[Elegiac]

You might also consider your signal chain, and the quality of your music. A lot of metal is a bit poorly-produced, with harsh treble. I have certain headphones I use for that music; they're not the best headphones, but they're at the same level as the music, so it works. And I tweak the chain, to make the music that reaches the headphones smoothed and simplified.

Also, at some point, you may find that you simply have to adjust to more treble. That can take about a month. Most 'audiophile' headphones have more treble than consumer headphones. I see a few people who don't seem to understand the nature of the game, and flit from headphone to headphone to headphone, trying to find something that will always play nice, with everything.

 

[Ginryuu]

Sounds like you need a darker sounding headphone with smooth upper frequencies. If you need a closed back with excellent tonality and strong dynamics, my 1st recommendation would be the Denon ah-d7200. Completely non fatiguing with above average resolution, and very musical.

Well... If you consider the Denon AH-D7200 as low budget then we have totally different opinions on what low budget means I guess.
The AH-D5200 was already suggested to me a few times and I would gladly take them if they wouldn't cost 599€ in my country.
There are some hifi markets which offer them for 399€ but I'm not sure if this is somehow scam or not because that's a big price difference to Denon's own price list.

Since you're from Germany. Look into the Ultrasone Signature line... if you want a closed-back headphone for metal. I can't help with IEMs though, others probably can.

Thanks for the suggestion but in another thread here in this forum someone mentioned that treble sensitive people should stay away from them so if it comes to harsh treble opinions I fully trust people who experienced this with a variety of headphones.

@Elegiac I'm not sure if I fully understand what you've written but I am not a sadistic person.
I won't go through this "ice pickle in the ear" feeling just to "adjust" or make my ears a bit less sensitive against that painful feeling.
Plus I don't really see how that should work. My previous audio-technica headphones had sibilance in YouTube videos and I used them for roughly 12 years and this sibilance never got better over the years to my ears.

 

[Mhog55]

Well... If you consider the Denon AH-D7200 as low budget then we have totally different opinions on what low budget means I guess.
The AH-D5200 was already suggested to me a few times and I would gladly take them if they wouldn't cost 599€ in my country.
There are some hifi markets which offer them for 399€ but I'm not sure if this is somehow scam or not because that's a big price difference to Denon's own price list.



Thanks for the suggestion but in another thread here in this forum someone mentioned that treble sensitive people should stay away from them so if it comes to harsh treble opinions I fully trust people who experienced this with a variety of headphones.

@Elegiac I'm not sure if I fully understand what you've written but I am not a sadistic person.
I won't go through this "ice pickle in the ear" feeling just to "adjust" or make my ears a bit less sensitive against that painful feeling.
Plus I don't really see how that should work. My previous audio-technica headphones had sibilance in YouTube videos and I used them for roughly 12 years and this sibilance never got better over the years to my ears.

You would need to find a used pair that someone is willing to ship from the head fi classifieds. What is your idea of low budget?

 

[Mhog55]

You might also consider your signal chain, and the quality of your music. A lot of metal is a bit poorly-produced, with harsh treble. I have certain headphones I use for that music; they're not the best headphones, but they're at the same level as the music, so it works. And I tweak the chain, to make the music that reaches the headphones smoothed and simplified.

Also, at some point, you may find that you simply have to adjust to more treble. That can take about a month. Most 'audiophile' headphones have more treble than consumer headphones. I see a few people who don't seem to understand the nature of the game, and flit from headphone to headphone to headphone, trying to find something that will always play nice, with everything.

Play nice with everything headphones do exist, but they won't necessarily be ideal for every genre/recording. Without being able to listen to every headphone under the sun, it becomes a game of buy and try. And then when you find one, you can't help but wonder if something even better is out there unless you can become content.

 

[Elegiac]

@Elegiac I'm not sure if I fully understand what you've written but I am not a sadistic person.
I won't go through this "ice pickle in the ear" feeling just to "adjust" or make my ears a bit less sensitive against that painful feeling.
Plus I don't really see how that should work. My previous audio-technica headphones had sibilance in YouTube videos and I used them for roughly 12 years and this sibilance never got better over the years to my ears.

