[bracko]

  When I first got the HE-400i I though it was better than the HD-650 but after getting the BH Crack the HD-650 just does most genres of music better for me.  And after hearing the HD-650 with driven by a EC Balancing Act a few months ago there is no contest. 
 
If there are any musicians here do you feel that the HE-400i sounds like the instrument that you play?  I was playing around with my old Bach Stradivarius trumpet and my GF was listening to Chuck Mangione with the HE-400i and she said that it sound off compared to the what she was hearing from the trumpet so she started to try different headphones and after a while she felt that the HD-650/600, LCD-2, SRH-1840 and one of the SennGrado's that I had built were the most realistic sounding to her.  Okay, now that the second bottle of wine is done its time to get some shut eye, hope everyone is having a great Thanksgiving weekend.

Too much wine I guess

 While I think HE-400i is very transparent I agree that it probably lacks in this respect compared to HD650 and especially HE-500. On the other hand I think HE-400i is a better and more enjoyable headphone overall than HD650, no matter what amp you use. BH Crack will add some tube distortion to the sound which could make HD650 sound better to some ears. I personally prefer a good solid state amp with HD650, no contest. Using an amp costing $4000 to drive any headphones is simply waste of money, imho.

 

[TMRaven]

HE-400i has coloration from 2-5khz that HD650 lacks.  I could see how an experienced musician could see something sounding off when that crucial lower harmonic range is off.
 
From my experience, HD650/600 and LCD2/3 have had the most realistic midrange out of any headphones I've tried.

 

[bracko]

  HE-400i has coloration from 2-5khz that HD650 lacks.  I could see how an experienced musician could see something sounding off when that crucial lower harmonic range is off.
 
From my experience, HD650/600 and LCD2/3 have had the most realistic midrange out of any headphones I've tried.

Headphone sound is not only about the "coloration" in the FR. There is also distortion, dynamics, decay etc. All of these factors contribute to a "natural" sound. Talking about the coloration, I think HD650 is far from not being colored. It is also quite slow. 

 

[fjrabon]

Headphone sound is not only about the "coloration" in the FR. There is also distortion, dynamics, decay etc. All of these factors contribute to a "natural" sound. Talking about the coloration, I think HD650 is far from not being colored. It is also quite slow. 

The issue with the HD650 is that it's ultra amp picky to sound truly great. It needs a high power yet analytical and neutral tube amp to shake the veil. A lot of amps can get it sounding very good, but it takes a behemoth to get it sounding truly great. Ultimately that's why I sold mine, as I wanted a headphone that was more versatile. The HD650 sounds great with the Crack, yes. But I was tired of needing the crack to get it there. Also why I never bothered with most planars until the 400i.

The 400i is way less picky about amping, however if your amp is at all colored it will reflect that. Out of my SSHM hybrid build, it sounds warm and smooth. Out of the Grace M9XX it sounds transparent, vibrant and lifelike. Out of my Audioengine D1 it sounds warm and powerful. Out of an O2 it sounds precise and resolving. It's a headphone that takes what you give it and presents it as best as can be done.

 

[bracko]

The issue with the HD650 is that it's ultra amp picky to sound truly great. It needs a high power yet analytical and neutral tube amp to shake the veil. A lot of amps can get it sounding very good, but it takes a behemoth to get it sounding truly great. Ultimately that's why I sold mine, as I wanted a headphone that was more versatile. The HD650 sounds great with the Crack, yes. But I was tired of needing the crack to get it there. Also why I never bothered with most planars until the 400i.

The 400i is way less picky about amping, however if your amp is at all colored it will reflect that. Out of my SSHM hybrid build, it sounds warm and smooth. Out of the Grace M9XX it sounds transparent, vibrant and lifelike. Out of my Audioengine D1 it sounds warm and powerful. Out of an O2 it sounds precise and resolving. It's a headphone that takes what you give it and presents it as best as can be done.

I have had my HD650 for almost 10 years. I have heard it from different solid-state and tube/hybrid ampr costing up to 2500€, even the BH crack. In my opinion it is not ultra amp picky. It sounds great straight out of my O2. Yes, some better amps are able to produce better results with my HD650 but for me, the difference is far from being "day and night". 
 
Is it a bold statement if I say that for me HE-400i is a nicer headphone overall no matter what amp I use with my HD650. 

 

[Nick727]

Yesterday some close family friends were over and one of the kids is about 15 years old. Someone brought up getting new headphones for Christmas so I said what do you want? He started saying how he wants new Beats because his old pair broke. I tried explaining to him how there's much better options for the price and how he loves the bass on the beats. I didn't say anything else except show him the 400i. He was flawed, he said he never heard something so amazing in his life. He wants a pair now. I may have created a new Head-Hier'.

