[SiBurning]

Quote:

Originally Posted by electropop /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do I make sense?

No. I don't suppose either of us makes sense to anyone else. What I've found is that I can learn to understand how someone expresses music after spending some time with them at a meet listening to gear and correlating how they talk with the equipment and music. Some people are better at this and can relate a lot easier. Not me.

 

[electropop]

Hmm.. Didn't you think the picture was a clear illustration and do you deny that it is a differing factor between audio gear? It's one of the most important and obvious characteristics when comparing gear, to my ears.

Few things I'm going to suggest about the HM801 in the debug thread.. Too tired now. Good night peeps!

 

[foreverfi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by testrichard /img/forum/go_quote.gif i dont find that a good thing actually,i mean all the hype around. to be honest i think that could drive things to other way around and i mean that could easily destroy a young company when the hype/fame comes too quick and strong for example i m eager to test out RE0(waiting for the shipment) after reading all the positive review. but then i wonder how many of poster really heard it? reason being i realize at one stage i myself chip in and wrote about it(like answering others question as what it might song like ER4P etc) while i never own one..... its a common mistake when the hype gets so high. it can turn back against you when your expectation turn into disappointment. i m very positive about head-direct's product at this stage, but i like to stay true and not being a blind follower.so i will only command on RE0 if i actually hear it.so far i can tell you my 801 is worth the wait and every penny

I total agree with you. This is what I have said that I don't need to add in more praised words on HIFIMAN. And I don't like to criticize HIFIMAN, for at this stage, any different opinions is not welcome. I would like to reserve my conclusion. I think this is the best way to protect a new player.

As I have said many times, I do hope HIFIMAN will be the best DAP in the market.

 

[foreverfi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrahmaBull9813 /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's cool how you got that to rhyme. If you read back your post, it should seem like you were outraged that GreenLeo decided to put the HiFiMan HM-801 on a pedestal (although, probably rightfully so). The HiFiMan HM-801 seems to be the newest product of all. Mr. Fang Bian has been to many conventions (See Here) and I'm certain he's been through those players (although not definite). Also, the HiFiMan HM-801, although it's young, has already gained legendary notoriety amongst the audiophiles here. So it should be credible. Let me bring it down to a tee. I don't own the player (not yet), but the vibe I get when I research about it is unbearably strong (in a positive way). If you really like those other players, then that's fine. The HM-801 isn't challenging them, but doing its own thing and being damn good at it. The choice to compare is up to those who want to. Your ears distinguish what you like best. Although, I presume that we all have characteristically similar hearing; I would say that our experiences lead us to different perspectives even in the realm of sonic pleasures. I also see that you have the HM-801. I don't understand the resentment you took in place when you read that GreenLeo didn't like the AMP3 as much as the HiFiMan HM-801. Shouldn't your impression already have been established? Moreover, isn't sound quality the most important to you (even if the AMP3 has 100 hours of battery life in comparison to the 7-9 of the HM-801).

Some bodies misunderstand me.

I am not the fanboy of AMP3. MR-1 and SONY X. I just want to express that as a conclusion judgement, It must be based on tremendous A/B/C comparing listening sessions. The serious reviews need at least one month for the testiing. Usually the home audio rigs need about harlf a year to make a audio products conclusion.

If some one make a conclusion based on the imagine, I don't think it is suitable. Especially, he can think HFIMAN is the best one, but he can't devalue other brands to support HFIMAN is the best one, this method is not so serious.

Until now, I have no any words on damaging HIFIMAN fames and offence other persons. Anybody can make any conclusion, but it must based on the truth and properly expressing means.

 

[BrahmaBull9813]

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverfi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Until now, I have no any words on damaging HIFIMAN fames and offence other persons. Anybody can make any conclusion, but it must based on the truth and properly expressing means.

This, I agree with.

Right now, the distribution of the HM-801 is at a very limited stage. In this way, those comparisons could take a long time. Although, the HiFiMan should deliver the most overall, in my opinion.

We need some legitimate reviews simply detailing the player and inaugurating its core fundamental values to all audiophiles. I don't know if I agree with an earlier poster who said reviews are plentiful. I've seen many scattered and very minute impressions of the unit. I'm actually sort of surprised that, even though the reaction to the player was strong, nobody has yet stepped up to the plate to really review it.

