volume when listening to older material. With the HE 560 even contemporary music required the volume at 1 - 2pm on the volume dial for me to get my preferred listening levels. Yes I know, it is dangerous to listen to high playback levels, but I have done it my entire life and somehow seem to do well with it and my hearing acuity at last test at an audiologist office was well within the normal range for my age.
 
Still, I completely agree all this talk about needing plenty of extra power that isn't being used doesn't seem to be based in fact at all. There are times when it might make sense to have extra headroom, but unless you have your amp pumping at max all the time more power is not going to provide anything. I would rather have a stable power supply architecture that delivered power rock solid and stable even if it didn't deliver whopping levels of clout.

right, I hope that I made that clear enough, that there are cases where you would need more power (less efficient headphones and louder listening).  But I was specifically responding to the "its not about volume" claim as to the benefits of the H10 having more power.  The HE560 is also much more difficult to drive than the HE400i.  If somebody were asking me about the HE560 + Asgard, I'd say "unless you listen extremely loudly you're okay with 1000mW."  You would probably admit you listen extremely loudly, and thus may need something a bit more powerful.  Asgard2 and HE560 gets you to peak SPL of 119 dB before clipping.  For extremely dynamic music, that means you could have an average listening level of 95 or so before clipping became a real worry.  95 is crazy loud, yes, but some people do listen that loudly as their average level.  That's quite different though from the HE400i, which would require an average listening level in worst case scenario dynamic music of 105dB, ie louder than most rock concerts (and twice as loud as the 95dB we just talked about).  When people quote mW levels and say "it's not about the volume, it's about the quality" they simply are misleading people.   Traditionally more powerful amps were better quality amps all around, so maybe that is what has lead people to this belief, because the best amps theyve ever heard were extremely high powered.  But mW specs only tell you how loud they will make a headphone at peak before clipping.  Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[iScream]

Did one of you guys grab that Asgard 2 from the classifieds today while I was screwing around trying to decide what to do?

 

[Sonic Defender]

 
right, I hope that I made that clear enough, that there are cases where you would need more power (less efficient headphones and louder listening).  

Yes, you were very clear, and I was actually in complete agreement with you. Sorry if it seemed that I was ignoring the point you made, I was just illustrating it further with my experience. I always like your posts as you make sure you know what you are talking about before you post, and it seems to me that you have a very strong grasp of the fundamentals.

 

[Sonic Defender]

  Did one of you guys grab that Asgard 2 from the classifieds today while I was screwing around trying to decide what to do?

Even though you are in the US I would suggest you once and a while pop into a Canadian classified site for audio called canuckaudiomart.com. Really good place and I see Schiit gear fairly frequently. With the Canadian dollar being so low it must be quite a good purchasing option and everybody on the site takes PayPal. I have bought and sold on it quite a bit and I find I rarely need to sell through here anymore as canuckaudiomart is very active. It is also very audiophile in terms of the caliber, so if you want to spend stupid money on esoteric gear you will also find it there. I think it is worth checking out, maybe there is an Asgard 2 up now for all I know?

 

[fjrabon]

Please may I ask which (400i vs PM3) has least sibilance as i am ultra 'ssssssss' sound sensitive. Even the Fidelio X2 are painful.
In the UK both headphones has the same end user price of £350-359.

the PM3 would be less sibilant.  I don't personally find the 400i sibilant, but some might.  I cant imagine anybody ever finding the PM3 sibilant.

 

[shuto77]

Please may I ask which (400i vs PM3) has least sibilance as i am ultra 'ssssssss' sound sensitive. Even the Fidelio X2 are painful.
In the UK both headphones has the same end user price of £350-359.

 
I'm curious what sources you're using. I had the X2 for several months, and now the HE-400i. If you're using low-bitrate mp3 files (128kb or 92kb), you may be hearing some compression artifacting going on. I'm super sensitive to that, myself. I didn't have any issues with sibilance on these. 

 

[Soundizer]

Please may I ask which (400i vs PM3) has least sibilance as i am ultra 'ssssssss' sound sensitive. Even the Fidelio X2 are painful.

In the UK both headphones has the same end user price of £350-359.

I'm curious what sources you're using. I had the X2 for several months, and now the HE-400i. If you're using low-bitrate mp3 files (128kb or 92kb), you may be hearing some compression artifacting going on. I'm super sensitive to that, myself. I didn't have any issues with sibilance on these. 

