HiBy RS8 flagship Darwin R2R Android DAP -- Class A -- news and impressions thread

[fullbass]

It's weird to me to listen iem from a desktop dac/amp.

 

[slumberman]

In what format? I like to challenge this. The most important thing in portable audio dap is the amp output, we simply don't have resolving enough iem to truly be able to tell apart dac impact.

That is arguable. Of course DAC impact is audible even in IEMs. Everything can be discerned. As usual, it’s just one part of the puzzle but I don’t see why IEMs wouldn’t be able to portrait DAC difference.

 

[audionewbi]

That is arguable. Of course DAC impact is audible even in IEMs. Everything can be discerned. As usual, it’s just one part of the puzzle but I don’t see why IEMs wouldn’t be able to portrait DAC difference.

I had three people, including myself, perform a blind test with the following method:

1) Use a superior DAC out-feeding an average amp;
2) Using average DAC, feeding superior amp;

This is highly non-scientific, as there is no control, but we all failed to identify which DAC was superior to another, we noticed change; however, couldn't name the DAC use.
We felt the most improvement in the second format, however, we failed to notice DAC changes.

This is all in IEM usage.

Our conclusion was, for IEM usage, get the best IEM money can get you, and get the best amplifier you can buy, how you feed it makes almost no audible difference.

There are spatial cues that become far more noticeable to observe, that we simply wouldn't notice in IEM.

 

[Loftprojection]

In what format? I like to challenge this. The most important thing in portable audio dap is the amp output, we simply don't have resolving enough iem to truly be able to tell apart dac impact.

I’m with you on this. At the price TOTL DAPs are sold now the DAC portion should be « somewhat competitve » with at least desktop DACs that are sold at half even a third of their price or the dedicated battery transportable dac/amp on the market. Myself I’m using a « transportable« amp/dac (Woo WA8) that I love but the dac section, a somewhat basic ESS chip, is not satisfying since I prefer the sound signature of NOS. So I’m ideally lusting for a battery driven « transportable » DAC with an R2R DAC that will provide a nice sound signature, something like the Shanling H7, Gryphon, iDSD…. All of these use OS DAC chips so I’m looking at the new DAPs that have adopted R2R even if it’s too much money for what I’d like to spend on it.

I think RS8 (maybe even RS6) would have such a lineout DAC performance!

 

[audionewbi]

I’m with you on this. At the price TOTL DAPs are sold now the DAC portion should be « somewhat competitve » with at least desktop DACs that are sold at half even a third of their price or the dedicated battery transportable dac/amp on the market. Myself I’m using a « transportable« amp/dac (Woo WA8) that I love but the dac section, a somewhat basic ESS chip, is not satisfying since I prefer the sound signature of NOS. So I’m ideally lusting for a battery driven « transportable » DAC with an R2R DAC that will provide a nice sound signature, something like the Shanling H7, Gryphon, iDSD…. All of these use OS DAC chips so I’m looking at the new DAPs that have adopted R2R even if it’s too much money for what I’d like to spend on it.

I think RS8 (maybe even RS6) would have such a lineout DAC performance!

The reason why Im so happy with RS8 is that the amp section is very capable, and I can tweak the sound with noticeable effects. Nowadays when I buy DAP, I pay far more attention to the AMP section, volume potentiometer. I don't buy DAP to drive headphones, some do, but I'm not one. A good DAP maker first should focus on designing a DAP for IEM, meaning low distortion, and high SNR performance which is critical for a quiet background for IEM users.
When we want to add more voltage power drive to the amp of our DAP, that is where we tend to introduce noise. It wouldn't be an issue for headphones, but for IEM, it makes a noticeable difference.

 

[fejnomit]

rs8 lineout is good
but a good desktop DAC will never be beaten

Not my experience at all. YMMV, etc.

 

[fullbass]

we all failed to identify which DAC was superior to another

because each component of the system has to match the high level of the other component.

in your case, the overall level of the system is equal to the level of the weakest component, so you couldn't hear the difference, since you obviously had one weak component -- the bottle neck.

