[lowrider007]

I just sent my 400i's back, I purchased them on sale as an upgrade to my K712 Pro's, To be honest I was quite surprised that they sounded more similar to my K712's than dissimilar, I think overall my main issue with 400i's was that they sounded too warm for me which meant I was missing out on some genres of music, the K712's are already on the fence when it comes to warmth for me, also I wasn't really a fan of the more intimate soundstage, I think I need to up my game and try something like the HD800/800s, need more clarity, I in fact I want as much clarity as possible but without feeling fatigued?

 

[DavidA]

@Jazmanaut, the idea for the use of sorbothane came from the Stax thread and spilled over to the HE400 where it does wonders since the cups are made of metal. Unfortunately the sorbothane does not have the same effect with the HE400i since the cups are plastic. This is what I did with my HE400:

you can see all the small pieces of sorbothane around the cup. Its a PITA since you can't put a single continuous piece of sorbothane, it must be cut into small squares and then sliced up into quarters after you install it.

Do you consider you your modded 325i better than the HE400i? I'm also curious to the mods you've done to the 325i to get them to have such a high regard in comparison to an LCD-4.

 

[DavidA]

I just sent my 400i's back, I purchased them on sale as an upgrade to my K712 Pro's, To be honest I was quite surprised that they sounded more similar to my K712's than dissimilar, I think overall my main issue with 400i's was that they sounded too warm for me which meant I was missing out on some genres of music, the K712's are already on the fence when it comes to warmth for me, also I wasn't really a fan of the more intimate soundstage, I think I need to up my game and try something like the HD800/800s, need more clarity, I in fact I want as much clarity as possible but without feeling fatigued?

I don't know of many that would consider the HE400i too warm but what are the genres that you consider the HE400i too warm? Also, since there was nothing in your profile what is your source and are you using an amp and or DAC?

The HD800/S will give you more clarity but you will need to have a DAC and amp to go along with them and if you are worried about feeling fatigued these are not headphones I would consider unless you are using a tube amp on the warmer side like a WA2 or Elise. Its a fine line between clarity and fatigue.

 

[hikaru12]

in your face-presentation and "electricity" just isn't there with the HEX.

Aren't they more or less as mid centric as the 400i's? What's replaced for aggressiveness is the clarity and tonality in the upper treble. They may have smoothed it out too much but I think that may just be a bad pairing. What did you amp it with?

sounded too warm for me which meant I was missing out on some genres of music

These definetly aren't warm cans but the interesting thing is I've heard them called everything from bright to dark to neutral. I think neutral describes them best except for the obvious peaks. The two ways to raise clarity is to 1) raise the treble or 2) engineer a better designed driver. If you want clarity without being fatigued you gotta dish out the money for a really nice system and amp pairing. Depends on what you mean by clarity though, clarity in the vocals is not the same as clarity in the sub-bass etc

 

[peter123]

I just sent my 400i's back, I purchased them on sale as an upgrade to my K712 Pro's, To be honest I was quite surprised that they sounded more similar to my K712's than dissimilar, I think overall my main issue with 400i's was that they sounded too warm for me which meant I was missing out on some genres of music, the K712's are already on the fence when it comes to warmth for me, also I wasn't really a fan of the more intimate soundstage, I think I need to up my game and try something like the HD800/800s, need more clarity, I in fact I want as much clarity as possible but without feeling fatigued?

I'd actually also describe the HE400i as warm (although not too warm for me) and the same goes for the Q701's. To me the HD800S is quite a relaxed listening experience and surprisingly I find the bass quality to be a bit bloomy in comparison to the HE560, the deepest bass is amazing on them though. The HD800S is a very enjoyable pair of headphones but I think that the HE560 could be an option for you as well.

 

[rids57]

Well I'm keeping mine, I got them in the same sale as lowrider007, they will share a mug tree with my HD650s which they complement very nicely - my AKG K702s are now relegated to the cupboard with my DT990s

 

[drwlf]

Aren't they more or less as mid centric as the 400i's? What's replaced for aggressiveness is the clarity and tonality in the upper treble. They may have smoothed it out too much but I think that may just be a bad pairing. What did you amp it with?

