[mike138]

  I've just bought the HE-400i. Hope, I'll not be dissapinted. They're my first full-sized cans and secon "audiophile" headphones (the first was Earsonics SM-3 which unfortunatelly was stolen ). 
 
Now I'm looking for portable player to work with the HE-400i. I don't like the idea of using headphone amp and player, because I don't want to carry two devices in my bag / pocket. I'd prefer an integrated device. 

Now I'm considering to get one of these: Fiio X3-II, Fiio X5 or Fiio X5-II. I don't have a very huge budget, so the price does matter for me. Can you coment on this or advice another player with powerfull integrated amp under 25o USD? 

Thanks and sorry for my English.

I have the Fiio X3-II and I really like the pairing. It doesn't need an amplifier. 

 

[DavidA]

  Thank you. Interesting thoughts. So you do consider the LCD 2.2 to be mid-fi? I was always under the impression that it was considered higher end. I'm at a tipping point where even though I could afford an upper-tier headphone system, I just think the value proposition isn't worth it since I feel it's better served dumping those funds in a speaker setup.

I would go with speakers, I rather listen with them but since I live in a high rise not always practical.   LCD-2.2 is better than mid-fi to me but everyone's scale is different, to me they are great sounding but just too heavy.

 

[Change is Good]

  I don't have a lot of experience listening to high-end headphones, but how big is the performance difference between the 400i and some other headphones with similar sound signatures that are considered "high-end" keeping in mind diminishing returns?  Headphones like the HE560, LCD-2?
 
I'm a fan of getting the most performance per dollar and small, incremental sound differences aren't really worth it to me. I am willing to spend more if the differences are substantial, however.
 
Are the 400i viable "end game" headphones?

 
 

  Short answer: Yes, they can be end game headphones.
 
Other headphones that have a similar sound signature would be HD-600/650, SRH-1840, and to some the LCD-2f.  For me I would also include custom built headphones like a ypsilon driver in a Grado style wood cup and some say that the latest entry from Nhoord is also a really good driver.
 
To me the price difference between the HE-400i and HE-560 is worth it but the rest of your audio chain will need to be up to the task.  Had a fellow Head-Fier over and had a listen with his Chord Hugo and the Ether C that he brought along.  The Hugo is one of the better pairing with the HE-560 that I've heard in a while, almost as good as with the Liquid Glass.  The HE-400i is quite far behind the HE-560 if using good gear since it doesn't scale as much as the HE-560 from what I have experienced so far.
 
The HD-650 with a decent amp will be fairly close or slightly better than the HE-400i depending on what your taste in sound signature is but if you have some higher end OTL or hybrid amps then the HD-650 is quite a bit ahead of the HE-400i IMO.
 
The LCD-2f is technically better than the HE-400i but its more a different sound signature to me and will also depend on the genre of music that you primarily listen to.  One of the nice traits of both the HE-400i and LCD-2f is that they are not very amp picky and are relatively easier to drive than the Senns & HE-560.
 

 

 
To more or less echo what David said, if you aren't going to spend a couple thousand dollars on amps and DACs, I don't think you could do much better than the HE400i.  Throw a decent midlevel amp/DAC combo at it, and it shines.  Out of my m9XX, with no EQ applied, I very slightly prefer my HD800 to the HE400i, but it's not a huge difference.  With EQ applied to the HD800, it starts to pull away, as it just has soundstage and resolution that the HE400i can't quite match no matter what you have in front of it.  I think the HE400i stands toe to toe with the HD650, even if you put a world class system in front of the HD650, but that's probably partly a function of slightly preferring the sound signature of the HE400i to the HD650.  With a fully equalized HD650 and a fully equalized HE400i (through sonarworks), I think the HE400i completely matches the HD650, even if you feed the HE400i an inferior amp to what you're feeding the HD650.  
 
