[Shiymmas]

Hello good people of Head-Fi!
 
TLR;  getting this out of the way, I'm looking to spend ~$400USD (give or take) on a new headphone setup.  I listen to (almost) all genres of music, which will be their primary function, as well as game and watch movies with them, but am far more concerned with their performance for music.  Source will be my PC, which has a Soundblaster X-Fi Xtrememusic, and I also have an old Pioneer SX 312R that I can run a pair of headphones through (although it does hiss on my current headphones).  My current headphones are the AKG K240 Studio which I have loved dearly and have always been extremely comfortable, and great sounding for their price.  Main complaint with them is sibilance when I turn up the volume and lack of bass (though I don't want a ton of bass).  I'd probably prefer an open headphone (isolation is a non-issue), but am open to suggestions towards closed/semi-closed models as well.  Also, I will be wearing these for quite a few hours on a daily basis, so they need to be comfortable.
 
 
That aside, I've been reading here quite a good bit (hours a day for a couple weeks), trying to learn as much as possible before even attempting to make a buying decision.  While I was fairly sure in my thoughts before coming here, I've wound up cross-eyed, half dumb, and completely incapable of making a decision, all from browsing and reading in these boards.  Fantastic source of over information and awesome community, though.

 
As I mentioned above, I do have a receiver that I can run my headphones through.  After reading about people using theirs as amps, I gave it a try and was pleasantly surprised at the improvement to my current headphones (though not a massive difference).  The trouble is that it hisses when nothing's playing with my current phones.  After a while of listening to music, it's little bother, but on a regular basis I imagine it would/will get quite annoying (I only read about using receivers as an amp a day or two ago).  I don't know if the trouble is my current headphones' impedance, or what, but the hissing remains regardless of which input is selected, or whether or not it's hooked up to a source.  Point being that I'd be open to suggestions for an amp/headphone suggestion within my price range.  Of course, if my sound card alone, or combined with my receiver will be sufficient for a higher Ohm headphone, then that definitely opens up even more options, but just yet I'm not positive how my setup will fare with higher impedance models (and is still a part of my confusion).  That in mind, if it comes to it I may very well try hotrodding my X-Fi since I could do so cheaply.  Also, it's worth noting that I might have use for a portable amp given that I will likely use these with my iPhone a bit as well, but I'm not too concerned about that given that it powers my K240s just fine and they aren't going anywhere.
 
I've always loved my AKGs.  In fact, my first pair I purchased somewhere between 2001-2002.  Since then, I've bought a second pair and, of course, replaced their cables a few times.  I really enjoyed them from day 1, given my previous headphones were all junk.  The k240 was comfortable, and sounded great right out of the box, so I never really looked any further than that.  At this point, however, my current pair's cable is all but trashed, and the pads' pleather is practically falling apart, so simply replacing the cable and pads seems a bit of a waste at this point - hence my current search.
 
That in mind, I've kinda narrowed things down (plenty open to suggestions still!) to the AKG K702s, Beyerdynamic DT880 (ugh, which ohm?!), Denon AH-D2000, and ATH AD900.  I picked these while considering (in order of importance):
 

1. that I might need to buy an amp to go with them (tried leaving $100-150 for an amp)
2. sound quality (I can only go by reviews
   
   )
3. how comfortable they are (this goes x2)
4. not overly heavy in bass, and no sibilance trouble (I don't crank up the volume too often, but when I do - damn shrilly S sounds)
5. open - I like soundstage I suppose, but willing to bend there as sometimes semi-closed or closed might be nice (since reading about soundstage, I occasionally cup my hands over my phones and the result definitely isn't terrible)
6. design - yeah, kind of a dumb thing, but some of the phones I've read about just look plain stupid, or poorly made (whether or not that's the case)

 
I really wanted to make up my own mind, but unfortunately, my experience with headphones is limited to running through cheap-o's many years ago, until I got my AKGs.  Living where I do, the nearest meets are too far away to really be feasible, and there are extremely limited options on actually auditioning headphones.  I mean; there's only so much you can learn without actually hearing this stuff, so I will be having to buy blind (or deaf?).
 
