[drwlf]

Thank you. Ohhh I really want to try the HD650 based on that lol.

@DavidA desribes the HD650 well, but listening to those after the 400i might be surprisingly disappointing, especially if you've read a lot of hype, and if your brain has a certain preconception of them.
They probably won't be as engaging, and definitely not as energetic as the 400i, having not as much "in your face"-presentation, and they handle macrodynamics "poorly" e.g. soothing them out, being warmer, lusher and rather laid back, negatively speaking, especially with an unmatching amp/poorly amped. You'll be engaged to the HD650 if a more romantic sound is your cup of tea, and the previous descriptions synergize well with the amplifier.

However, the timbre of instruments and the tone in the HD650 is rather spectacular, and the drivers extract plankton extraordinary well - effortlessly, you hear microdetail without any sense of artificially boosted treble, which IMO the 400i suffers from, a bit at least. The level of microdetail enhances and scales with the source/amp, to great heights.
The 400i throws the details at you, almost forces you to pay attention to them, and it won't scale and fair a lot better with better source and an amp.

On quick A/Bs in stores for example, I suspect the 400i fairs well in todays world of short attention spans, leaving the HD650 too often in the dust and even underappreciated for newcomers - the appreciation for them is here in the forums/wild
Both are great cans, but indeed different beasts, both having flaws and fortes! Some mid/high-range timbre issues in the 400i bother me, but oh boy, do they have the phenomenal quickness and sub-bass detail, which the HD650 doesn't have. Both are extraordinary for different genres, albums, mixes, masters.

And do indeed listen to @DavidA s comments about amping!

 

[Slim1970]

I had the ZMF Ori pads sitting around that I originally purchase to try with my D7200's. Didn't like the sound of the D7200's with them. So I ordered a extra set of mounting rings from Hifiman and installed them on the 400i V2's after reading a few posts on this thread. The installation was a breeze thanks to the card trick that @DavidA recommended. They sound amazing with the Ori pads. They are definitely a step up in comfort. But I'm still trying to gauge the sound difference over the FocusPad-A's. My initial impressions was that they sound more alike than different. But I'm getting a hint more sub-bass with the Ori pads. The rest of the frequency range seems to be untouched to my ears.

I'm listening through the iFi Micro iDSD BL with XBass+ on and I'm enjoying the added low end presence. Without XBass+ going back and forth between the iDSD BL and the Mojo, the low end on the iDSD BL is still better than it is on the Mojo. The Mojo does has more upper end detail making the 400i V2's sound noticeably brighter to my ears. The iDSD BL's treble is just as detailed but not as glaring. It blends better with the rest of the frequency range making the 400i V2's have a fuller sound. So my preference amp pairing in this case goes to the iDSD BL since the 400i V2's offer tremendous clarity already. The 400i V2's do look good with the Ori pads. Thank goodness they sound that way as well.

 

[madams5000]

I had the ZMF Ori pads sitting around that I originally purchase to try with my D7200's. Didn't like the sound of the D7200's with them. So I ordered a extra set of mounting rings from Hifiman and installed them on the 400i V2's after reading a few posts on this thread. The installation was a breeze thanks to the card trick that @DavidA recommended. They sound amazing with the Ori pads. They are definitely a step up in comfort. But I'm still trying to gauge the sound difference over the FocusPad-A's. My initial impressions was that they sound more alike than different. But I'm getting a hint more sub-bass with the Ori pads. The rest of the frequency range seems to be untouched to my ears.

I'm listening through the iFi Micro iDSD BL with XBass+ on and I'm enjoying the added low end presence. Without XBass+ going back and forth between the iDSD BL and the Mojo, the low end on the iDSD BL is still better than it is on the Mojo. The Mojo does has more upper end detail making the 400i V2's sound noticeably brighter to my ears. The iDSD BL's treble is just as detailed but not as glaring. It blends better with the rest of the frequency range making the 400i V2's have a fuller sound. So my preference amp pairing in this case goes to the iDSD BL since the 400i V2's offer tremendous clarity already. The 400i V2's do look good with the Ori pads. Thank goodness they sound that way as well.