I am only using good quality source (Apple lossless ripped CD's) and also HD Movie downloads which are super good sound.
The Fidelio X2 has awful treble peak for young people or those with good sensitivity to higher frequency trebles. IT CAUSES ME PAIN. I DO NOT WANT TO OTHERWISE RETURN THEM AS LOVE EVERYTHING ELSE ABOUT THEM.
For older people and those not so strong in higher frequency hearing they might actually like this uplift.
Philips did audition the change when tuning the X2's but should have included a wider age range i am guessing.


The below extract is from an online review:
"Note that we humans lose our high frequency hearing as we grow old and as I’m not yet a grey fox my high frequency hearing is still ship shape which makes me sensitive to artificially elevated highs commonly done by aging mastering engineers.

The artificial tizzyness in the treble isn’t ear piercingly harsh such as Beyerdynamic T1, Fostex TH600 or Fostex TH900, but it creates a hard edge on some recordings’ female vocals.

The pro of a high frequency boost like this is better detail retrieval. However, boosting the highs to compensate for a driver’s lack of high end detail is not a good choice as it makes the headphones sound less natural.

With electronica, dubstep, rock and instrumental tunes this «flaw» can be quite pleasing, but for compressed pop tracks with female vocals it’s not a good choice of tuning for young people with good high frequency hearing. However, I would not say that the Fidelio X2’s are fatiguing at all. They’re wonderful for long listening session despite all of the above.

Battle artificial treble with parametric EQ?
A tip for those inclined to use DSP to raise the bar of their listening experience: The solution for the X2 was to use a parametric equalizer and lower 9.5kHz by -4dB and use a Q of 1.8. After that they sounded as good and natural as X1 in the treble, but with the superior bass of the X2.""Note that we humans lose our high frequency hearing as we grow old and as I’m not yet a grey fox my high frequency hearing is still ship shape which makes me sensitive to artificially elevated highs commonly done by aging mastering engineers."

 

[swspiers]

 
  Traditionally more powerful amps were better quality amps all around, so maybe that is what has lead people to this belief, because the best amps theyve ever heard were extremely high powered.  But mW specs only tell you how loud they will make a headphone at peak before clipping.  Nothing more, nothing less.

This! IMHO, of course

 

[Sonic Defender]

Seriously, the PM3 are not at all bright, and even young ears have never described them that way. If you can't try before you buy you need to take a chance, but it is a pretty safe bet. Ideally the seller has a return policy. I've heard that Amazon has great return policies. The PM3 is not bright.

 

[iScream]

One of the worst songs I've heard lately for making sibilance stand out is Sweet Jane by Cowboy Junkies.  You can hear just the slightest amount when she actually says sweet jane in the song.  But I don't really think the headphones are creating anything that isn't in the recording.
 
EDIT:  I'm just listening over Spotify premium high quality streaming.

 

[iScream]

  Even though you are in the US I would suggest you once and a while pop into a Canadian classified site for audio called canuckaudiomart.com. Really good place and I see Schiit gear fairly frequently. With the Canadian dollar being so low it must be quite a good purchasing option and everybody on the site takes PayPal. I have bought and sold on it quite a bit and I find I rarely need to sell through here anymore as canuckaudiomart is very active. It is also very audiophile in terms of the caliber, so if you want to spend stupid money on esoteric gear you will also find it there. I think it is worth checking out, maybe there is an Asgard 2 up now for all I know?

 
I'll have to check it out sometime.  I finally decided the 5 year warranty and not having to wait for someone to post another unit for sale was enough to buy new.  Just placed the order with Schiit a minute ago.

 

[rwscpa]

I have the Magni2 Uber/Modi2 Uber stack and I think they sound fantastic with all my headphones which includes the 400i and the HE--560. 

 

[Sonic Defender]

   
I'll have to check it out sometime.  I finally decided the 5 year warranty and not having to wait for someone to post another unit for sale was enough to buy new.  Just placed the order with Schiit a minute ago.

Not a bad call at all. I purchased in the past my Valhalla and Asgard 2 from Schiit directly.

 

[Degenerator9000]

Just got my pair in this morning and I've been using them for about 6-8h now, looking like my DT880s are getting shelved barring some very specific cases smh

 

[Degenerator9000]

The only thing I can for sure give the dt880s so far is soundstage, but the he400is take imaging and separation pretty easily.

Kind of disappointing lmao. Was hoping I'd like the beyers more so I could save some money and send these back.