Yeah, the overall tonality was better, i.e. more "balanced", however with some issues in the mids, (I can't seem to remember how it was particularly presented, but at least some aspects felt a bit scooped out (odd valleys), or the entire midrange felt a bit scooped out?), the plankton and microdetail retrieval was more natural and effortless compared to the 400i, but the overall thin HFM tone with subdued treble response - e.g. leading edge transients were missing, sparkle and aggressiveness due to extended treble was not there at all.
I've tested them in a few meets, expos and in-store, so I haven't really concentrated on them, and none of the experiences I've had have wowed me for further listening. For example, I get the idea behind HEK, and it's not my cup of tea, and HEX is more in the same vein, but not quite - and it didn't seem to do anything 'great', vs. competitors in the same pricepoint, or even lower. The driver seemed slower, it felt like HFM couldn't decide on how it wanted to handle macrodynamics, I couldn't figure out a genre it could do well in, kind of like how I wouldn't throw modern IDM at HEK when I want to get an electric buzz

 

[lowrider007]

These definitely aren't warm cans but the interesting thing is I've heard them called everything from bright to dark to neutral. I think neutral describes them best except for the obvious peaks. The two ways to raise clarity is to 1) raise the treble or 2) engineer a better designed driver. If you want clarity without being fatigued you gotta dish out the money for a really nice system and amp pairing. Depends on what you mean by clarity though, clarity in the vocals is not the same as clarity in the sub-bass etc

They are warmer than my K712's that's a fact.

I don't know of many that would consider the HE400i too warm but what are the genres that you consider the HE400i too warm? Also, since there was nothing in your profile what is your source and are you using an amp and or DAC?

The HD800/S will give you more clarity but you will need to have a DAC and amp to go along with them and if you are worried about feeling fatigued these are not headphones I would consider unless you are using a tube amp on the warmer side like a WA2 or Elise. Its a fine line between clarity and fatigue.

Classical mainly, I'm using an Audeze Deckard as my amp/dac, and Spotify premium as my source.

I'd actually also describe the HE400i as warm (although not too warm for me) and the same goes for the Q701's. To me the HD800S is quite a relaxed listening experience and surprisingly I find the bass quality to be a bit bloomy in comparison to the HE560, the deepest bass is amazing on them though. The HD800S is a very enjoyable pair of headphones but I think that the HE560 could be an option for you as well.

I think I might order the HE560 tbh, I was originally going to get the 560 anyway but I read a few people saying that the 400i's "get you 80-90% to the performance of 560 so it put me off paying the extra.

 

[DavidA]

They are warmer than my K712's that's a fact.
Classical mainly, I'm using an Audeze Deckard as my amp/dac, and Spotify premium as my source.
I think I might order the HE560 tbh, I was originally going to get the 560 anyway but I read a few people saying that the 400i's "get you 80-90% to the performance of 560 so it put me off paying the extra.

If you listen to mostly classical I would recommend the HD800, HD700 or T1g1 along with a decent OTL (tube) amp over the HE560 unless you also listen to opera then the HE560 might be better since the extra wide sound stage of the HD800 and T1 can sometimes make vocals seem weird IMO. I haven't tried the Deckard but since its from Audeze I don't think they designed it with high impedance headphones like the HD800 and T1 in mind but I could be wrong. The other headphone that I love for classical is the SR009 but the lower models are still quite good and to a few friends they like the SR-507 or the older SR-L700 better than the HD800 or T1.

 

[GirgleMirt]

I don't know of many that would consider the HE400i too warm but what are the genres that you consider the HE400i too warm? Also, since there was nothing in your profile what is your source and are you using an amp and or DAC?

So weird, I wouldn't describe the 400i warm. Definitely more slightly neutral bright than warm... Even my Q701 sound warmer than the 400i, and I don't think many describe them as warm. And from the measurements, the 400i shouldn't sound any warmer than the 712, it only has better extension, although at 2k the 400i is definitely lower than AKGs...

https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGQuincyJonesQ701.pdf
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK712.pdf
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANHE4002014.pdf

 

[hikaru12]

I've tested them in a few meets, expos and in-store, so I haven't really concentrated on them, and none of the experiences I've had have wowed me for further listening. For example, I get the idea behind HEK, and it's not my cup of tea, and HEX is more in the same vein, but not quite - and it didn't seem to do anything 'great', vs. competitors in the same pricepoint, or even lower. The driver seemed slower, it felt like HFM couldn't decide on how it wanted to handle macrodynamics, I couldn't figure out a genre it could do well in, kind of like how I wouldn't throw modern IDM at HEK when I want to get an electric buzz

I'm definitely going to have to find a shop carrying them then. I don't particularly like an aggressive sound (when I do I go for V shaped closed backs) but if it's lacking in detail then that's something else entirely. I just want a warmish set of cans with great detail that don't require a ton of power as a flagship. The problem with buying cheaper cans is you have to mod them a bit to get them perfect and while that's fun I want an end game pair of cans already

 

[mandrake50]

They are warmer than my K712's that's a fact.

