[DeusEx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by james444 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, all on your list are BA-based phones. As far as I know, the opinion about dynamic drivers besting BA in classical is not widely confirmed and I doubt there's been extensive discussion about this. Like mark2410 said, we are talking about very high level IEMs, meaning subtle differences, therefore personal preference is an important factor. IME the SE530 relies on a good source, it does not so good with my iPod classic but sounds great with my Fuze. According to my freq tests bass goes down to about 15Hz, so I don't think its missing on that end of the curve. The ressed highs are a widely confirmed truth, but I wouldn't call them dealbreakers. For a BA-phone the SE530 responds really good to EQing, so you can pump up the highs if you like.

Then what phones aren't BA-based, besides IE8?

My sources will be a Samsung P3 dap or iPhone 3GS....amp is a Fiio E5. Will possibly be purchasing an iPod with LOD later on.

I've heard mixed results on EQing on the se530, although the Samsung P3 has a good EQ set built-in, and it's a fantastic sounding player..

 

[gameboy115]

Talking about vocal only, well known roll high off does not bother me much, as the whole spectrum is sharing warmness and consistent with front presentation, high end is not so obviously off, even it is lacking of sparkle and shrill it should be

Since you are very familiar to classic instrument, you have to go to UM3X. It just stomp over SE 530 in this area. Vocal is debatable question though, since they do portray vocal in very different way if you are analytical enough. I am not having as good knowledge about instrument as you do, but I used to play guitar in some small band, Um3x does a great job to reveal airiness of guitar.

You can see that is related to basic sound signature. It defines how well um3x and se 530 depicting instrument timbre. SE 530 suffers from heavy colored problem which warmness seeps everywhere. UM3X is neutral or slight bright, easily bring out transparency or airiness for instruments. Neutrality for me is key factor for instrument

You don't have to listen to SE 530 in person, you can just think of IEM has problem of over warmness and roll off high, is there any slighte chance to do justice about violin?

 

[james444]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeusEx /img/forum/go_quote.gif Then what phones aren't BA-based, besides IE8?

All dynamics in my signature, the Denons and a lot of entry level to middle class IEMs like your CX300. Until recenty all high end IEMs where BA based, high end dynamic driver IEMs like the Senn IE7/8 or JVC/Victor FX500 are a relatively new phenomenon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeusEx /img/forum/go_quote.gif My sources will be a Samsung P3 dap or iPhone 3GS....amp is a Fiio E5. Will possibly be purchasing an iPod with LOD later on. I've heard mixed results on EQing on the se530, although the Samsung P3 has a good EQ set built-in, and it's a fantastic sounding player..

These are certainly good sources and I doubt you really need the Fiio. Mine rests in a drawer somewhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gameboy115 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Talking about vocal only, well known roll high off does not bother me much, as the whole spectrum is sharing warmness and consistent with front presentation, high end is not so obviously off, even it is lacking of sparkle and shrill it should be Since you are very familiar to classic instrument, you have to go to UM3X. It just stomp over SE 530 in this area. Vocal is debatable question though, since they do portray vocal in very different way if you are analytical enough. I am not having as good knowledge about instrument as you do, but I used to play guitar in some small band, Um3x does a great job to reveal airiness of guitar. You can see that is related to basic sound signature. It defines how well um3x and se 530 depicting instrument timbre. SE 530 suffers from heavy colored problem which warmness seeps everywhere. UM3X is neutral or slight bright, easily bring out transparency or airiness for instruments. Neutrality for me is key factor for instrument You don't have to listen to SE 530 in person, you can just think of IEM has problem of over warmness and roll off high, is there any slighte chance to do justice about violin?

Coming from the CX300, I don't think you'll find the SE530 overly warm. But while I have not personally heard the UM3X the overall consensus is it's more neutral than the SE530. Nevertheless this also means you may not find the bass as impactful as you desire.

Anyway, my reservations about BA with classical music are not based on warmness. My Audio Technica CK100 for example is certainly not a warm IEM and still I won't recommend it for classical. Though if it's mainly about violin I think the dynamics vs. BA issue is not that crucial. It's more with the bassier strings like cello or double bass where the difference becomes obvious IMO. Needless to say you hear bass with both technologies, but with the dynamics you can also feel it. IMO the deep vibrato of a cello or bass is simply lacking something with BA phones. But, I have to repeat myself, perception is highly personal, YMMV and you need to audition to find your own preference. Or find a store with generous return policy, get both a dynamic and a BA phone and keep the one you like.