 

[haci]

I had three people, including myself, perform a blind test with the following method:

1) Use a superior DAC out-feeding an average amp;
2) Using average DAC, feeding superior amp;

This is highly non-scientific, as there is no control, but we all failed to identify which DAC was superior to another, we noticed change; however, couldn't name the DAC use.
We felt the most improvement in the second format, however, we failed to notice DAC changes.

This is all in IEM usage.

Our conclusion was, for IEM usage, get the best IEM money can get you, and get the best amplifier you can buy, how you feed it makes almost no audible difference.

There are spatial cues that become far more noticeable to observe, that we simply wouldn't notice in IEM.

If you had read my book, you’d setup your test as: -)
good dac good amp vs bad dac good amp
good dac bad amp vs bad dac bad amp

 

[Loftprojection]

I had three people, including myself, perform a blind test with the following method:

1) Use a superior DAC out-feeding an average amp;
2) Using average DAC, feeding superior amp;

This is highly non-scientific, as there is no control, but we all failed to identify which DAC was superior to another, we noticed change; however, couldn't name the DAC use.
We felt the most improvement in the second format, however, we failed to notice DAC changes.

This is all in IEM usage.

Our conclusion was, for IEM usage, get the best IEM money can get you, and get the best amplifier you can buy, how you feed it makes almost no audible difference.

There are spatial cues that become far more noticeable to observe, that we simply wouldn't notice in IEM.

That's an interesting test and point of view but I doubt it is true, specially if the external amp used for the test and IEM are good to very good ($1000+ each). t

I don't have an R2R DAP like the RS8 to test it myself which is why I'm asking here.

I really think the R2R DAC in the RS8 lineout to a good external amp and IEM must have at least, if not nicer, a different sound signature then a DAP of similar price bracket with an ESS or AKM chip.

I agree with you about getting the best IEM and amp you can afford though!

 

[fejnomit]

Our conclusion was, for IEM usage, get the best IEM money can get you, and get the best amplifier you can buy, how you feed it makes almost no audible difference.

This doesn't make logical sense to me. It ALL starts with the source. It's the first potential bottle neck. IT should be the absolute best it can be. Then move onto amp, then IEM as you move down the audio chain. A good amp and IEM cannot clean up a bad source. Garbage in, garbage out. Also I find very different results to the test you did. I can hear DAC chips and filters quite easily. So something might be flawed in your ideology.... Just my $.02...

 

[audionewbi]

This doesn't make logical sense to me. It ALL starts with the source. It's the first potential bottle neck. IT should be the absolute best it can be. Then move onto amp, then IEM as you move down the audio chain. A good amp and IEM cannot clean up a bad source. Garbage in, garbage out. Also I find very different results to the test you did. I can hear DAC chips and filters quite easily. So something might be flawed in your ideology.... Just my $.02...

Define garbage are we talking a out poor mastering? Or current our from the dac output feeding the IV section or something else?
My experience is, in a DAP format, if amplification section makes more of a difference than dac.

 

[fullbass]

It ALL starts with the source

starts with a good transport

 

[fullbass]

if amplification section makes more of a difference than dac

They are equivalent components.

You can have a bad experience with a great amp and a garbage DAC. And vice versa. As I said above -- all components of a system should be worth each other, including the headphones/iem and interconnect/power/headphones cables

 

[MatW]

RS8 incoming. Time to read up on this DAP..

I searched this thread but didn't find an answer. Did anyone try the TPU case for the R8? The dimensions look very similar. I can't find a TPU case for the RS8, so I'm tempted to give it a try.

 

[davidmolliere]

RS8 incoming. Time to read up on this DAP..

I searched this thread but didn't find an answer. Did anyone try the TPU case for the R8? The dimensions look very similar. I can't find a TPU case for the RS8, so I'm tempted to give it a try.

Hope you'll enjoy it as much as I did!

You won't get through burn in my unit has several hundreds of hours on it