Mmm. Just trying a holistic approach.

Play nice with everything headphones do exist, but they won't necessarily be ideal for every genre/recording. Without being able to listen to every headphone under the sun, it becomes a game of buy and try. And then when you find one, you can't help but wonder if something even better is out there unless you can become content.

My Athena's and my k240 mkII's are good all-rounders. I would suggest either of them, but they probably have stronger treble than a Meze 99 Classic.

I know there are better things out there, but experience has shown me the limits of my music. I 'become content' once I've got what I want out of an audio chain. You make it sound distasteful hahaha... an impossible chore for thinking beings, but a proper pursuit for grazing animals, this 'becoming content'

 

[SomeGuyDude]

There's no such thing as a headphone that's gonna make every single album in every genre sound its best. It's just not possible.

The trick is to find one that covers a nice cross section within your tastes where it doesn't lean too far in one direction or another. For me, if about the same number of albums sound overly harsh as sound overly bassy (to my ears) then I know that the vast majority of what I listen to is gonna sound great.

I often say unless there's some issue that's niggling at you, there's no reason to play a game of what ifs. That'll just leave you frustrated. Wanting "this but better" almost never goes right.

 

[Ginryuu]

You would need to find a used pair that someone is willing to ship from the head fi classifieds. What is your idea of low budget?

Initially I didn't wanted to spend more than 300€.
But for now I have to scratch this plan either way because I am planning to get a new PC first.
It has very outdated hardware (almost 15 years old) so it's the most important thing for now.
I still wanted to ask generally to get an idea what might be possible in that price range for the future.

On ebay classifieds there was an offer a few days ago for the Denon AH-D5200 for 195€.
Only downside was that the leather from the headband began to dissolve.
But I wasn't fast enough to get them.

Another person is trying to sell them for 295€ since a few weeks.
I talked to the seller but he only wants to sell them via transfer.
When I asked for buyer protection from PayPal or directly from ebay classifieds he rejected it and said that people will delay the payment which is why he isn't offering buying protection. That sounded like a scammer to me so I haven't bought these either.


Edit: Today there was another offer on ebay classifieds for 105€ lol.
I don't know if someone bought it for that price, if the seller began to realize that they are worth way more and deleted the offer or if it got reported as scam.

There's no such thing as a headphone that's gonna make every single album in every genre sound its best. It's just not possible.

The trick is to find one that covers a nice cross section within your tastes where it doesn't lean too far in one direction or another. For me, if about the same number of albums sound overly harsh as sound overly bassy (to my ears) then I know that the vast majority of what I listen to is gonna sound great.

I often say unless there's some issue that's niggling at you, there's no reason to play a game of what ifs. That'll just leave you frustrated. Wanting "this but better" almost never goes right.

I think the Sennheiser HD 600 is doing what you are describing here.
It does every genre "okay-ish" but they focus more on vocals and accoustic guitars.
To me they sounded boring because they are so flat and neutral. Also they lack in sub-bass.

People are saying that the HD 650 is better for Metal but when I tried them they sounded veiled and dark to my ears.
It wasn't really fun listening to my music with those.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

I think the Sennheiser HD 600 is doing what you are describing here.
It does every genre "okay-ish" but they focus more on vocals and accoustic guitars.
To me they sounded boring because they are so flat and neutral. Also they lack in sub-bass.

People are saying that the HD 650 is better for Metal but when I tried them they sounded veiled and dark to my ears.
It wasn't really fun listening to my music with those.

This always baffles me a bit.

I owned the 650 and 600 side by side and the difference between them is so minuscule it basically comes down to a slight bass elevation on the 650. The idea that they have these vastly different characteristics just makes no sense to me.

