[fjrabon]

You have a great HF collection , but poor dac/amp why so.

DAC will have absolutely nothing to do with not hearing a channel imbalance. Amp theoretically could, but channel imbalance in amps is almost never frequency variable.

To answer the question as to why he may have never noticed the channel imbalance before (be it ears or equipment) people drastically overestimate the amount of music that resides above 10kHz. It would mostly present itself in normal listening as a decrease in imaging accuracy. 2kHz you'd notice immediately. It's not unusual for opposite drivers to be slightly unmatched at different frequencies, but usually planars are better in this regard than dynamics. I'll be interested to see if the problem was isolated to the HE400i. It could also potentially be a cable issue. Or even a connection quality issue.

 

[mysticstryk]

yea, this one

look, maybe the inability to tell the differences is his fault (not good enough hearing).
but i feel that in DACs Diminishing Returns kicks in really early in the price range.
in AMPs its a different story and there is almost always a room for improvement.

my philosophy is to get a setup that is as neutral and transparent as possible so the headphones themselves will determine the sound signature.
also, that way you can have a very versatile setup that will work with any HPs and will allow you to truly test and feel your headphones.

I agree and its not just Z that has trouble with hearing a difference. I would have to spend $600+ to get a real improvement in dac performance. As for the amp, funnily enough I'm selling it and buying an Asgard 2 or Polaris. Even then, I don't expect much of a noticeable difference between my magni and these two.

We warn people of diminishing returns a lot sometimes and it absolutely holds true. For example, my LCD-2 was a very mild improvement over my hd650, while costing more than 3x the money. I'd even put it on the same level as my 400i, which is half the cost.

I'll upgrade my dac when I can get a really good and noticeable improvement without having to spend half a grand or more. As for my amp, the Asgard 2 will probably be end game, unless for some reason I acquire an HE-6.

 

[bharat2580]

I agree and its not just Z that has trouble with hearing a difference. I would have to spend $600+ to get a real improvement in dac performance. As for the amp, funnily enough I'm selling it and buying an Asgard 2 or Polaris. Even then, I don't expect much of a noticeable difference between my magni and these two.

We warn people of diminishing returns a lot sometimes and it absolutely holds true. For example, my LCD-2 was a very mild improvement over my hd650, while costing more than 3x the money. I'd even put it on the same level as my 400i, which is half the cost.

I'll upgrade my dac when I can get a really good and noticeable improvement without having to spend half a grand or more. As for my amp, the Asgard 2 will probably be end game, unless for some reason I acquire an HE-6.

that true when it comes to dacs the improvement is really only in reducing the noise, there is nothing getting added in the digital stream which could potentially change the sound signature.
 
I did a A/B test on my DX90 and the Macbook retina and another DAC a few days ago, the difference was the noise reduction in the sound with the DX90, not only the background noise but also some harmonics, the sound from the macbook pro was like it has some veil just like the hd650s reputation, just for the context.
 
But thats it, and yes you can get at 95 % level really soon and from then on its not worth as per price/performance, yet 5% or more is a lot of change for someone already at the 95% mark and listening to that for years for him the change would be less but there.
 
The point is there is a great amount of difference in the dacs due to the parameters like noise,accuracy,resolution implementation, but believe me the difference is there and its not miniscule.
 
you actually need a track you are familiar with, still the issue is the mind only concentrates on the track and not the noise, which is the improvement actually from a better dac.
When you test a dac look for the overall picture and not the continuing stream, then i believe a difference would come along.

 

[bharat2580]

I agree and its not just Z that has trouble with hearing a difference. I would have to spend $600+ to get a real improvement in dac performance. As for the amp, funnily enough I'm selling it and buying an Asgard 2 or Polaris. Even then, I don't expect much of a noticeable difference between my magni and these two.

We warn people of diminishing returns a lot sometimes and it absolutely holds true. For example, my LCD-2 was a very mild improvement over my hd650, while costing more than 3x the money. I'd even put it on the same level as my 400i, which is half the cost.

I'll upgrade my dac when I can get a really good and noticeable improvement without having to spend half a grand or more. As for my amp, the Asgard 2 will probably be end game, unless for some reason I acquire an HE-6.

I believe if you use a fast and powerful solid state with the LCD you can clearly see the advancements over the hd650, something like the liquid carbon,burson soloist,gustard h10,the senss. hdva600 itself.
 
and the hd650 is really different but is great with a tube amp which is warm and laid back , crack , ld and something on the same footprint.
 
and for all these you don't need a dac synergy, just something with a good noise and dynamic performance. though you might benefit from a brighter and something with the ESS sabre to go with the hd650 and also the LCD and something a bit smoother like a DAC 19 or a gumby then you are good with the bright ones like the AKG or the hd800,hifiman 560 and others.
 
but thats if you are sure to have a setup, I guess you will really enjoy changing your amps and acs.and the improvement will not be only 9/10

 

[sheldaze]

 
You have a great HF collection , but poor dac/amp why so.

I posted a question last week, in a similarly priced headphone thread (TH-X00 = $400, the HE400i can be $300 or $500). At the time, I was using a DAC costing more than $800 and an amplifier costing less than $200. Instead of answering the question, the person said, I needed a better amplifier. Their response made me just about want to puke.
 
We have a guy at our local meet who upgraded to the Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 Uber. He absolutely loves it! The DAC now powered by A/C has improved his signal issues, previously limited by a USB-powered DAC. His amplifier provides a much wider soundstage, with deeper lows and extended highs. It does exactly what he wants it to do. I'm really looking forward to hearing it.
 
