[mwb]

Hello, My name is Michael and I am new to this forum. Prior to posting, I spent a few days reviewing this site’s archives to glean what information I could about high-end headphone systems. I recently had a baby and am moving to and renovating an older home and am considering moving from my 20 year stereo habit to headphones for my primary or “serious” listening.

Primarily I am concerned that I can ever be satisfied with a headphone system – in part because, living as I do in a small town, I have never had the opportunity to listen to a high-end headphone system. I have had many serious stereo components in the past (giving up my JMLabs Utopias is going to be downright emotional) but what I will be keeping for the headphone system will be the following:

Accuphase DT90 and DC91 transport and D/A converter – this combo is fully balanced and I have either balanced (XLR) Nordost Quatro Fil or single ended (RCA) Audio Tekne Arc 500 cables to run to a headphone amp.

I have both Electraglide FatBoys and Audio Tekne power cords to power the Accuphase as well as the headphone amp and an Equi=Tech power conditioner plugged into an Electraglide Gold wall socket……(Whew!………..I hope you are still with me)

I have a somewhat extensive CD collection and listen broadly, however I listen to more ummmm…popular/rock music than anything else.

From what I can see it would appear that the choices out there seem to boil down to
1) The headroom BlockHead with both Sennheiser 600 series AND Grado SR-1 ( the different headphones for different types of music I suppose because it does not seem to me that not only are there 2 camps but NOBODY seem to be able to make up their minds as to which they actually prefer ).

OR

2) The Sennheiser Orpheus – and I can get a really good deal on one since I have purchased so
Much equipment in the past from a certain dealer. This item seems to be something of the “Holy Grail” it is held with so much reverence – The odd thing is that what very little info I have been able to get from anyone who actually owned one of these things leads me to believe that it does NOT really set a whole new standard for this kind of playback – And I, perhaps naively, think it probably should for the price.

Actually, I suppose I have seen a third option that of J. Scull the Cary 300 SEI but the balance of this groups’ opinion seem to be that the Grado does not sound good with tubes….

PLEASE PLEASE HELP……Can I really be satisfied with Headphones for primary listening? What are the best options? And Is the Orpheus REALLY REALLY that much better than anything else out there geesh….I’d hate to drop that kind of money and end up dissatisfied.

Thanks much for what help and direction you can give and Please let me know in your comments if you have actually had direct experience with the equipment over which you are opining. It would appear to this newbie that almost nobody actually buys the orpheus or the BlockHead despite the fact that so much reverence is afforded them _ If they are really great then why not? Is it because for those prices you can get a more satisfying speaker based system? If so I might as well give up!!!! Again Thanks.

Michael

 

[pigmode]

Quote:

Originally posted by mwb PLEASE PLEASE HELP……Can I really be satisfied with Headphones for primary listening? What are the best options? Michael

No! Absolutely not, given your audio background. Well, who knows, you may become a part of that tiny group that prefers HPs over speakers but I find the odds against it pretty great.

As wonderful as HPs are, they just have too much of an un-natural sound, imo. In terms of imaging and soundstage, there is an element of left/right and a little bit of depth, but the sound is still all stuffed into your head. I do consider HPs an essential part of a sound system, however.

That said, if there is a reason you can't have speakers anymore, then you came to the right place for advice.

 

[TerriblySorry]

A lot of people say that the differences between the Sennheiser Orpheus and the Stax Omega II come down to a matter of personal preference, and that the main reason why the Orpheus costs as much as it does is because Sennheiser are trying to recover their development costs (or so I heard). I've never heard the Orpheus myself, but I do own the Omega II.

I've never liked speakers. I much prefer to have my music playing inside my head rather than outside. This goes for live music to, but of course it's not possible to have the real thing anywhere but outside. I'm thouroughly satisified with headphones for all my listening.

Have a listen to both Orpheus and Omega II, and if possible use a power regenerator as I know this improoves things a lot with my Stax. You might want to consider a top-notch dynamic headphone system, and if so perhaps you can get some recommendations from some of the other head-fiers here.

 

[Tomcat]

Hello Michael!

Have you seen this thread about a Sterophile review of the Stax Omega II? Jonathan Scull, the reviewer, liked the Stax tube amp more than the solid state one, I recall. And, if I remember correctly, he found his Cary 300 SEI/Sennheiser HD600 combination to be more musical and involving.

If you stick with dynamic headphones, there are other options to spend high end money. How about a Holmes Powell DCT-2 amp with a Sony MDR-R10 headphone? Or an Audio Technica ATH-W2002 headphone (if you can find one)? I haven't heard them, though.