Thanks for the Ori/Focus-A comparo. I'm still burning in my 400i, and have a set of focus-a's here. Considering the Ori's, but it sounds like from a performance perspective I can go ahead and just use the focus-a's I have and be pretty darn close. Loving the detail of these through Fiio 7MKii, but would love just a little more low end. Hoping pad change does it.

 

[Slim1970]

Thanks for the Ori/Focus-A comparo. I'm still burning in my 400i, and have a set of focus-a's here. Considering the Ori's, but it sounds like from a performance perspective I can go ahead and just use the focus-a's I have and be pretty darn close. Loving the detail of these through Fiio 7MKii, but would love just a little more low end. Hoping pad change does it.

Yeah, you won't be losing much mid and treble quality going to the Ori's from the FocusPad-A's but you'll be gaining some comfort and a little more bass. With a well mixed recording with some bass in it the 400i's with the Ori pads sound very, very good. Like I said, with the Ori pads there's a bit more sub-bass presence and bass boost in general that I'm enjoying a lot with the 400i's. At the moment I'm leaning towards the 400i's with Ori pads over the FocusPad-A's. I haven't tried the 400i's with my FiiO X7 MKII because I'm enjoying it with my SE846's. But I might give them a listen.

 

[mandrake50]

Yea I'm planning on using my phone as the main source and desktop as secondary. I don't mind if it's a dac/amp or just amp

You might consider looking at the iDSD Black Label. It gets good reviews. I just picked on up about a week ago and have been really enjoying it. It definitely has enough juice to power the 400i or the 560.
I like the signature as well! I have to admit. I have not pulled out my 400i to test that pairing, but everything else I have thrown at it has done quite nicely. (HEK V1, Aeon, PM-3, HE 560).
Granted it is not really pocketable, unless you have big pockets (think cargo pants), but with the battery, I would think it could serve well as a lounge amp. There is a thread on it, and about an 8 page comprehensive review too on Head-Fi.
I picked one up because of a sale I ran across... sort of on a whime, but also because several here spoke highly of it. I am quite happy that I did. BTW, the price of a Mojo is pretty close to the BL, but I just find the ergonomics on the Mojo, including interconnections, is not as good as the BL. There is also anice implementation of crossfeed and a bass boost on the BL (for those that like those features).

Anyway, it might be worth a look. (I think it definitely is)

 

[peter123]

Yea I'm planning on using my phone as the main source and desktop as secondary. I don't mind if it's a dac/amp or just amp

I strongly suggest that you choose a device with its own battery in that case. In my experience the battery drain from other devices will always be a issue in the long run.

I don't have that many portable amps og good quality bit the Cayin C5 is a very solid product.

For a dac/amp combo you can also check out the LH Labs Geek Out V2+, it's great with all of my headphones including the HE400i and HE560. If you care for the sq I'd recommend a dac/amp combo over just a amp to pair with your phone.

 

[Slim1970]

You might consider looking at the iDSD Black Label. It gets good reviews. I just picked on up about a week ago and have been really enjoying it. It definitely has enough juice to power the 400i or the 560.
I like the signature as well! I have to admit. I have not pulled out my 400i to test that pairing, but everything else I have thrown at it has done quite nicely. (HEK V1, Aeon, PM-3, HE 560).
Granted it is not really pocketable, unless you have big pockets (think cargo pants), but with the battery, I would think it could serve well as a lounge amp. There is a thread on it, and about an 8 page comprehensive review too on Head-Fi.
I picked one up because of a sale I ran across... sort of on a whime, but also because several here spoke highly of it. I am quite happy that I did. BTW, the price of a Mojo is pretty close to the BL, but I just find the ergonomics on the Mojo, including interconnections, is not as good as the BL. There is also anice implementation of crossfeed and a bass boost on the BL (for those that like those features).