The bottom line is: I'm trying to keep this at a budget of about $400.  I'm a little flexible on that, and am definitely willing to hear suggestions that go beyond that given the potential of the classifieds here and elsewhere, as well as eBay and online stores holding sales (or coupon codes even).  I mean, new is nice and all, but getting as good as I can within my price range is even better.
 
TIA for any help/suggestions.  Lord knows; at this point, I need help.
 
PS - Is there any way to not default to the last post on every thread I open?  It seems to be related to read/unread, but man it gets old going through hundreds of threads and being shot to the bottom, only to scroll back up every single time.

 

[kingtz]

You should definitely look into the Sennheiser HD650. They're circumaural and open. They also require a dedicated headphone amp. They might be a little out of your current budget, but definitely worth looking into if you don't mind used.
 
 
PS. Such detailed posts are definitely very refreshing to see after the recent influx of one or two line "Wat I r buy for $xxx??" posts that have been on the front page.

 

[Shiymmas]

Quote:

You should definitely look into the Sennheiser HD650. They're circumaural and open. They also require a dedicated headphone amp. They might be a little out of your current budget, but definitely worth looking into if you don't mind used.
 
 
PS. Such detailed posts are definitely very refreshing to see after the recent influx of one or two line "Wat I r buy for $xxx??" posts that have been on the front page.

Honestly, I'd looked at the HD650, but in my looking around I haven't been able to find a price that I (assume) would leave me capable of affording a decent amp to run them.  I mean, the whole amp/DAC thing is my biggest hitch at the moment, given that I don't know what price point for one/both will be capable of powering some of these cans (namely the DT880 600ohm and, though I'd almost written them out because of price, HD650).  I'd almost gone ahead and just bit the bullet going for the DT880 600ohm and a ~$150 amp I'd found (can't remember exactly which - this stuff's a blur the past few days) but I hesitated and... here I am heh.
 
And yeah, I've gone through as many of the "help me decide" type posts as I could, but none of them really covered my specific needs or setup, so making a post was definitely my last resort.

 

[kingtz]

For whatever reason, the HD650 just shot up in price over the last 2 weeks, and now sells for $450-$500. Just earlier this month, I managed to snag a brand new one for $350. So maybe if you're patient (or lucky), the price will drop back down sometime soon. The B-stock Asgards (solid state amplifier) were selling for $199.

 

[hentai]

Try a used hd600 and the extra $$ for a headphone amp. I

 

[Shiymmas]

^
 
Could still use some suggestions.  TBH I've been the most interested in Beyerdynamic, specifically the 880's, but I'm still hung on what to do in terms of an amp with my current setup and whether or not the 880's will be a satisfying upgrade.

 

[joelpearce]

A better entry point to the world of Beyerdynamic might be the DT250.
 
It is closed, but with the velour pads it comes with it probably won't FEEL closed, if that makes sense.  All of the 880s are relatively tricky to drive, and there's no guarantee that your receiver will play along nicely with them.
 
The DT250, even the 250 ohm one, will drive well from your receiver.  They are noted as being a bit darker than some of the other Beyers, so you'll be protected from the sharpness that also often accompanies the Beyer sound.  The pro sets have a decent soundstage for closed cans.
 
If you do decide to go with the 880, be prepared to commit if they are anything like the 990.  Get the 880/600 right from the beginning, and treat them to a tube amp.  Get that setup going properly, and you'll never look back.  Don't go all the way right away, and you'll get a taste for it, and won't stop until you end up with the 600s and a tube amp anyway.  This comes from experience.

 

[Shiymmas]

 
Quote:

If you do decide to go with the 880, be prepared to commit if they are anything like the 990.  Get the 880/600 right from the beginning, and treat them to a tube amp.  Get that setup going properly, and you'll never look back.  Don't go all the way right away, and you'll get a taste for it, and won't stop until you end up with the 600s and a tube amp anyway.  This comes from experience.