But I would choose my Earmax Pro/ATH-W100 combination over the Stax Omega II/tube amp combo any time. No contest. And I have heard the OmegaII combo. Yes, there is some serious musical pleasure to be found in headphone listening. But in the end, you will have to listen for yourself. It might work for you. Just try it.

 

[mwb]

Thank you Pigmode, TerriblySorry and Tomcat for your quick and thoughtful replys.

TO be honest, I have never heard of some of the equipment that you mention - and even worse, I don't really have any equipment available to me to audition (I know I can ship stuff back but I am just uncomfortable taking advantage for an audition and not really really considering the purchase).

I am troubled to have you echo what my long time equipment mentor Steve Davis told me : " You'll never be satisfied".

Still, I am still intrigued with trying to make it work (what with a new baby and I just couldn't really place a great speaker based system correctly in the room available.

Anyway, I just can't audition all this stuff and am hoping to distill the experience of the members here if possible. Thus I am trying to at least narrow things to the very best couple of choices. Too, for the $10,000+ the Orpheus would cost I could get a couple of amps ( if they are not too big ) and a couple of Phones although this approach seems awfully cumbersome and tedious.

Let me hear from everyone and again thanks!

 

[Audio-Me]

mwb - I know how you're feeling. I love good speakers.

Although entry level high-end makes me happy, I can't afford the pricey stuff, nor want to spend that much money for such little gain, but I think I can relate.

Given what you're used to, you will probably hate using headphones for the first week or two or five.

Having said that, give your nearest dealers a call and explain your situation (dipping feet into high-end headphone world, and need evaluation periods). For example, give Tyll of HeadRoom a quick email and ask for a monoblock for demo use by using your credit card as a deposit, and if that happens to be the one you like most of the bunch, have him charge it to the C.C.

Sennheiser HD600 is my first recommendation for anyone interested in high-end headphones. As for an amp, you have many to choose from. I prefer tubes.

One setup that I can comment on is the Cary CAD-300-SEI/Sennheiser HD600 combo. I was in Boston a few years ago (couple months after I had bought myself a HD600), and I got a chance to try the setup at Goodwins Audio for an hour played through NAD CD Player and Spectral transport. They had the Orpheus too, but wasn't set up. I tried the Stax Classic and Signature systems which I didn't like. Anyway, the sound was magnificient! It was smooth with a believable soundstage.

For pleasure listening, nothing beats speakers in my opinion. But I miss out on a lot of detail when using speakers because there's always one part of a song that gets (draws)my attention tuned in so much that I let the other aspects bypass my hearing. The Sennheiser HD600 however allows me to hear absolutely everything while still being able to believe in the sound I'm hearing(very realistic/the most natural tonally balanced headphones). They reproduce all the frequencies seamlessly and has a unique signature(slightly laid back in the midrange but has spark in the upper frequencies, and tight rolling bass that thumps the insides of your ears) to the sound that beats any other headphone that I've tried. It is no doubt my favorite set of cans, and I absolutely love them.

Speaker usage is not practical at my home, I find myself using headphones 90% of the time. So all my headphone gear have been very worthwhile, I hope you'll enjoy this opportunity as much if not more than I have.

I don't know if you're going to be satisfied for primary listening, but it's been a good alternative for me... Good Luck.

 

[markl]

Hi,
Much like you, I was put in a new situation that required a move from my very nice speaker-based system to a strictly headphone-based system. I started my journey through Head-Fi land to arrive at a system that amply compensates me for my inability to listen to my PSB Stratus Goldi's, but it took a long time to get here.

When you look at headphones, don't forget the Sony R10: (see my extensive review):

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...&threadid=5008

And for an amp, I'd suggest a Berning MicrZOTL or a Melos SHA Gold:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...&threadid=6202

And finally, this thread summarizes all the different headphone gear I've owned to get to this point:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...&threadid=6529

No guarantee that your ears are the same as mine, but I think I pursued headphones from a similar angle. Hope this helps.

markl

 

[mwb]

Thanks Audio&Me and Markl for your input.

As it turns out I too have bought tubes from Kevin Deal at Upscale, although it was a few years back - some NOS Telefunkens for a CAT SIG preamp I had.

I thought that, with the resolving power of at ear transducers, tubes might be ideal. People have posted that the Grado SR1s doen't work well with tubes however and that tubed equipment really works best with electrostats. I guess this is why the whole thing is so puzzling.

So far it seems that, all the hype not withstanding, people seem to lust for the Orpheus or the BlockHead, but really prefer other systems in the long run.

Perhaps it is bang for the buck!

Anyway, I don't want to sound pathetic but I know dozens of people with stereo systems far exceeding the $10K mark but nobody who has ever heard either of the above. I am guessing that $10K buys a more satisfying speaker based system than even these Headphone based ones.