 

[mysticstryk]

  Yesterday some close family friends were over and one of the kids is about 15 years old. Someone brought up getting new headphones for Christmas so I said what do you want? He started saying how he wants new Beats because his old pair broke. I tried explaining to him how there's much better options for the price and how he loves the bass on the beats. I didn't say anything else except show him the 400i. He was flawed, he said he never heard something so amazing in his life. He wants a pair now. I may have created a new Head-Hier'.

Lol, I've done this very thing with some of my friends and family.  They all have nice headphones or iems now.

 

[fjrabon]

I have had my HD650 for almost 10 years. I have heard it from different solid-state and tube/hybrid ampr costing up to 2500€, even the BH crack. In my opinion it is not ultra amp picky. It sounds great straight out of my O2. Yes, some better amps are able to produce better results with my HD650 but for me, the difference is far from being "day and night". 

Is it a bold statement if I say that for me HE-400i is a nicer headphone overall no matter what amp I use with my HD650. 

I felt that with just the right setup I could get the HD650 VERY close to the HE400i in speed, clarity and neutrality with the Hd650's wider soundstage. But even then I thought they were a draw. If the HD650wasnt amped just right the HE400i was clearly better. I recently went through a decision that I wanted to immensely simplify my setup and the HD650 just didn't fit into that aim.

I was never a huge fan of the O2 with the HD650. With lower gain it sounded lazy, with higher gain setting it lost its character smoothness. Though maybe the newer high gain setting on the O2 revision 2 pairs better.

I loved my HD650, but I think the HE400i is just overall a better headphone.

 

[Sonic Defender]

  Yesterday some close family friends were over and one of the kids is about 15 years old. Someone brought up getting new headphones for Christmas so I said what do you want? He started saying how he wants new Beats because his old pair broke. I tried explaining to him how there's much better options for the price and how he loves the bass on the beats. I didn't say anything else except show him the 400i. He was flawed, he said he never heard something so amazing in his life. He wants a pair now. I may have created a new Head-Hier'.

A 15 year old wants portable headphones, which of course the 400i aren't. Did you suggest a portable alternative for him? Good work being a sound quality activist!

 

[Sonic Defender]

  I have had my HD650 for almost 10 years. I have heard it from different solid-state and tube/hybrid ampr costing up to 2500€, even the BH crack. In my opinion it is not ultra amp picky. It sounds great straight out of my O2. Yes, some better amps are able to produce better results with my HD650 but for me, the difference is far from being "day and night". 
 
Is it a bold statement if I say that for me HE-400i is a nicer headphone overall no matter what amp I use with my HD650. 

Not at all, I also feel the 400i is clearly the better headphone.

 

[mysticstryk]

What do you guys feel makes the 400i the clear winner against the hd650?

Personally I'm finding the speed to be doing wonders with some of my music, particularly symphonic metal.

 

[TMRaven]

  Headphone sound is not only about the "coloration" in the FR. There is also distortion, dynamics, decay etc. All of these factors contribute to a "natural" sound. Talking about the coloration, I think HD650 is far from not being colored. It is also quite slow. 

Never in my post did I say that "headphone sound is only about the coloration in the FR."  The slowness of the 650 (and 600) is overstated these days on Head-Fi.   The older black driver HD650 might have been a mushy mess, but the silver-lined ones are not very veiled, and are amongst the most resolving headphones on the market, even if they lack in bass and treble extension.  The 400i also has a nice spike around 9khz that can make the 650 sound very subdued in comparison.

 

[fjrabon]

What do you guys feel makes the 400i the clear winner against the hd650?

Personally I'm finding the speed to be doing wonders with some of my music, particularly symphonic metal.

Basically that. To me the HE400i sounds like a faster, more transparent version of the HD650, but with a narrower soundstage. I don't mind the narrower soundstage at all, so it's a trade off ill make on everything but a very small minority of music. The 400i can, at times, make the HD650 sound like molasses. That's no slander on the HD650 though, simply a reflection of how incredible the HE400i is. For music that wants ultimate soundstage, I can turn to my humble Audio Technica AD700.

 

[bavinck]

OK, so regarding the hd650 vs 400i this guys describes if very well. Not everyone is into jazz, but jazz is very good for testing the sonic abilities of a headphone due to its inability to hide inperfection in the music.

Check it:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/762957/from-sennheiser-hd-650-to-hifiman-he-400i-theres-no-way-back

 

[bavinck]

Anyone bend the Headband to lessen the clamping force?