Thank you for your 2 posts above and sticking to topic 

 

 

[mysticstryk]

 
I believe if you use a fast and powerful solid state with the LCD you can clearly see the advancements over the hd650, something like the liquid carbon,burson soloist,gustard h10,the senss. hdva600 itself.
 
and the hd650 is really different but is great with a tube amp which is warm and laid back , crack , ld and something on the same footprint.
 
and for all these you don't need a dac synergy, just something with a good noise and dynamic performance. though you might benefit from a brighter and something with the ESS sabre to go with the hd650 and also the LCD and something a bit smoother like a DAC 19 or a gumby then you are good with the bright ones like the AKG or the hd800,hifiman 560 and others.
 
but thats if you are sure to have a setup, I guess you will really enjoy changing your amps and acs.and the improvement will not be only 9/10

 
The Gustard H10 was another I was looking at, as I believe Massdrop frequently has it for $300, but what would that provide me over an Asgard 2?  I'm probably selling the LCD-2 btw.

 

[bharat2580]

   
The Gustard H10 was another I was looking at, as I believe Massdrop frequently has it for $300, but what would that provide me over an Asgard 2?  I'm probably selling the LCD-2 btw.

Much more power, better supply 2 channel, mono design (not sure if asgard has it) op amp rolling, 2700mw in 50 ohm vs 1000,  but its not about the two, i think the asgard should be really good but it is not as powerful as the others, with planers if you have more power (current) you can actually hear the difference the sound is effortless.

 

[bharat2580]

  I posted a question last week, in a similarly priced headphone thread (TH-X00 = $400, the HE400i can be $300 or $500). At the time, I was using a DAC costing more than $800 and an amplifier costing less than $200. Instead of answering the question, the person said, I needed a better amplifier. Their response made me just about want to puke.
 
We have a guy at our local meet who upgraded to the Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 Uber. He absolutely loves it! The DAC now powered by A/C has improved his signal issues, previously limited by a USB-powered DAC. His amplifier provides a much wider soundstage, with deeper lows and extended highs. It does exactly what he wants it to do. I'm really looking forward to hearing it.
 
Thank you for your 2 posts above and sticking to topic 

 

i understand your point, but i was in the dark when i had a not so good amp and dac, so i want to help a fellow headier thats all, no gain for me here.

 

[fjrabon]

 
Much more power, better supply 2 channel, mono design (not sure if asgard has it) op amp rolling, 2700mw in 50 ohm vs 1000,  but its not about the two, i think the asgard should be really good but it is not as powerful as the others, with planers if you have more power (current) you can actually hear the difference the sound is effortless.

having more power makes literally 0 difference unless you are using it.  If you aren't coming close to ever clipping, you absolutely cannot hear more power.  If anything having an amp more powerful than you'd ever need is a very mild negative as it makes volume control more tedious than it needs to be and on some amps pushes you lower in the volume knob range where sometimes channel imbalances can occur in analog volume knobs.
 
The benefit to having 2700mW vs 1000mW is that you can play music more loudly, that's it.  Again, unless you are clipping (and god help you if you are making an asgard clip running a HE400i), there is no "more effortless" aspect to having more available power in an amp.  

 

[mysticstryk]

My main reason for wanting an Asgard 2 over my Magni 2 Uber is the benefits that come with a class A amp.

 

[RERO]

  My main reason for wanting an Asgard 2 over my Magni 2 Uber is the benefits that come with a class A amp.

 
I know nothing about the classes of amplifiers and I'm curious. What are the benefits?

 

[Soundizer]

 


FWIW they respond very well to an EQ boost.  Also, the HE400 have weird treble that prevent me from being able to play them loud enough for them to really be the bass monsters they could be.  I'd almost say just get the OPPO PM3 or NAD HP50 if you're more concerned with bass and don't want to EQ.

I agree, I think the PM3 will be a better bass-head headphone. I use both the 400i and PM3 and I also feel the 400i has a larger soundstage which if I was a home user I want a bigger, more realistic size of the sound. The PM3 are awesome, and exceptional as portables, but for home use only I would feel a need for more size of the sound if that makes sense. For me size is more than simply soundstage, it is also the surface area that feels is being stimulated. I'm not sure exactly how big the 400i drivers are, but accurate or not they seem to play bigger to me than the PM3.

It isn't a massive difference, but given with how high the quality of the bass on the 400i can be it is the more versatile headphone I think. In general I find open headphones more versatile as you greatly reduce if not eliminate cabinet reflections of bass so booming is not really a factor (at least in my experience).

Please may I ask which (400i vs PM3) has least sibilance as i am ultra 'ssssssss' sound sensitive. Even the Fidelio X2 are painful.
In the UK both headphones has the same end user price of £350-359.

 

[Crimguy]

I know nothing about the classes of amplifiers and I'm curious. What are the benefits?

Great explanation below. I learned a couple things reading it:

http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/amplifier/amplifier-classes.html

 

[bharat2580]

   
I know nothing about the classes of amplifiers and I'm curious. What are the benefits?

The class A is not so efficient 35-50% efficiency but one of the best for Audio, that why they get hot because of the heat and losses if you want to get into details you need to study them closely and understand Electronic concepts, gets ,bjts and biasing.
 
in class A the device conducts all the time in B its distributed, so the there is no interruption in the path for class A only gain but lot of power losses in terms of heat, but we don't really care about it in Audio do we

 

[iScream]

 
You have a great HF collection , but poor dac/amp why so.

 
I'm curious if you have actually heard the equipment you are calling poor.  If you have, what specifically about the Modi 2 Uber and or the Magni 2 Uber were substandard?
 
I have a Modi 2 Uber being delivered today.  At least I hope it will still be delivered even though we have snow this morning.
 
Thanks,
Chris