[CoFire]

About the same soundstage size, about the same imaging accuracy. LCD3 is smoother and more resolving and has better bass impact. Same bass speed and accuracy. LCD3 mids are more liquids. HE400i has more up front/energetic highs. LCD3 highs are smoother.

Sounds more like a trade off than a true upgrade. Do you feel the same having heard both? Were you using the m9XX for the comparison?

 

[CoFire]

I'm not a fan of the HD800 for current popular music. I've been meaning to try out the HD800S since it supposedly tones done the treble a bit and adds a bit of bass quantity, but just haven't had a chance.


As for the HE400i, isn't the 400i supposed to have a bit less sub bass then the original 400? That was my understanding at least.


As for QC issues, who knows...I've had a pair of HE400's for close to 4 years now, and they are still in the exact same condition as the day I bought them new. No issues with the connectors, no issues with paint coming off, nothing. I've even tinkered with them a bit, removing and replace pads, grills etc. Still in 100% flawless condition. 


I'm currently waiting on my 400i's to arrive (Christmas day) and I highly doubt I will have any issues with QC, but again, some people seem to have had some issues so who knows.

I'm coming up on a year of owning the 400i. I use them near daily, well work day daily. Agreed, no quality issues but I will say the cable, in addition to its clumsy knotting and right angle connector, did start to electrically open at the 2.5mm connection to the headphone body. There's not much of a stain relief in the design so it wasn't too surprising but nonetheless a little disappointing. No biggie, contacted Hifiman customer service and they had me back up in about 2 weeks. I had to send them my old cable and they just sent a replacement. You know the 400i are noteworthy when I have the K7XX, THX00 Mahogany & PH, X1 and HD595 ready to plug in and I miss the 400i's. I forget how I've amassed all these headphones... (I must have issues)

 

[fjrabon]

Sounds more like a trade off than a true upgrade. Do you feel the same having heard both? Were you using the m9XX for the comparison?

No, the LCD3 is a pretty clear upgrade. Much better resolution and the bass is better. Some people who prefer energetic, upfront treble might prefer the HE400i, but objectively the LCD3 are better (well, the HE400i is much more comfortable).

Yes, I've tried both on about a half dozen amps, including the m9XX

 

[CoFire]

No, the LCD3 is a pretty clear upgrade. Much better resolution and the bass is better. Some people who prefer energetic, upfront treble might prefer the HE400i, but objectively the LCD3 are better (well, the HE400i is much more comfortable).

Yes, I've tried both on about a half dozen amps, including the m9XX

You mention the HD800, LCD3 and Abyss as upgrades, well improvements based on my desired attributes in an improved 400i, which would be your best recommendation of the 3 and why? Or perhaps something else entirely. I'm sometimes wonder to go from here. The clinical detail and soundstage of the HD800, smooth yet resolving and bass of the LCD3 or whatever the Abyss had to offer. Have to admit, I haven't heard much on this one.

 

[fjrabon]

You mention the HD800, LCD3 and Abyss as upgrades, well improvements based on my desired attributes in an improved 400i, which would be your best recommendation of the 3 and why? Or perhaps something else entirely. I'm sometimes wonder to go from here. The clinical detail and soundstage of the HD800, smooth yet resolving and bass of the LCD3 or whatever the Abyss had to offer. Have to admit, I haven't heard much on this one.

The abyss is probably the most like a supercharged HE400i. But it's crazy expensive, not very comfortable, kind of ugly and requires a nuclear power plant for an amp. The HD800 is probably the cheapest way to summit sound, but requires careful consideration of each piece of the chain. The Utopia is the easiest path to summit sound because it's relatively easy to amp, just give it a great dAC and a clean amp and you're there. . But the Utopia itself is absurdly expensive and the HD800 beats it on soundstage. There there's also the idea of going estat. The SR009 still stands up to anything (including the shangri-la and Orpheus)

 

[CoFire]

Seems the 400i are quite a bargain for the quality of the sound and ease of amping. It SEEMS it takes some investment past this point for a worthwhile improvement. I like the HD800 and SR009 options based on your experiences and observations. I've been side stepping all over because I enjoy the different signatures but this conversation is good food for thought... ehhh, maybe more of a seed.

 

[Mani ATH 87]

I'm coming up on a year of owning the 400i. I use them near daily, well work day daily. Agreed, no quality issues but I will say the cable, in addition to its clumsy knotting and right angle connector, did start to electrically open at the 2.5mm connection to the headphone body. There's not much of a stain relief in the design so it wasn't too surprising but nonetheless a little disappointing. No biggie, contacted Hifiman customer service and they had me back up in about 2 weeks. I had to send them my old cable and they just sent a replacement. You know the 400i are noteworthy when I have the K7XX, THX00 Mahogany & PH, X1 and HD595 ready to plug in and I miss the 400i's. I forget how I've amassed all these headphones... (I must have issues)

 
I bought a replacement cable already, nothing fancy...but I'm not one who really believes in audio cables adding much in terms of sound. I spend about $50 and bought a replacement HD700 cable (which has the same connectors as the 400i).

