[Billheiser]

  nice review! I can get a used HD600 for about half the price of a new HE-400i so this is a good read for me.
 
But I already have a K701 so which would be a good upgrade or even a complement? 

Thanks.  That would be a very good price for the Senn.  I like both the 400i or 600 over the 701, as either an upgrade or a complement.  I used to have the k702, and I liked its clarity, and comfort, but   sold it to get something with more booty.

 

[Billheiser]

   
Thank you guys for your impressions ! Regarding Valhalla 2, its indeed probably much better choice for driving HD 600 than HE 400i, as according to  http://www.audiobot9000.com/match/hifiman/he-400i/with/schiit/valhalla-2  this amp is certainly not the best partner to drive HE-400i. Did you try HE-400i also with other amps Billheiser ?

Thanks.  I also used Nuforce uDac-2, and Audioquest Dragonfly 1.2.  Both phones sounded good on those, and their differences narrowed somewhat, but their relative differences stayed consistent.  The Dragonfly doesn't have much power, and I had to set the volume of it sometimes around 90% with the Senn and 100% with the HFM.  The Nuforce drove them both fine.  I used both the low gain and high gain settings on the Valhalla 2 with the HFM, and there seemed to be plenty of power either way. 

 

[394216]

  Thanks.  That would be a very good price for the Senn.  I like both the 400i or 600 over the 701, as either an upgrade or a complement.  I used to have the k702, and I liked its clarity, and comfort, but   sold it to get something with more booty.

by booty you mean low end punch? but i love the deep and tight booty of my k701 LOL. What I want is a more intimate experience since k701 has a very wide soundstage. Kinda like my um3x. Also something good for Hard rock/prog rock/prog metal 
 
oh btw my rig is E17(DAC) ----> E9/Bravo Ocean with NOS 12au7

 

[Billheiser]

  by booty you mean low end punch? but i love the deep and tight booty of my k701 LOL. What I want is a more intimate experience since k701 has a very wide soundstage. Kinda like my um3x. 

Yep.  Glad you're getting booty w/ the 701!  Enjoy!  Try the 400i if you can, it can be more intimate and still strong in other areas too.

 

[394216]

Yeah i need to try he-400i one if these days. Also with my current rig i think its high efficiency is a better fit

 

[mgh24]

If I had only waited 10 more hours before ordering the open box from Razordog I could have read your review first!

I just returned the HD600 because I wanted more bass impact, which is one of the things many reviewers like about the 400i. I really liked the mids and treble of the 600, so hopefully the 400i won't be too bright. If the bass is only equal to the 600 I will regret this purchase.

Oh well, I have just started my journey, and this will be my first ortho experience, so the comparison will be fun.

Really appreciate you taking the time and effort to put together the comparison.

 

[mandrake50]

I think you will be happy with the 400i. But they are I have both the HD600 and the 400i. Though I have really like the HD 600 over the 4 plus years that I have had them, and still do, I do prefer the 400i for everyday listening though.
 
I can't say that I have played any LF warble tones, I do have the Stereophile test disk, but I listen to music. In music, there is typically not enough information at 20 HZ for me to be concerned about minor differences in response there. If my aim was comparing two phones with test tones, precise level matching would be a priority. I think that no conclusions can be reached without that.
 
I don't consider myself a bass head. I like good solid detailed bass, but not artificially emphasized bass. Neither the 600 nor 400i blow the bass out of proportion, but the 400i is definitely more detailed everywhere than the 600, to my ears anyway.
 
BTW, I did the grill mod recently, it does seem to add just a little bit in the low frequencies. I am guessing that the drivers can breathe a bit easier...
 
At this point, my HD600 is not going anywhere, but I am listening to and enjoying the HE 400i lots more since I got them.
 
Different ears, different brains, means different opinions.
 
Billheiser, I did like the review, even though my conclusions are different. Good job.