That said, I did absolutely prefer the 650 because of the extra warmth, as the 600 wasn't quite impactful enough. Of course, I haven't used mine in ages now, preferring either the Grado Hemp for straight-up fun listening or the Audeze LCD-2 Classic when I wanna bring the big boys out.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

BTW if y'all don't like bassy/warm headphones the Heavys are NOT for you lol

Me, I'm happy as hell with them, but they feel like they're very much from the same bloodline as the Momentum rather than the HD series. I'd call them a competitor to something like the V-Moda Crossfades more than anything (which I also had and enjoyed).

 

[Mhog55]

Any sen

BTW if y'all don't like bassy/warm headphones the Heavys are NOT for you lol

Me, I'm happy as hell with them, but they feel like they're very much from the same bloodline as the Momentum rather than the HD series. I'd call them a competitor to something like the V-Moda Crossfades more than anything (which I also had and enjoyed).

Any sense of resolution? Just another consumer tuned set of cans?

 

[SomeGuyDude]

Any sense of resolution? Just another consumer tuned set of cans?

Resolution is good, to my ears. I mean coming from the Audezes and Grados it's gonna be a step down in a few directions but the multi-driver setup helps a lot. Once the app comes out for some EQ'ing I think there's a lot for people to enjoy here and I'd probably say they're the best sub-$500 wireless purchase that I've heard. Definitely better than the aforementioned Momentums, Sony, V-Moda, Bose offerings.

Plenty of quibbles but they're mostly in the physical design like the weird control system and fiddly buttons, and despite the bassy presentation it's more speaker-like than just a bassy headphone (again, the multi-driver setup). If you're looking for a mid-forward product that's putting the guitars up front with polite bass then out of the box these won't do it, but for someone like me who likes the rhythm section to get emphasis I can say that these are a winner as is.

Doing an A/B with the LCD-2 Classic which is about as unfair of a fight as I have with my equipment tells me the Heavys require a moment of kinda brain-calibration. Audeze headphones are known for warmth (admittedly "for a planar," definitely not compared to DD closed-backs), and the immediate feeling is that the Heavys lack any definition or clarity, like the whole thing is completely softened and almost more "distant" by comparison. Just for funsies I'm using a playlist with more power/thrash/heavy metal since the production there will be clearer than my usual and make it easier to pick apart. Going from the Audeze to the Heavys is a moment of "eugh this is all messy." So that's bad, right?

The thing is, once I give myself some time to adjust to what the Heavys are doing, all the details are there, just the drivers give them the ability to breathe while having a thick bass section. Slayer's Raining Blood for example has screaming guitars and Tom Araya's vocals cut through like a knife. So when I go back to the Audeze everything suddenly feels overly sharp and lacking in "oomph" and I'm turning the volume up to get that "standing at a concert up close to the amps" feeling.

I'm gonna give these a lot more time but one headphone I'm reminded of is the much-maligned Audioquest Nighthawk, only with a lot more space thanks to the driver setup. I think for anyone who likes to crank the volume and bang their head these are a no-brainer of a purchase. They're not replacing my other cans but they have that dumb fun feel that will absolutely always have a place in a lineup. Also right now since I have air conditioning blasting I need something closed back lmao.

Absolutely zero regrets with the purchase, my main thing is to say that these need a moment to come to grips with what their design philosophy is as well as their price point and then just listen and listen and they get fun as hell. I'm listening to Dio, Sabaton, Maiden, and Judas Priest right now and damn these all make me want to get up and party haha

 

[Mhog55]

Resolution is good, to my ears. I mean coming from the Audezes and Grados it's gonna be a step down in a few directions but the multi-driver setup helps a lot. Once the app comes out for some EQ'ing I think there's a lot for people to enjoy here and I'd probably say they're the best sub-$500 wireless purchase that I've heard. Definitely better than the aforementioned Momentums, Sony, V-Moda, Bose offerings.

Plenty of quibbles but they're mostly in the physical design like the weird control system and fiddly buttons, and despite the bassy presentation it's more speaker-like than just a bassy headphone (again, the multi-driver setup). If you're looking for a mid-forward product that's putting the guitars up front with polite bass then out of the box these won't do it, but for someone like me who likes the rhythm section to get emphasis I can say that these are a winner as is.