I bought it mainly because I don't like the idea of the right angle plug. I don't know why Hifiman is using this plug, but it won't really work with my set up. Where i sit, the cable is going to be bending at the plug because of the right angle, and over time that is going to damage the cable. So I just went ahead and bought a replacement cable before I got the headphones. 

 

[drwlf]

  New HE400i owner here. No bass extension at all, definitely agree with katzolik. So weird for planar! It's like Fang intentionally limited HE400i capabilities after realizing how good HE400i are for the price.

 
 

With the 400i I feel the bass is ALL there, you just don't get that same impact at the onset of each hit and you don't have the ringing (might be using this term incorrectly) associated with dynamics so the hit ends more accurately and I believe this is perceived as a thinner, dryer bass if you aren't used to planars. The advantage though which takes some time to appreciate is the detail and texture in the bass, especially when there are multiple bass notes or hits being played. It's not the one note bass of many other headphones but something more precise and clean. When a person has been groomed on congested, ringing dynamics (maybe a bad generalization), hearing a planar for the first time is underwhelming until you begin to appreciate the speed and detail.

I swap these back and forth with the THX00 Mahogany or PH and these still have something to offer and are far less fatiguing. I haven't dialed it in, but I think the 400i do better for real instrumental bass over electronically produced bass.

Bottomline is that if I could increase the impact of bass (maybe the magnitude) with these planars and keep the detail, speed, maybe widen the soundstage, that would be a gem. Up and up the chain or perhaps not I don't know. I've heard the HD800 once on a VERY NICE setup and it was great though it was in a noisy room so I don't know if this fulfills my description above.

 
To reiterate some of my older posts: coming from dynamics, getting used to the planar sound takes a wee bit of a time, they can sound bass-shy, even for the first weeks.
 
My other impressions:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/698974/hifiman-he-400i-impressions-and-discussion/9690#post_12865703
http://www.head-fi.org/t/698974/hifiman-he-400i-impressions-and-discussion/9690#post_12865610
 
The brain burn-in is a thing, and I considered the 400i bass shy coming from a widely reported bass-shy-Q701 first. Not any longer.

 

[apaar123]

How is its sound quality compared to Meze 99 and akg k712 pro? Is it different from them?

 

[Triggaaar]

Quote:

 
new Fulla2 looks like a good bet.

 

 
dragonfly red or black pair very well with HE400i.

 
 
I've been stalking you on several threads fjrabon, your posts are really informative, thanks.
 
I've got a 400i doing a tour of the US before it hopefully lands with me in the UK. I've also just got an HD650 (pre-owned). I don't yet have a dedicated amp. I have a DAC I can use for the time being. This is my plan:
 
Get a desktop amp (say Magni 2 or Fiio K5) to use with both headphones.
Get a portable amp (say dragonfly red or black, or Fiio K1) to use with the 400i with a phone on the sofa etc.
 
I'll then enjoy the 2 pairs of headphones for a while and see if I want to keep both, or switch either for something similar (X2, HD600 etc).
 
If I was in the US I'd just order the Magni (or uber), but it's (unreasonably) more expensive here. Have you any experience of the Fiio amps, and can you give any advice?
 
Thanks

 

[fjrabon]

   
 
 
I've been stalking you on several threads fjrabon, your posts are really informative, thanks.
 
I've got a 400i doing a tour of the US before it hopefully lands with me in the UK. I've also just got an HD650 (pre-owned). I don't yet have a dedicated amp. I have a DAC I can use for the time being. This is my plan:
 
Get a desktop amp (say Magni 2 or Fiio K5) to use with both headphones.
Get a portable amp (say dragonfly red or black, or Fiio K1) to use with the 400i with a phone on the sofa etc.
 
I'll then enjoy the 2 pairs of headphones for a while and see if I want to keep both, or switch either for something similar (X2, HD600 etc).
 
If I was in the US I'd just order the Magni (or uber), but it's (unreasonably) more expensive here. Have you any experience of the Fiio amps, and can you give any advice?
 
Thanks

I had one of the first mini FiiO amps back in like 2004 or sometime around then.  I liked it.  But I haven't had once since then, or even tried them at a meet.  Wish I could be of more help there.  If you do end up going the Schitt route, to me, there's no reason to buy the modi or magni at this point.  I'd just go for the Fulla2, ModiMultibit, Vali2 or jotenheim and skip the modi/magni level.  

Amp wise I'm sure the FiiO line is fine for the HE400i.  It's one of the easiest to amp headphones I've had, just about anything that's relatively clean powers it well.