Anyway, it might be worth a look. (I think it definitely is)

+1 on the iDSD BL. It's works very with all my headphones including the 400i V2's. Turning on the XBass+ with the 400i V2's does wonders for this headphone. The iDSD BL is feature rich and can accommodate a wider variety of headphones including iem's.

 

[HungryPanda]

+2 on the iDSD BL, my favourite portable all singing and dancing amp ever

 

[Paddy]

Just something I noticed last night while listening was i have found some highs quite harsh or sibilant but only with a few songs. I hope this decreases with burn in. The vast majority of vocals and instruments are perfect. Could someone who has spotify please do me a favour, could they search for a song called blade runner blues and there is a point at the song at 1 minute 50 seconds in that it is so harsh it's intolerable for Me, could they also test it with HE 400i and give their opinion as it could always be the recording.

 

[Paddy]

@DavidA desribes the HD650 well, but listening to those after the 400i might be surprisingly disappointing, especially if you've read a lot of hype, and if your brain has a certain preconception of them.
They probably won't be as engaging, and definitely not as energetic as the 400i, having not as much "in your face"-presentation, and they handle macrodynamics "poorly" e.g. soothing them out, being warmer, lusher and rather laid back, negatively speaking, especially with an unmatching amp/poorly amped. You'll be engaged to the HD650 if a more romantic sound is your cup of tea, and the previous descriptions synergize well with the amplifier.

However, the timbre of instruments and the tone in the HD650 is rather spectacular, and the drivers extract plankton extraordinary well - effortlessly, you hear microdetail without any sense of artificially boosted treble, which IMO the 400i suffers from, a bit at least. The level of microdetail enhances and scales with the source/amp, to great heights.
The 400i throws the details at you, almost forces you to pay attention to them, and it won't scale and fair a lot better with better source and an amp.

On quick A/Bs in stores for example, I suspect the 400i fairs well in todays world of short attention spans, leaving the HD650 too often in the dust and even underappreciated for newcomers - the appreciation for them is here in the forums/wild
Both are great cans, but indeed different beasts, both having flaws and fortes! Some mid/high-range timbre issues in the 400i bother me, but oh boy, do they have the phenomenal quickness and sub-bass detail, which the HD650 doesn't have. Both are extraordinary for different genres, albums, mixes, masters.

And do indeed listen to @DavidA s comments about amping!

When I used to compare closed sennheiser headphones with my ATH-M70X i noticed they really pull back the vocals which feel quite distant compared to the rich and bright but not too bright M70X. When I hear people talk about the sennheiser veil and the HD650 I imagine they sound similar to this which has out me off buying them

 

[DavidA]

When I used to compare closed sennheiser headphones with my ATH-M70X i noticed they really pull back the vocals which feel quite distant compared to the rich and bright but not too bright M70X. When I hear people talk about the sennheiser veil and the HD650 I imagine they sound similar to this which has out me off buying them

I think the term "veiled" is miss used with the description of the HD650, to me its not "veiled" but laid back or slightly rolled of treble would be a better description and it also depends on what your experiences in the past have been. As @drwlf noted if you like the HE400i the HD650 might sound lacking but if you like the HD650 the HE400i might sound overly bright, it really depends on one's point of reference.

 

[mandrake50]

I couldn't agree more. I think this is often overlooked when people initially try new headphones. It is quite often recommended to listen to a new headphone exclusively for a period of time... I like two to three weeks, before making an assessment versus anything else. I find it difficult to do AB comparisons exactly because of this. It is not that I can't detect and document differences at the time, but rather my perceptions are definitely colored by preferences and what I have been recently accustomed to listening to. I know that many feel that they can get beyond this, but the influence of the psyche on perception cannot be underestimated nor completely overcome in the vast majority of cases.

 

[rez11]

damn these Ori pads are insanely comfortable lol, must be the lambskin, these feel like 60$ worth and i dont regret it one second, and the bass mmm

 

[duo8]

What do I do now?

 

[DavidA]

@duo8, Don't quite understand what you are asking?