 

[DeusEx]

I think the IE8s are too large for me, and I don't like the "wood" on the FX500s, so I think I'll probably be going with the Westone or Shure..although dynamic drivers do look interesting...feeling the vibrato would be very nice...although violin does take precedence for me compared to bass/cello.

So it's probably Shure SE530 vs Phonak PFE vs Westone UM3X for me....any comments?
I thought the UM3X had even more bass impact then SE530..

Also, I've also read that um3x is a warm, "velvety" sounding phone, yet it has been described as more neutral than the se530. So many seemingly conflicting views...

The Westone braided cable is pretty cool though...although the cheapest I've seen a UM3X go on here was like $290...SE530s can be found for closer to $200..

Also, can you put custom sleeves on the se530 or um3x?

 

[gameboy115]

Quote:

Originally Posted by james444 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Coming from the CX300, I don't think you'll find the SE530 overly warm. But while I have not personally heard the UM3X the overall consensus is it's more neutral than the SE530. Nevertheless this also means you may not find the bass as impactful as you desire. Anyway, my reservations about BA with classical music are not based on warmness. My Audio Technica CK100 for example is certainly not a warm IEM and still I won't recommend it for classical. Though if it's mainly about violin I think the dynamics vs. BA issue is not that crucial. It's more with the bassier strings like cello or double bass where the difference becomes obvious IMO. Needless to say you hear bass with both technologies, but with the dynamics you can also feel it. IMO the deep vibrato of a cello or bass is simply lacking something with BA phones. But, I have to repeat myself, perception is highly personal, YMMV and you need to audition to find your own preference. Or find a store with generous return policy, get both a dynamic and a BA phone and keep the one you like.

I got IE8 before I changed it to UM3x,after that, I got SE 530. From my fading memory, IE8 did better job than SE 530 in term of instruments.

You are correct, CK100 is not warm IEM, it is exactly focusing on middle high and high earphone from I I read. The low end would not sink lower than IE8 and SE 530, while giving more shrill in high end than IE8 and SE 530. It is an excellent IEM, may be best in all flagship IEM, providing pleasure to female vocal lover, as it is good at transparency and crystal clarity. But I don't think it is neutral...........

I don't know where you get neutrality is not important for classic, to me, SE 530 is such a disappointment to instruments performance, not to mention its over warmness problem, also it is suffering from not enough clarity than um3x.

If my memory was correct, I have been trilled when I first heard how um3x presented drum, impact is realistic, even I was not satisfied with its relatively small soundstage. I am not going to rave UM3X being all mighty IEM, yea, if you prefer better bass or soundstage or deep low end, I would genuinely recommend you go for IE8, not UM3x, in fact, these two area IE8 seems to me more superior among all 3 top tier IEM I owned. As to instruments alone, UM3x is clear winner to me

SE 530 already lost its edge as more new kids in town, for me, it does not excel in either one area, IE 8 is good for bass and soundstage, UM3X has its neutrality and very good instrument performance.

I noticed op said UM3x was warm IEM. As a matter of fact, UM3X is least warm earphone among three. If something I could improve with UM3x, I need better soundstage and fuller/ warm sound.

Just please not go for SE 530 if you are mainly focusing on better instrument, you better go for PFE if your budget is limited

Sry, music 4321, I dug up old post from you which I thought it is good for op
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f103/w...ml#post5691283

Other post about insturment
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f103/w...ml#post5703529
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f103/w...ml#post5743156
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f103/w...ml#post5754425

 

[DeusEx]

ummm....damn, this makes me look more closely at the Westone UM3X...even though my budget is ~$200....which the se530s fit in..the se530s can't be THAT worse than the um3x, right? I mean, it does cost the same new...

 

[james444]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gameboy115 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't know where you get neutrality is not important for classic, to me, SE 530 is such a disappointment to instruments performance, not to mention its over warmness problem, also it is suffering from not enough clarity than um3x.

Sorry, but I did not mean that. What I meant was that the OP comes from the CX300, a warm sounding phone, and has been mentioning slightly bloated bass and horrible microphonics, but not them being too warm for his taste. Chances are, he would not mind the warmness of the SE530. mark2410 has the IE8, that you would recommend (besides the UM3X), yet he recommends the SE530 and thinks they are just wonderful.

I also tried to say that IMO there's something completely lacking with the bass of BA-phones, meaning the sensation of air movement in my ear. This does not mean lack of bass - the SE530 and X10 have plenty. I just can't feel it with BA and that makes the bass presentation of dynamics more realistic to me.