 

[Triggaaar]

 
I had one of the first mini FiiO amps back in like 2004 or sometime around then.  I liked it.  But I haven't had once since then, or even tried them at a meet.  Wish I could be of more help there.  If you do end up going the Schitt route, to me, there's no reason to buy the modi or magni at this point.  I'd just go for the Fulla2, ModiMultibit, Vali2 or jotenheim and skip the modi/magni level.  

Amp wise I'm sure the FiiO line is fine for the HE400i.  It's one of the easiest to amp headphones I've had, just about anything that's relatively clean powers it well.

Thank you for the reply. I also have have the HD650 though, which requires a little more power.
 
You've thrown me completely What's the reasoning for skipping the Magni? Is it not better (for me) than the Fulla2? More power (for the HD650s), lower output impedance. The others push the budget up. Not an impossible option, but I thought the Magni would be enough for my needs.
 
Thanks again.
 
EDIT - just looked at the Full on YT - it's horrible! It might sound ok, but it's nasty. What are you trying to do to me?

 

[fjrabon]

Thank you for the reply. I also have have the HD650 though, which requires a little more power.

You've thrown me completely What's the reasoning for skipping the Magni? Is it not better (for me) than the Fulla2? More power (for the HD650s), lower output impedance. The others push the budget up. Not an impossible option, but I thought the Magni would be enough for my needs.

Thanks again.

EDIT - just looked at the Full on YT - it's horrible! It might sound ok, but it's nasty. What are you trying to do to me?

I'm just not a big fan of the magni and Modi, to me they always sounded a bit on the harsh side, especially with a headphone that can be harsh under the wrong circumstances like the HE400i. The Fulla2 (note that schitt just massively updated it, not sure which version you saw) should have plenty of power for a HD600 and should match the Modi/magni stack in terms of sound quality.

If you need something that works well for both, I'd suggest hybrid amps.

 

[Triggaaar]

I'm just not a big fan of the magni and Modi, to me they always sounded a bit on the harsh side, especially with a headphone that can be harsh under the wrong circumstances like the HE400i. The Fulla2 (note that schitt just massively updated it, not sure which version you saw) should have plenty of power for a HD600 and should match the Modi/magni stack in terms of sound quality.

If you need something that works well for both, I'd suggest hybrid amps.

You're right, I was looking at the old Fulla - the 2 looks much much better
 
I think you used to like the Magni with the 400i (I'm not trying to correct you or anything smartarse here, I'm here to learn):
"The Lyr is overkill for the HE400i.  It's a GREAT amp, but the HE400i doesn't need it.  I'd get the Magni Uber if I were building a system for the HE400i. Just for the HE400i, I think the Bitfrost ($399 DAC) + Magni Uber is a better system than the Modi + Lyr."
Like I said, I've been stalking you
 
I will apologise profusely if I've got that wrong. It might have been the early models, and it's not the modi DAC you were recommending, you were just saying that the 400i didn't need more power than the Magni.
 
Back to where we are though - that Fulla is certainly cheap, if it's as good (with the 650 and 400i) it's a bargain.
 
By hybrid, you mean the Vali 2? I thought I'd be better with a long term reliable solid state amp. I could get a used Vali 1 for not too much, but I'm not sure it's worth it.
 
What does the ModiMultibit have over the Uber - a better DAC? I'm not sure I could tell the difference.
 
Many thanks for the advice, much appreciated.

 

[fjrabon]

You're right, I was looking at the old Fulla - the 2 looks much much better

I think you used to like the Magni with the 400i (I'm not trying to correct you or anything smartarse here, I'm here to learn):
"The Lyr is overkill for the HE400i.  It's a GREAT amp, but the HE400i doesn't need it.  I'd get the Magni Uber if I were building a system for the HE400i. Just for the HE400i, I think the Bitfrost ($399 DAC) + Magni Uber is a better system than the Modi + Lyr."
Like I said, I've been stalking you

I will apologise profusely if I've got that wrong. It might have been the early models, and it's not the modi DAC you were recommending, you were just saying that the 400i didn't need more power than the Magni.

Back to where we are though - that Fulla is certainly cheap, if it's as good (with the 650 and 400i) it's a bargain.

By hybrid, you mean the Vali 2? I thought I'd be better with a long term reliable solid state amp. I could get a used Vali 1 for not too much, but I'm not sure it's worth it.

What does the ModiMultibit have over the Uber - a better DAC? I'm not sure I could tell the difference.

Many thanks for the advice, much appreciated.

No you're right, I used to think it was fine at it's price range. But the release of the Vali2 (the Vali 1 was a microphonic piece of junk with weird gain levels, the 2 fixed all that), Modi Multibit and Fulla2 changed my mind on the Modi Magni stack. The Modi Magni stack is fine, but has simply been passed in Schitt's line on both the cheaper and more expensive sides value wise. To me, either go with the Fulla2 and save the cash or step up to the Modi Multibit + Vali2 level, which is dramatically better, especially with the HE400I