So, basically to sum this up: the HE400i is to me equal to anything else in "mid-fi" and is much more amp versatile as well.  It may or may not not be your dream headphone, depending on whether or not its signature fits what you're after.  Some will prefer the HD650's smooth signature, some will prefer the LCD2.2's more authoritative bass and smooth/rolled off treble, some will prefer the excitement of a Grado RS2e/GH1.  But nothing in mid-fi world will beat the HE400i technically.  Plus the HE400i has the advantage of not requiring "just the right amp" to get the most of it.  It sounds more or less the same when being fed a Schiit Modi2Uber as a Ragnarok.  
 
Now, yes, when you get to the next level, the HE400i does fall behind.  It acquits itself well, and doesn't sound bad, but it's not going to match a system built around a HD800/HD800S, HE560, HE1000, LCD3/4, Focal Elear/Utopia, etc.  But at that point we are talking $1000-2000 for an amp and $300-$3000 for a DAC (I only say $300 because my mind is still being blown by the value of the Modi Multibit) and maybe a couple hundred dollars for the right DSP software, if you're using it.  That's before we even get to the cost of the headphone.  Non-head-fi friends of mine can clearly hear the superiority of my Sonarworks -> GoodHertz CanOpener -> iDAC6/Modi Multibit -> ECP Torpedo III system in comparison to say the modi-multibit -> HiFiMan EF2C -> HE400i system.  Do they think it's worth the money? No, of course not.  But they do recognize it's better, while not being afflicted with our obsessive sound quality disease.  

 
I have have to agree with these guys. Now, I have yet to dive into summit-fi but I have owned my fair share of mid-fi headphones. The 400i is as good as it gets and is definitely an end-game candidate in its price range for open headphones. Everything else under $400 (HD600, HD650, SRH1840) will be more of a sidegrade and sound preference thing. To add to DavidA's comparisons, I concur that the 400i does indeed sound very similar to the SRH1840 (previously owned), which I've read sounds similar to the HD600 (never heard but researched plenty). At the end of the day it boils down to whichever is priced the lowest and what sound you prefer.

 

[fjrabon]

  Thank you. Interesting thoughts. So you do consider the LCD 2.2 to be mid-fi? I was always under the impression that it was considered higher end. I'm at a tipping point where even though I could afford an upper-tier headphone system, I just think the value proposition isn't worth it since I feel it's better served dumping those funds in a speaker setup.

it's one of those headphones that straddles the line between mid-fi and high end.  I really like the LCD2.2f, but I have issues with its bulk, plus it would be entirely a "only use at home" headphone for me and the HD800 has that role exclusively.  If I was forced to pick between a LCD2.2f and a HE400i, I'd say they fight to more or less a draw in sound quality but the HE400i wins out on comfort.  But that will, again, also depend on your tonal preferences.  

 

[NaiveSound]

I have received se846 today.... I reunited with my old babes.

However things aren't the way they used to be.... I just don't like them. They sound dark and veiled. I can't even started d the treble anymore.... (yes I did the white filter)

It had clarity, but in darkness. I compared them to. My he 400i and he400i wins. Even asked my girl to try them out. He400i won hands down.

Looks like I'll. Have to sell them. They just aren't what I remembered






In the past I would talk bad about he400i, but now I realize, compared to the se846 which I used to love... They are way way way above it in just about any way (both with Mojo) I actually enjoy he400i even better.

Closing the eBay listing now. These are keepers... The thing is I got. Upgraditis.... And I just want thr 400i...but better.. More forward mids. More clarity, higher resolution.


Im in awe

 

[drwlf]

I have received se846 today.... I reunited with my old babes.

However things aren't the way they used to be.... I just don't like them. They sound dark and veiled. I can't even started d the treble anymore.... (yes I did the white filter)

It had clarity, but in darkness. I compared them to. My he 400i and he400i wins. Even asked my girl to try them out. He400i won hands down.

Looks like I'll. Have to sell them. They just aren't what I remembered






In the past I would talk bad about he400i, but now I realize, compared to the se846 which I used to love... They are way way way above it in just about any way (both with Mojo) I actually enjoy he400i even better.

Closing the eBay listing now. These are keepers... The thing is I got. Upgraditis.... And I just want thr 400i...but better.. More forward mids. More clarity, higher resolution.