Obviously the latter issue is important for me and negligible for you. On the other hand I don't mind a warmer sound with classical music wheras for you it's a dealbreaker. People's perceptions and preferences are different, that's the crux for the OP who expects conclusive information.

 

[gameboy115]

Just for instrument, the answer is yes for me. For vocal, it is debatable question. I don't mind going um3x to se 530 from time to time, in fact, some songs with se 530 is really having more shine than um3x. The unique way to color the vocal is one of factors what making se 530 on top of line for last few years.

Since your requirement is listed as listening instruments most of time, I would say you should avoid SE 530, if you are starting as vocal lover, like warm,full, lush sound, I would recommedn you better go for SE 530 or IE8.

It is the way this IEM market works, each phone has been capturing specific customers, as most top of line IEM has its specialties, doing some stunning job in one area, but fairly average in others.......You have to throw big bucks to go for custom, if you want jack of all trade IEM.

Have you give a little thought about TF10pro, heard good word about it, not having a chance to try yet.....

 

[gameboy115]

Quote:

Originally Posted by james444 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry, but I did not mean that. What I meant was that the OP comes from the CX300, a warm sounding phone, and has been mentioning slightly bloated bass and horrible microphonics, but not them being too warm for his taste. Chances are, he would not mind the warmness of the SE530. mark2410 has the IE8, that you would recommend (besides the UM3X), yet he recommends the SE530 and thinks they are just wonderful. I also tried to say that IMO there's something completely lacking with the bass of BA-phones, meaning the sensation of air movement in my ear. This does not mean lack of bass - the SE530 and X10 have plenty. I just can't feel it with BA and that makes the bass presentation of dynamics more realistic to me. Obviously the latter issue is important for me and negligible for you. On the other hand I don't mind a warmer sound with classical music wheras for you it's a dealbreaker. People's perceptions and preferences are different, that's the crux for the OP who expects conclusive information.

UM3x is not a bass lite IEM, bass is recording dependent, you can feel thumpy bass if it is heavy bass track, these are mentioned in um3x appreciation thread from different users. Surely SE 530 is slight better in quantity,I can for sure tell you that se 530 bass for me is a little muddy and bloated, I like IE8 more. I do agree bass in dynamic more lively, I thought I have mentioned if op like bass more, he should go for IE8, just avoid SE 530 is fine

I knew Mark, and he rated SE 530 in a high rank of all iem he got, and also a big fans of shure sound signature,I respect his selection. But I also saw a bunch of SE 530 owners being a happy owners for um3x in appreciation thread

Lets not talking about neutrality, since we may have different preference. I will just say given all 3 top tier iem I heard, UM3x is best for instrument.
I don't think IE8 is doing a bad job, so op could consider to grab second hand IE8 if your budget it tight, since I think its soundstage should be a bliss to hear live live recording

 

[DeusEx]

So wth should I do at the moment? I don't want to spend more than $200, though. The UM3X is probably unaccessible then? Budget's $200.

 

[gameboy115]

Just go for SE 530 at Fs forum, sell it when you have enough money to upgrade um3x, doesn't hurt too much if you stick with second hand.

By the time you have enough money, you may change you mind and want to try dynamic IEM or go for any new product which better than um3x

 

[r@mside]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeusEx /img/forum/go_quote.gif So wth should I do at the moment? I don't want to spend more than $200, though. The UM3X is probably unaccessible then? Budget's $200.

Try not to spend more than you want to.

 

[DeusEx]

lol - got it, I need to upgrade my custom computer build too!

So, for ~$200, the SE530 is probably a better deal than UM3X (cheapest is $300), right?
Just want to make sure they (the se530s) won't sound horrible with instrumental/orchestral music....the um3x might sound better, but the Shures are decent enough, right?

 

[gameboy115]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeusEx /img/forum/go_quote.gif lol - got it, I need to upgrade my custom computer build too! So, for ~$200, the SE530 is probably a better deal than UM3X (cheapest is $300), right? Just want to make sure they (the se530s) won't sound horrible with instrumental/orchestral music....the um3x might sound better, but the Shures are decent enough, right?

If your budget is tight, so your decision is made, SE 530 is your one and only one choice, even some one tell you W3/ CK100/ TF10pro sounds best, your hands is still tied.

Why bother asking? Just go for it. I can assure you there is no disappointment since this is first high end IEM. Just enjoy it

 

[duanepo]

W3! (a bit more bassy) or UM3X! (very neutral IEMs if clarity is what you really want)