Thanks for the reply...
 
Were I to go for the 880, I was definitely going to get the 600ohm version right from the start.  As I can't express enough, the amplifier is my biggest issue.  I mean, on the price range I'm looking at I can currently get the DT880/600 for about ~$260, leaving me somewhere in the ~$140 range, but I'm willing to extend a bit if the quality warrants the cost.  If I go with the 880/600, what other amp options would I have, specifically that would make these sound good?  I just know too little at this point - in spite of all my research - to make an educated decision, which is why I'm here

.
 
I guess my biggest concern is spending so much to end up with something that I'm not fully satisfied with.  It's pretty tough to even have an idea when you can't just listen to these things first-hand.

 

[Shiymmas]

 
Quote:

If you do decide to go with the 880, be prepared to commit if they are anything like the 990.  Get the 880/600 right from the beginning, and treat them to a tube amp.  Get that setup going properly, and you'll never look back.  Don't go all the way right away, and you'll get a taste for it, and won't stop until you end up with the 600s and a tube amp anyway.  This comes from experience.

Thanks for the reply...
 
Were I to go for the 880, I was definitely going to get the 600ohm version right from the start.  As I can't express enough, the amplifier is my biggest issue.  I mean, on the price range I'm looking at I can currently get the DT880/600 for about ~$260, leaving me somewhere in the ~$140 range, but I'm willing to extend a bit if the quality warrants the cost.  If I go with the 880/600, what other amp options would I have, specifically?  I just know too little at this point - in spite of all my research - to make an educated decision, which is why I'm here

.

 

[Vergex2]

Have you ever considered using midrange portables instead of a fullsized headphone? In your budget range, I can think of two supra-aural (on ear) headphones - the Audio Technica ES10 and the Beyerdynamic T50p. You can also grab almost any universal IEM of your choice, or a low end custom IEM (such as JH5). Though you generally sacrifice a bit of comfort and soundstage for a portable, you can reach a large amount of their potential out of the weakest source and amp. If you don't have at least $800, I'd have to advise against a full blown setup - even a cheap amp + DAC will run you a good $200/300 each, plus a headphone and you're easily past $1000 already. Under that price point, it is very hard to recommend a full headphone setup (that is barebone as well, just a headphone + amp + DAC, no fancy cables or other components).

A portable will also sound great out your iPhone, and scale good to a hotrod mod or a cheap amp+DAC unit, such as the iBasso Mamba (which can be an amp+DAC when used in USB, or a just portable amp if you're willing to get a 9V battery).

Fullsized headphones, in my opinion, don't start sounding better than a solid portable until you've invested a ton of money into components upgrades (which you can also use for portables when at home). At that price point, it becomes harder and harder to justify headphones over speakers.
 
Do consider portables if you use them for 5 hours or less a day. I use my ES10s for 70+ hours a week, and while that pushes it - I do have very sensitive ears (which are shaped in a very strange way, as well). I can't say you'll be able to truly appreciate a fullsized without investing a lot, and I mean substantially more money.

 

[RadiatedAnt]

a shame, someone just sold a cable-less used hd650s for 150usd shipped in the forsale forum (broken cable) I would have snatched them asap but I couldnt decide on the phones because of my taste in music so I bought the IE8s.

 

[NapalmK]

Quote:

a shame, someone just sold a cable-less used hd650s for 150usd shipped in the forsale forum (broken cable) I would have snatched them asap but I couldnt decide on the phones because of my taste in music so I bought the IE8s.

Glad I didn't see that. Just saved $175. Great deal though.

 

[Shiymmas]

 
Quote:

If you do decide to go with the 880, be prepared to commit if they are anything like the 990.  Get the 880/600 right from the beginning, and treat them to a tube amp.  Get that setup going properly, and you'll never look back.  Don't go all the way right away, and you'll get a taste for it, and won't stop until you end up with the 600s and a tube amp anyway.  This comes from experience.