 

[SiBurning]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrahmaBull9813 /img/forum/go_quote.gif This, I agree with. Right now, the distribution of the HM-801 is at a very limited stage. In this way, those comparisons could take a long time. Although, the HiFiMan should deliver the most overall, in my opinion. We need some legitimate reviews simply detailing the player and inaugurating its core fundamental values to all audiophiles. I don't know if I agree with an earlier poster who said reviews are plentiful. I've seen many scattered and very minute impressions of the unit. I'm actually sort of surprised that, even though the reaction to the player was strong, nobody has yet stepped up to the plate to really review it.

What specifically is missing?

 

[BrahmaBull9813]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiBurning /img/forum/go_quote.gif What specifically is missing?

A layman's impression of the player in a distinct and plausible manner.

Meaning, if I'm looking for a product, I search for reviews in two ways. I search for the C-Net Type of Review ('expert's' impression/rating vs. consumer impression/rating), Customer Reactions (usually on Amazon or the like), and just a layman's impression of the player (where a person handles the player and shows pictures of it used in different environments or the images of the navigation of the menus or the visually imaged uses of its buttons).

For the HM-801, I've read some reviews which give me an impression of the unit (such as those in the links from the topic post) and from sifting through this topic, google, and the pre-order topic. However, it's scattered and many of the reviews were just comments about the player given upon request.

I read your review. It's interesting to say the least. However, I'm not familiar with a lot of the terminology used in it (Portiphile being something I've never heard of, for instance), so it leaves me scratching my head a lot (no offense). This is for others, by the way, so they can read and buy the HM-801 with a good understanding of it. I've already determined that I really really want it.

For a beastly player that has been in the hands of those for months, I'm kind of let down by the idea that nobody has made a specific attempt to encourage others to enjoy what they are by offering them a better understanding of what they have.

I also would like to thank you for your contribution of your impressions of the player.

I only hope Fang can expand his dreams and bring the whole world into a state of sonic bliss.

 

[testrichard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrahmaBull9813 /img/forum/go_quote.gif A layman's impression of the player in a distinct and plausible manner. Meaning, if I'm looking for a product, I search for reviews in two ways. I search for the C-Net Type of Review ('expert's' impression/rating vs. consumer impression/rating), Customer Reactions (usually on Amazon or the like), and just a layman's impression of the player (where a person handles the player and shows pictures of it used in different environments or the images of the navigation of the menus or the visually imaged uses of its buttons). For the HM-801, I've read some reviews which give me an impression of the unit (such as those in the links from the topic post) and from sifting through this topic, google, and the pre-order topic. However, it's scattered and many of the reviews were just comments about the player given upon request. I read your review. It's interesting to say the least. However, I'm not familiar with a lot of the terminology used in it (Portiphile being something I've never heard of, for instance), so it leaves me scratching my head a lot (no offense). This is for others, by the way, so they can read and buy the HM-801 with a good understanding of it. I've already determined that I really really want it. For a beastly player that has been in the hands of those for months, I'm kind of let down by the idea that nobody has made a specific attempt to encourage others to enjoy what they are by offering them a better understanding of what they have. I also would like to thank you for your contribution of your impressions of the player. I only hope Fang can expand his dreams and bring the whole world into a state of sonic bliss.

what makes you said Cnet 's creditable source ?? they get revenue from advertise so they r not completely creditable ~ even S&P or moody's are not totally creditable now after they mess up the whole world's economic with their stupid credit rating base on receiving revenue from rating their client's bond !

i get the feeling that you r trying extremely hard to hard press every one to write a review so you can justify the purchase of hifiman 801 ~

this is not the right way actually, we wrote review or impression because we r in joy and wanna share the feeling of joy to other peoples , let them know how we felt about particular product.... but if writing an impression became pressure then it simply loss the purpose~

i own 801 and i got nothing to prove, only sharing my happiness! but even that will depend on my mood and how i felt on the day.

i wrote this reply simply want to point out you r starting to hard press people. so please just relax and if the review come out, its a plus~ otherwise sooner or later some one will write about it, no need to press.

saying so, i totally understand your feeling as i was in your shoes in that miserable 4 months of waiting and back then it was even worst consider even less information available. its a valuable lesson i learn and will be much more careful with less expectation if ordering custom audio staff in the future

 

[GreenLeo]

Hi BrahmaBull9813,

No idea what types of music that enjoy but please bear in mind that if you enjoy classical music very much, it may be worth while to bring an amp with you. Today I just tried the 801 with a piece of classical music, the straight output was inferior to the results of the lineout to the Corda Move. The articulation the Move gave seemed better and the dynamic was better.