Or maybe there is no need to drop the money on equipment that simply, as T.J. Norton said in his review of the Orpheus: " Does not redefine Class A in all respects."

Don't mean to sound pedantic but I have been reading alot these past few days.

Your thoughts?

 

[mwb]

BTW I heard that Goldmund has a new 5 watt Headphone Amp and I see Mark Levinson at Red Rose has one coming out as well.

Markl...I spoke years ago with David Berning (I think he designed the tube amp you recommend) because he was one of the first developers of Tubed D/A converters....a really nice man who like so many other designers was working out of his home. I ended up with Conrad Johnston's Premier 9, another tubed D/A and loved it until the much higher priced and much higher tech Accuphase came my way.

I think I can rule Staxx stuff out....too analytical for my tastes from what I heard 5-6 years back. I found all the Mark Levinson (now owned by Proceed) stuff, even to the current state of the art stuff, to be beautifully thought out and constructed; fantastic ergonomics, looks and resale; great pace, control and clarity...but too dry for my taste...it didn't move me/

 

[markl]

Yes indeed, it's the same fellow. He makes a great amp, and I'm selling mine--spam *cough* spam--(http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...7421#post77421).

Based on the kinds of names you are dropping, here's the landscape for you in terms of headphone amps most here would kill for:

1. Ear HP4 ($4K?)
2. Cary CAD3000SEI-($4k)
3. Mesa Tigris (price?)

Sadly headphones are an audio backwater and there are very few examples of truly hi-end gear. Your choices are:

1. Stax Omega
2. Brand new not yet released Stax closed phone that is even more expensive
than Omega
3. Sony R10
4. Senn Orpheus.

There is a cluster of fine upper mid-fi phones ($350-$650) that most people have around here:
1. Etymotic ER4S
2. Sony CD3000
3. Senn HD600
4. Grado RS-1
5. AKG K1000

markl

 

[Audio-Me]

Tubes are wonderful. =)

5 watt headphone amp? That's insane, lol. Do cans even use that much power?

mwb - you're welcome, but did it help clear things up at all??

Personally, I'd recommend you go to www.headphone.com and order Sennheiser HD600, Clou red Jaspis cable, Antique Sound Lab MG Head OTL, and HeadRoom Max.

I'm sure Tyll won't mind if you end up returning one of the amps. Heck chances are, you'll keep both and Tyll will have a big grin on his face.

You might want to give the McCormack Micro Headphone Drive a try too (they supposedly sound awesome with the Grado RS-1s, I've only heard through it with Sennheiser HD580).

I don't much care for the Proceed amps either.

 

[MirandaX]

mwb, since you listen to a lot of rock, you should audition the Grado RS-1 (or even the SR-325) along with the Senn 600. Both of these can be easily resold (or returned to Headroom) if you decide not to keep them. They're both incredible cans, and worth comparing for yourself.

If you go the tube route and don't manage to get an amp that works well with the Grados (MicroZOTL, Melos SHA-1/SHA-Gold), try running the Grados off the headphone output on your preamp. This is virtually heresy here at Head-fi

, but the Senns need a dedicated amp so much more than the Grados; you can appreciate the differences in their sound even if you run the Grados this way.

 

[RickG]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl 2. Brand new not yet released Stax closed phone that is even more expensive than Omega

The Stax 4070 is a new closed monitor headphone to be marketed to the recording industry. They are manufactured and shipped only after special order. They are not more expensive than the Omega II ($1250 without amp).

More info:

http://www.stax.co.jp/ENG/4070E.html

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl There is a cluster of fine upper mid-fi phones ($350-$650) that most people have around here: 1. Etymotic ER4S 2. Sony CD3000 3. Senn HD600 4. Grado RS-1 5. AKG K1000

Markl, I don't think I'm the only one here who thinks that your classification of these cas as "upper mid-fi" is inaccurate

Each of those headphones is viewed by a good many people as among the best, if not THE best, on the market. I've heard people say that they prefer one of those to the Stax or even the Orpheus (and, yes, the R10

)!

While I definitely agree that some people think the Stax/Orpheus/R10 are the "holy grail" of headphones, it's also clear that the Ety/Sony/Senn/Grado/AKG models are really "high end" cans. Calling them "upper mid-fi" is like calling a Krell transport/DAC "upper mid fi" just because there are a few models out there that beat it

 

[morphsci]

I own the Alessandro MS Pro's which are a modified Grado RS-1 and the Alessandro MS-II (modified Grado 325). I listen to both of them through a McCormack Integrated Drive ( The headphone drive with added speaker terminals). A great synergy especially for Rock, Blues and Jazz, IMHO with both of these phones and the MID.