Doing an A/B with the LCD-2 Classic which is about as unfair of a fight as I have with my equipment tells me the Heavys require a moment of kinda brain-calibration. Audeze headphones are known for warmth (admittedly "for a planar," definitely not compared to DD closed-backs), and the immediate feeling is that the Heavys lack any definition or clarity, like the whole thing is completely softened and almost more "distant" by comparison. Just for funsies I'm using a playlist with more power/thrash/heavy metal since the production there will be clearer than my usual and make it easier to pick apart. Going from the Audeze to the Heavys is a moment of "eugh this is all messy." So that's bad, right?

The thing is, once I give myself some time to adjust to what the Heavys are doing, all the details are there, just the drivers give them the ability to breathe while having a thick bass section. Slayer's Raining Blood for example has screaming guitars and Tom Araya's vocals cut through like a knife. So when I go back to the Audeze everything suddenly feels overly sharp and lacking in "oomph" and I'm turning the volume up to get that "standing at a concert up close to the amps" feeling.

I'm gonna give these a lot more time but one headphone I'm reminded of is the much-maligned Audioquest Nighthawk, only with a lot more space thanks to the driver setup. I think for anyone who likes to crank the volume and bang their head these are a no-brainer of a purchase. They're not replacing my other cans but they have that dumb fun feel that will absolutely always have a place in a lineup. Also right now since I have air conditioning blasting I need something closed back lmao.

Absolutely zero regrets with the purchase, my main thing is to say that these need a moment to come to grips with what their design philosophy is as well as their price point and then just listen and listen and they get fun as hell. I'm listening to Dio, Sabaton, Maiden, and Judas Priest right now and damn these all make me want to get up and party haha

Rock on

 

[Graham55]

I would like to reconsider my previous post.

I would like to choose a pair of headphones, but don't know if any of the ones with bio-cellulose drivers has any good soundstage if they are closed. I'm looking at the Denon D5200 and as a compromise, the Nighthawk. I would not like to have any overly brutal headphones, I heard the HE6 is very edgy and energetic, the LCD 2 as well. I am wondering whether the Denon D7200, DT 1990 or the E-MU Teak might be too harsh maybe. Don't know anything about Fostex headphones...what is the difference between them? Speaking of closed-backs, and I would like to ask how they perform in metal (and generally, in terms of bass) while also considering their big cup size if they have acceptable soundstage: LCD 2 Closed, Sundara Closed (selected only for value, I guess), DT 1770, Meze 99.

Also, while I'm at it, how good are the Argons, metal-wise and in bass? I heard them bundled with S tier stuff, that's why I'm asking.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

I would like to reconsider my previous post.

I would like to choose a pair of headphones, but don't know if any of the ones with bio-cellulose drivers has any good soundstage if they are closed. I'm looking at the Denon D5200 and as a compromise, the Nighthawk. I would not like to have any overly brutal headphones, I heard the HE6 is very edgy and energetic, the LCD 2 as well. I am wondering whether the Denon D7200, DT 1990 or the E-MU Teak might be too harsh maybe. Don't know anything about Fostex headphones...what is the difference between them? Speaking of closed-backs, and I would like to ask how they perform in metal (and generally, in terms of bass) while also considering their big cup size if they have acceptable soundstage: LCD 2 Closed, Sundara Closed (selected only for value, I guess), DT 1770, Meze 99.

Also, while I'm at it, how good are the Argons, metal-wise and in bass? I heard them bundled with S tier stuff, that's why I'm asking.

If you can get a pair of Nighthawk and don't think that bass = bad, grab them and be happy. The NH is "mostly closed" with a small grill opening that functions to eliminate wave interference and just sounds awesome IMO. I miss mine.

 

[monkey4054]

I would like to reconsider my previous post.

I would like to choose a pair of headphones, but don't know if any of the ones with bio-cellulose drivers has any good soundstage if they are closed.

The D7200 and E-MU Teaks are the best options you mentioned.

If you're worried about treble then absolutely forget the Beyerdynamics.