Thanks for the reply...
 
Were I to go for the 880, I was definitely going to get the 600ohm version right from the start.  As I can't express enough, the amplifier is my biggest issue.  I mean, on the price range I'm looking at I can currently get the DT880/600 for about ~$260, leaving me somewhere in the ~$140 range, but I'm willing to extend a bit if the quality warrants the cost.  If I go with the 880/600, what other amp options would I have, specifically?  I just know too little at this point - in spite of all my research - to make an educated decision, which is why I'm here

.
 
@Vergex: I'll very likely wear these for more than 5+ hours/day, and honestly I haven't even considered supra-aural because, while I've only ever tried cheaper ones, I've never liked the feel of them on my head.  IEM's were actually what lead me here though, as I was on a few iPhone sites reading reviews on them and came across these forums while looking for more info.  That said, after a lot of consideration, I decided against going that route.
 
In all, my setup doesn't have to be a holycrapwtfbbq kind of thing - pleasing to the most discerning audiophile.  I'm just looking for what will be a large step forward from what I've had for all these years, and has worked for me pretty well so far.  Basically, I want a solid upgrade for my money, and if that means going a cheaper route, so be it!  I don't mind that at all, but I do know that a full-sized can for my use is most likely going to be my best option, and as I said in my OP, the potential of the used market out there definitely opens plenty of options, if only I knew specifically what to aim for.

 

[Vergex2]

Quote:

 

Thanks for the reply...
 
Were I to go for the 880, I was definitely going to get the 600ohm version right from the start.  As I can't express enough, the amplifier is my biggest issue.  I mean, on the price range I'm looking at I can currently get the DT880/600 for about ~$260, leaving me somewhere in the ~$140 range, but I'm willing to extend a bit if the quality warrants the cost.  If I go with the 880/600, what other amp options would I have, specifically?  I just know too little at this point - in spite of all my research - to make an educated decision, which is why I'm here

.
 
@Vergex: I'll very likely wear these for more than 5+ hours/day, and honestly I haven't even considered supra-aural because, while I've only ever tried cheaper ones, I've never liked the feel of them on my head.  IEM's were actually what lead me here though, as I was on a few iPhone sites reading reviews on them and came across these forums while looking for more info.  That said, after a lot of consideration, I decided against going that route.
 
In all, my setup doesn't have to be a holycrapwtfbbq kind of thing - pleasing to the most discerning audiophile.  I'm just looking for what will be a large step forward from what I've had for all these years, and has worked for me pretty well so far.  Basically, I want a solid upgrade for my money, and if that means going a cheaper route, so be it!  I don't mind that at all, but I do know that a full-sized can for my use is most likely going to be my best option, and as I said in my OP, the potential of the used market out there definitely opens plenty of options, if only I knew specifically what to aim for.

Bah, I know exactly what you mean. There are few if any circumaural portables between $100 - $1000. It is ridiculous. I can't use universal IEMs well thanks to fit issues due to my ear canals being different, and I can't use customs due to a sensitive concha on my left ear. I have sensitive ears and supra aurals really push it. I'd use speakers if I can, but it is really cool that my walls are made of paper..

 

[Shiymmas]

 
Quote:

Bah, I know exactly what you mean. There are few if any circumaural portables between $100 - $1000. It is ridiculous. I can't use universal IEMs well thanks to fit issues due to my ear canals being different, and I can't use customs due to a sensitive concha on my left ear. I have sensitive ears and supra aurals really push it. I'd use speakers if I can, but it is really cool that my walls are made of paper..

Lol... I first got into headphones years ago because I would disturb my family with speakers.  Nowadays, I'm so accustomed to them that I really have almost no interest in speakers.  The immersion factor is really what does it for me with the circumaural, especially when gaming.  Maybe if I had some perfectly built room with amazing acoustics then I'd be happy with speakers, but I don't think that's gonna happen anytime soon heh.