 

[llcook51]

1. Billheiser

"My review of the HE-400i —
Compared them primarily to the Sennheiser HD-600.  (Compared them also to Grado Rs1e and HiFiMan HE-300, but those were minor league compared to 400i and 600 IMO.)
 
Excellent review of two great cans.
 

 

[ethan7000]

If I had only waited 10 more hours before ordering the open box from Razordog I could have read your review first!

I just returned the HD600 because I wanted more bass impact, which is one of the things many reviewers like about the 400i. I really liked the mids and treble of the 600, so hopefully the 400i won't be too bright. If the bass is only equal to the 600 I will regret this purchase.

Oh well, I have just started my journey, and this will be my first ortho experience, so the comparison will be fun.

Really appreciate you taking the time and effort to put together the comparison.

I'm not sure I understand Billheiser's review with regard to bass. I owned the HD580 (you probably know it's connection to the HD600) for over 10 years, then the HE400, HE500, HE400i. I tried boosting sub bass on each set with these results:
 
HD580: Technically unable to reproduce lowest tones. Sub bass was more or less non-existent in many tracks.
HE400i: Drivers are more technically capable (with regard to sub bass) than HD580. Sub bass is present, but not very well defined.
HE500: Drivers are more technically capable (with regard to sub bass) than HE400i. Sub bass is a bit more defined than HE400i.
HE400: Drivers are more technically capable (with regard to sub bass) than HE500. Best sub bass presentation of the four headphones.

 

[mandrake50]

Yes, I have the HD580. I re-grilled them with the 600 metal grills and got an Equinox cable for them. The bought the hd600 a few years later. They are so close that for me, I really wonder if I could tell the differences if I did not know which one I had on. A few months ago I got the HD650. I am a fan of the Senn hd6xx phones!
 
Because the music I listen to, and really the vast majority of all music simply does not have much of any content in the sub bass region (below say 50 HZ), this does not make me get very excited about differences in that range. I think that the next octave, 60 to 120 HZ is really more important in making bass sound "real" to me.
 
If one check the forums dealing with mixing, you will find that quite often they use a high pass filter based at around 40 hz when mixing for mastering. They know that the vast majority of systems don't handle much in the below 50 HZ range, that the human ear (even if some can "hear" at high levels) is way down in response at these frequencies. Therefor the information is usually lost, but yet makes the source work harder supplying the current, and causes drivers to labor (causing IMD) trying to reproduce information that most will never hear.
 
If you play music loud enough to "hear" 20HZ, through headphones, the rest of the music is probably damaging your ears!
 
Back to the comparison. The bass just sounds better on the 400i than the HD6xx, to me. It also sounds better than my HD400, Apparently this has little to do with sub bas capabilities. It has to do with things that I actually can hear at sane listening levels to program material that I use.
 
BTW, I am a fan of sub bass where appropriate. The home theater setup here will do in excess of 118 DB at 20 HZ. Gotta love thunder, explosions, earthquakes and sound effects.. even well recorded pipe organs in the proper venue. That is simply not what I use my headphones for. (except maybe very occasionally the organ stuff)

 

[chowmein83]

  nice review! I can get a used HD600 for about half the price of a new HE-400i so this is a good read for me.
 
But I already have a K701 so which would be a good upgrade or even a complement? 

 
Quote:

  Thanks.  That would be a very good price for the Senn.  I like both the 400i or 600 over the 701, as either an upgrade or a complement.  I used to have the k702, and I liked its clarity, and comfort, but   sold it to get something with more booty.

 
I have to agree here with Billheiser. I have auditioned extensively the Q701 (which should be very similar to the K701) and I think the 400i is a big step up. Two biggest advantages of the 400i over the Q701/K701 are the bass and imaging.
 
While I don't really agree with your assessment of the Q701/K701 bass (I just think it lacks bass), I will say that I think the 400i's bass just has more texture and detail.
 