I'm not a classical head-fier and I enjoy vocals, musicals and live performance a lot, so I'm not sure if this piece of info may help. Like testrichard, both of us have waited for a very long time for the 801 and what we could tell you were that the 801 was worth every penny. If possible, go to a meet to have a try. It will eliminate lots of uncertainty if you're lucky.

Have a Merry X'mas, you and everybody.

 

[corsario]

Hi BrahmaBull9813,

I have got a different feeling than GreenLeo.

I listen to classical music all the day with my Hifiman (and especially audiophile classical music), from piano and chamber music to concertos and symphonies.

I had in mind to wait a little bit to make a serious review.
But since you are in a hurry, I go with my opinion instead (well, an opinion based on some quick A/B listening already).

First of all, I listen to the Hifiman 810 with an IEM with a 124 dB sensitivity (Earsonics EM3 PRO) (for those of you who do not know the EM3 PRO, think to the EM3-PRO as the french JH13 PRO - I never listen to the JH13 sadly, but the EM3 is the flagship of french company Earsonics and used by a lot of PRO french groups and musicians and sound engineer - same usage than the JH13 PRO. I still hop someday to listen to the JH13 PRO to make a comparison). Otherwise, I listen at home with a STAX Omega 2 and a PC+Lynx 2B as a source.

Before the Hifiman 810 I had (and still have) a rockboxed iRiver H340. It was clear to me that the iRiver was not up to the level of the Lynx2B. Furthermore using the iRiver with the EM3 PRO I could hear a background noise (due to the IEM high sensitivity).
Otherwise I was happy with the isolation of the EM3 PRO and their detailed sound, which could remind me of my Stax when I was on the run. But not as clear and detailed, because of the source.

Now I received the Hifiman (first batch, ordered 7 august) two weeks ago. And then, there it was : no background noise, all details, transparency, dynamics. Together with the EM3 PRO I had the portable hifi auditorium I dreamed of.

I made a quick A/B comparison of foobar2000+Lynx2B vs. Hifiman 801 line out to the Stax amplifier and Omega2 Headphone. I adjusted the level so that the two sources had the same output level (remainder : no A/B comparison can be done if the levels are not adjusted). They were no significant differences between the soundcard and the Hifiman. This means that as far as the DAC is concerned, the Hifiman is a perfect source. This is great news. I wish I had more time to give more details about this A/B comparison (and to perform it more thoroughly).

Since I use it with a highly sensitive IEM, the amplifier is not an issue (I hardly go further than 1/4 of the volume and it is already very, very, very loud). In these conditions the HIFIMAN is a perfect source+amplifier combo for IEM listenings. The only remaining source of improvement in such a combo is in the IEM quality and properties.

With a full size headphone I understand that things may be very different because of the amplification part of the Hifiman. But still, the fact that the DAC is perfect (to my opinion, i.e. mostly indistinguishable from Lynx2B soundcard) will remain true.

All in all I am very satisfied (this is an understatement) with my Hifiman 801+ EM3-PRO IEM combo. My major concern is with the firmware (see the Firmware debug thread), although it is much better than what I expected based on what I read here. For instance I had no problem using an (almost) full 32 Go SD card. And I had no problem in copying my folders as they are (including the jpeg, pdf and txt files). May be the firmware has already improved since the first versions (my version is 0.09 2009-12-01).