I think I might order the HE560 tbh, I was originally going to get the 560 anyway but I read a few people saying that the 400i's "get you 80-90% to the performance of 560 so it put me off paying the extra.

The statement by "a few people" is just that. A few people's opinion. The thing is that the two are very different headphones. Tonality is quite different. The 560 is simply brighter balanced. Detail retrieval and sound field on the 560 is much superior. The just do quite different things. I suppose that you could say the 400i gets you 100% of what the 560 does, if you just mean they both produce sound. If you talk about other specifics, it may be 30 to 50%.
I don't like giving percentages because that indicates that someone has set a hard definition of what 100% is. No one ever seems to do that, so saying something is XX% of something else is meaningless.

Now, if you really like the 400i, you may not really care for the 560. In any case my feeling is that the 560 is the better headphone from the standpoint of technicalities, and sound field. In those areas the differences are much greater than would be indicted by arbitrarily assigning a number like 10%.

Additionally just because a few people say something, does not make it so. Without knowing their listening abilities, equipment, and whether their tastes run close to "yours", their opinions may be quite irrelevant in your decision making process.

 

[393699]

I just sent my 400i's back, I purchased them on sale as an upgrade to my K712 Pro's, To be honest I was quite surprised that they sounded more similar to my K712's than dissimilar, I think overall my main issue with 400i's was that they sounded too warm for me which meant I was missing out on some genres of music, the K712's are already on the fence when it comes to warmth for me, also I wasn't really a fan of the more intimate soundstage, I think I need to up my game and try something like the HD800/800s, need more clarity, I in fact I want as much clarity as possible but without feeling fatigued?

Hey lowrider007, I am also an owner of the HE400i and K712 Pro. The K712 Pro is my favorite headphone I own. You should give my EQ set a try on your K712 Pro. It takes it to a new level of sound quality. I think you will be impressed.

160Hz: - 1
200Hz - 1
250Hz - 1
315Hz - 1
2kHz: - 1
3.15kHz: + 2
4kHz: + 1
8.5kHz: + 0.5
10kHz: + 0.5
12.5kHz: - 0.5
16kHz: + 0.5

 

[Jazmanaut]

@Jazmanaut, the idea for the use of sorbothane came from the Stax thread and spilled over to the HE400 where it does wonders since the cups are made of metal. Unfortunately the sorbothane does not have the same effect with the HE400i since the cups are plastic. This is what I did with my HE400:

you can see all the small pieces of sorbothane around the cup. Its a PITA since you can't put a single continuous piece of sorbothane, it must be cut into small squares and then sliced up into quarters after you install it.

Do you consider you your modded 325i better than the HE400i? I'm also curious to the mods you've done to the 325i to get them to have such a high regard in comparison to an LCD-4.

My modded 325is are brighter, as highs goes much more flat at the end of register. And that sub bass is superior, when compairing to 400i:s. But as they are more revealing and analytical tools, i believe that many people don´t like them, because if record sounds bad, these cans wont give any slack.

Here you can found, what i did with those:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/post-your-grado-mods.119314/page-520#post-13515858

 

[DavidA]

My modded 325is are brighter, as highs goes much more flat at the end of register. And that sub bass is superior, when compairing to 400i:s. But as they are more revealing and analytical tools, i believe that many people don´t like them, because if record sounds bad, these cans wont give any slack.

Here you can found, what i did with those:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/post-your-grado-mods.119314/page-520#post-13515858

I've seen that post before, loved it . I can understand how those like you would love a modded SR325i over a HE400i since I just completed a project on a SR325i similar to what you did but only opened 2 vent holes. I did put dynamat in the cups and sorbothane on the back of the driver magnet, felt on the back of the button and installed some SMC jacks to make the cables removable.

These modded SR325i make the HE400i seem bass lite to some but they still don't go as low as the HE400i but with most genres of music its not something that many will miss since few genres have a lot of sub-bass info.