Im in awe

 
How the tables have turned, but then again - I hope you listened to them for more than a day, due to burn in, mechanical or psychological.
I guess the HE-560 might be a viable thing to test out then, perhaps not in an endgame way though.

 

[NaiveSound]

How the tables have turned, but then again - I hope you listened to them for more than a day, due to burn in, mechanical or psychological.
I guess the HE-560 might be a viable thing to test out then, perhaps not in an endgame way though.

I guess so, the pair I bought was burned in. I listened critically for about 45 mins ans just hated the se846, I listen to an hour after that on he400i and just loved them. I find the se846 slightly clearer but very dark. Idk just hate them. Got se846 at 600$ hopefully I can break even.

I guess I'm looking for a 400i...but better haha it just more of it. Better clarity and resolution. Maybe 560 would be it. Maybe some other iem like Zeus idk

 

[drwlf]

I guess so, the pair I bought was burned in. I listened critically for about 45 mins ans just hated the se846, I listen to an hour after that on he400i and just loved them. I find the se846 slightly clearer but very dark. Idk just hate them. Got se846 at 600$ hopefully I can break even.

I guess I'm looking for a 400i...but better haha it just more of it. Better clarity and resolution. Maybe 560 would be it. Maybe some other iem like Zeus idk

 
If I recall your earlier posts correctly, you're planning on TOTL?
I guess the consensus now would be pointing towards the Focal Elear/Utopia for clarity and dynamics aka. hyped game-changers, which should be relatively easily driven - even with Mojo, or the new Ether Flows or HE-1000 v2, for the planar continuity and personal tastes for a mellower sound - perhaps lacking something in the attack department vs. the HE-400i though.
I hope you can get to test the next cans prior to purchase, we're happy to hear your impressions on anything!

 

[Vanheim]

Hey guys,
 
So, I ended up selling my hifimans and have indeed (as planned) jumped on a ZMF cherry Omni on the B-stock sale. Roughly twelve days until I get my hands on them. This hi-fi journey has been pretty cool so far. I'm also saving up for a schiit modi-multibit. And maybe a jotunheim in the future. I miss the mids of the hifiman to be honest. Can't wait to hear what the Omni brings to the table!
 
cheers and happy listening!

 

[DatPixel]

I also find them very good. Very honest sounding, they don't emphasize anything.
I have to double check, but are they dynamic or orthos?
I will be wrong, most likely, but they sound like dynamic headphones to me.

 

[mike138]

I also find them very good. Very honest sounding, they don't emphasize anything.
I have to double check, but are they dynamic or orthos?
I will be wrong, most likely, but they sound like dynamic headphones to me.

Planar Magnetic.

 

[NaiveSound]

Looking for an iem to exceed quality of motion open back hps... Lookin at thr Empire Ears Zeus. I wonder if it can compete with hd800... Lcd x ect... Anyone know?

 

[swspiers]

Looking for an iem to exceed quality of motion open back hps... Lookin at thr Empire Ears Zeus. I wonder if it can compete with hd800... Lcd x ect... Anyone know?

You might have better luck, and better responses in the thread or for him the deals with IEM's. This one is kind of devoted to the 400 i's.

 

[drwlf]

Misc FYI and an odd occurrence:
 
Just to recap; I'm using the Brainwavz Angled HM5 Pads instead of the stock Focus Pads, (the comparison should be inc, too much worky, family /w kiddo and other RL!), but anyways: one of the stock rings' attachments/attachment points had slipped off (not all of them), creating a loose(r) seal.
 
I noticed this by wondering on how the sub-bass on some tracks seemed off-center, along with driver matching tests. At least to me, it was quite a difference in the sound, and oddly enough, more bass quantity towards the pad with a looser seal.
 
Visually the seal, as in the ring+pad were attached just OK to the cup/driver enclosure, but I noticed I could lift one part of the ring a bit from the cup - hence, one attachment point missing.
 
Although the HM5 Angleds are quite a snug fit, as in almost bending the stock ring (had to bend to install, but the ring formed back to a circle, creating the tight fit it now has), I suspect this *could* happen with the stock Focus ones, although, with what effect?

 

[NaiveSound]

This is how I feel right now