I heard some of you guys had the intention to use the Hifiman with the JH13-PRO IEM. Well, welcome to an audiophile heaven then

And thank you Nankai for sending me the Hifiman before Christmas : this is what I call a nice Christmas gift

 

[GreenLeo]

Hi corsario,

Have you ever tried to use the lineout of the 801 to an amp and then to your IEM? I'm very interested in what you think the SQ with and without an amp to the IEM. The sensitivity of the ES3X is also very high and the The DAC/Amp/ES3X combo of the 801 is certainly not bad, but I still want the high-end amp module that Fang mentioned and the 801 can perform better.

Regards

 

[shigzeo]

what is audiophile classical music?

 

[corsario]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif what is audiophile classical music?

something like this

(sorry the list and explanations are in french, but i think you will get the idea. Caution : this is a work in progress)

put it simply : it is when the sound engineer made his job so good that you get the impression to be at the concert. Or when the piano seems to be right in your living room.
All in all an audiophile classical record is when the instruments sound natural and real.

For instance (to my opinion) Mercury Living Presence recordings from the 60's are not good enough to me (in general). Neither are the Living Stereo SACD (in general). On the other hand, some live RCO recordings, some BIS or Channel Classics recordings, Pentatone recordings, some Harmonia Mundi CDs, some Alpha CDs , Zig-Zag Territories CDs, some Glossa, Accent, DG CDs, some Calliope, 2L, RCA red seal, Alia Vox CDs, and even some Sony are really audiophile. Only the result counts.

My point is that if you have a standard for comparison (real life instruments and concert), then it is much easier to assess the quality of an hihi combo and/or sound recording quality. And also much easier to ear the flaws and imperfections of your combo and/or sound recording quality.
Since we have listen to more than 400 high quality CDs, then we know what can be best done in terms of sound recording quality (we all have different hifi systems, so the list is a kind of vote or consensus).

When I listen to these records through Lynx2B + Stax Omega2 or with my hifi system (Lynx2B + Mimetism 15.2 + Jean-Marie Reynaud EMP2), I know that the record is (almost) perfect.

I now have the same kind of feeling with these records when I listen to them through Hifiman 801 + EM3-PRO. And I'm so happy to have such an audiophile quality experience in the train when I go to work.

Of course, when I'm back home, I prefer the Stax Omega2 or listening to my hifi in the living room with the loudspeakers.

 

[corsario]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenLeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi corsario, Have you ever tried to use the lineout of the 801 to an amp and then to your IEM? I'm very interested in what you think the SQ with and without an amp to the IEM. The sensitivity of the ES3X is also very high and the The DAC/Amp/ES3X combo of the 801 is certainly not bad, but I still want the high-end amp module that Fang mentioned and the 801 can perform better. Regards

Hi GreenLeo,

I did not understood that you too were listening with an IEM. In this case I'm surprised that you state that the amp would be so important...
When you did your comparison, did you adjust the levels so that your listening level was the same in both cases ? You know that very slight different sound levels are not perceived by the ears as sound level differences but as enhanced sound quality, dynamic, presence, and so on. This is often (not always) the reason why some people prefer on amp over another, or one source over another. This is an important (and difficult point) in A/B comparisons.

Well I have no amp so I could not test the HM801 line out through an amp and then to the EM3PRO. Maybe you are right, but I doubt the usefulness of a more powerful amp to an IEM with 124 db sensitivity and 23 ohms...
However, since I did not test another amp, I can not tell more than an opinion.

Another opinion, though, is that I am very very very satisfied with the HM801 + EM3 PRO (and this is in comparison with Stax Omega 2 on one hand and Mimetism 15.2 + JMR EMP2 on the other hand, and of course in comparison with real life concerts and instruments). If I would like to do better (with the sound insulation requirement which is mandatory for me in the train), I would go to improve the headphones, not the amp (my personal feeling). I would like for instance to try the JH13 PRO.

 

[shigzeo]

I can tell you that a real amp is needed more with sensitive balanced armature earphones than with less sensitive dynamic earphones. BA drivers run up and down in impedance, driving even beefy audio outputs shrivelled with dead bass, image separation, etc., without the ability to drive a low 1 or 0 ohm load.

If the HiFiman cannot drive balanced armature drivers to flat frequency repsonses out of the headphone out, then it does need an external amp. I have not tried it yet, but hope to in a meeting soon. It didn't happen last week (drat).