Imaging in the Q701/K701 is relatively poor in my opinion. You'll know where the sound is approximately coming from in the Q701/K701, but I don't think you could pinpoint exactly where. The 400i is much better in this respect in that you'll be able to exactly tell where the sounds are coming from, as well as subtler cues such as minor panning of sounds.
 
Q701/K701 has a very large soundstage, but as I've listened to more and more songs I've found that the 400i's soundstage actually isn't that much smaller. The 400i will give you a large soundstage if the song is mastered to be so, but will give you more of an intimate experience if that is how the music is made.
 
I will admit though that the Q701/K701 has great clarity. However, I think the 400i at least matches it in this clarity but is also more tonally correct (for example, I feel the slight warmth allows the 400i to present guitars in an extremely natural way).

 

[mandrake50]

 However, I think the 400i at least matches it in this clarity but is also more tonally correct (for example, I feel the slight warmth allows the 400i to present guitars in an extremely natural way).

Every time I listen to the 400i, the overwhelming thought is "natural". I can't worry about extension at the extremes of hearing. I like music through these things! HifiMan just got it right on the 400i for my tastes. I am sure that is meaningless to others fixated on some other specific aspect of performance, but the whole package works for me.

 

[ethan7000]

Yes, I have the HD580. I re-grilled them with the 600 metal grills and got an Equinox cable for them. The bought the hd600 a few years later. They are so close that for me, I really wonder if I could tell the differences if I did not know which one I had on. A few months ago I got the HD650. I am a fan of the Senn hd6xx phones!

Because the music I listen to, and really the vast majority of all music simply does not have much of any content in the sub bass region (below say 50 HZ), this does not make me get very excited about differences in that range. I think that the next octave, 60 to 120 HZ is really more important in making bass sound "real" to me.

If one check the forums dealing with mixing, you will find that quite often they use a high pass filter based at around 40 hz when mixing for mastering. They know that the vast majority of systems don't handle much in the below 50 HZ range, that the human ear (even if some can "hear" at high levels) is way down in response at these frequencies. Therefor the information is usually lost, but yet makes the source work harder supplying the current, and causes drivers to labor (causing IMD) trying to reproduce information that most will never hear.

If you play music loud enough to "hear" 20HZ, through headphones, the rest of the music is probably damaging your ears!

Back to the comparison. The bass just sounds better on the 400i than the HD6xx, to me. It also sounds better than my HD400, Apparently this has little to do with sub bas capabilities. It has to do with things that I actually can hear at sane listening levels to program material that I use.

BTW, I am a fan of sub bass where appropriate. The home theater setup here will do in excess of 118 DB at 20 HZ. Gotta love thunder, explosions, earthquakes and sound effects.. even well recorded pipe organs in the proper venue. That is simply not what I use my headphones for. (except maybe very occasionally the organ stuff)

Yes I was just comparing sub bass. EDM is full of it, all depends on your genres. I also like jazz with upright bass - hits the low tones frequently.

 

[Textfeud]

I won't disagree with the general statement, but based on my recent one week trial with the Grado Rs1e, that model was poor with rock and metal and other genres too. I much preferred competing models from Senn and HiFiMan and NAD. Ymmv.

That's really really weird. Out of all the headphones I've had the RS1i comes out at top regarding rock. HE-500 can compete and overall they are the better headphones but RS1i are just plain fun. Maybe not your cup of tea, always possible. But I wouldn't call it poor even if it's not your cup of tea.

 

[Billheiser]

That's really really weird. Out of all the headphones I've had the RS1i comes out at top regarding rock. HE-500 can compete and overall they are the better headphones but RS1i are just plain fun. Maybe not your cup of tea, always possible. But I wouldn't call it poor even if it's not your cup of tea.

Ok. It's not my cup of tea due to its suboptimal performance, in my opinion, when I evaluated it against other good headphones, during a week of comparative listening. It was the new Rs1e version.