[Windsor]

Hi there, 
 
I want an awesome pair of headphones that tell the truth of what's on a recording with an amp that enables them to reveal the source sound clearly.
 
Currently in the process of upgrading my Mac-based home listening system, my Macbook Pro and iPod are my audio sources. I recently bought a FiiO E7 which greatly cleaned up and enhanced the sound quality of the above devices, especially the laptop, I've been using the above in conjunction with quality audio files either Apple in-ear headphones or Sennheiser HD-25-I's.
 
As an experienced drummer/musician, I know how great instruments can sound live (acoustic + amped) and in the studio (as heard through monitors such as Genelecs). I recently A/B'd Sennheiser's HD600 and HD800 and for me there was no comparison. The 800's were vastly clearer than the HD600s in every respect; it was like being being in a high quality studio control room with the artists performing. 
 
Musically, I listen to many different styles and these days am mostly listening to classic jazz-rock-fusion albums (Herbie Hancock, Miles Davis, Weather Report), live band recordings, well-recorded/produced studio pop/rock albums (Steely Dan/Donald Fagen etc.), electronica (Techno, IDM, Drum and Bass), spoken word/meditation/hypnosis audio programmes, and occasionally some classical, so an all-round system would probably do the trick.
 
I've actually ordered a pair of Sennheiser HD650's which have been delayed in the mail, and whilst waiting, I've realised that it probably makes more sense for me to have what I really want, the best I can have whilst being happy with what I do have. I've been reading up on headphones and have been considering HD800s, Audeze LCD-2's, and Beyer TI's along with my FiiO E7 (and possibly an E9). 
 
Before I buy, it would be great to try; does anyone here who lives in or near Surrey, England have any of the above headphones or know of anywhere I could A/B/C them? Would the FiiO E7 (or E9) do the above headphones justice? Does anyone have any other suggestions that I may have missed?
 
Also, my ears are quite sensitive and susceptible to ringing if I listen to loud sources for too long, so with my headphones, I will most likely be playing them quietly. Do the above cans sing clearly at low volumes?
 
Thanks for reading this. I'm grateful to be part of this community.
 
 
Windsor

 

[Windsor]

Would my query get more responses in another area of these forums?

 

[B0b]

I'm sorry no other more experienced members have replied yet.
 
Unfortunately, an ocean separates us but, to answer one of your questions: the HD800 is known to perform extremely well at low volumes - and yes it does.

From what I've understood, these headphones are all fantastic and the difference is simply a matter of personal preference / coloration. The HD800 would be, from my readings, the most neutral one.

It also has some other benefits. For instance, it is (obviously) much lighter than the LCD-2. This may seem unimportant, but I'd be curious to see someone trying to write while wearing them / who leans his head: they'd certainly fall of his head.

I believe the HD800 also has the wider soundstage - and yes it is wide! I've, however, never really felt the "out of the head" listening experience you're suppose to have (due to drivers' angle).

Note that, if I recall correctly, I've read that the HD800 doesn't perform quite as good with pop music than with classical music: which is where it really excels. Some even claim it's pretty poor with pop due to HD800's "lack" (notice the quotes) of bass.
 
It'd be very hazardous to find people near you having these headphones. You're best bet would be to visit a local hi-fi store. Otherwise, if you're happy with what you've heard with the HD800, why not choose these!

 

[swbf2cheater]

The HD800 is a neutral experience, it is immensely clear and natural sounding but is not so good for rocking out in my opinion
 
the T1 is an all around set that plays almost everything just great, it is not as clear sounding as the HD800
 
the LCDs Ive never heard so i cannot speak for them
 
but you need a giga expensive amp for all of them Im afraid, you must understand that if you use a not so clear cheap amp on the most expensive headphones around that are insanely clear...the amp will totally ruin the quality.  The fiio isnt going to cut it if you are looking for clarity.  It would be like putting a junker engine inside a porche and expecting good things out of it.

 

[Uncle Erik]

My experience with the T1 and LCD2 are limited, so no comment.

However, the HD-800 has been my primary headphone for around 18 months. I still love them. The "new toy" phase wears off around nine months, so I'm fairly certain this is a long-term relationship.

If you've already listened to and enjoy the HD-800, it might be a good choice. Like you, I found them superior to the HD-600 and HD-650, so I sold those and put that money towards a HD-800. No regrets, either.

I do find the HD-800 excellent at low volumes. They have very little distortion, so it is easy to turn them up too loud. I did at first and had some fatigue. These days, I keep them pretty low and thoroughly enjoy them.

You should give a listen to the LCD2 and T1, though. Both are very good headphones (from my limited experience) and you might like the sound signature of one of them better.

 

[Frank I]

I believe you need to hear all of them to make the best call for you and your music. I own the LCD2 and the T1 and have head the HD800 all good headphones. I chose the T1 and LCD2 because IMO and for the music I listen to the most mostly jazz and classical and vocals those two phones gave me more of the sound I like. The HD800 fell just slightly behind the T1 for bass extension. I preferred the t1 bass more so than the HD800. For vocals no contest the LCD2 is the best can I have heard and it also has the best bass of the three. You may end up liking the HD800 more and that is why it is important to try and find some headfi members where you can hear them.

 

[Windsor]

Thanks for the replies.
 
Earlier tonight I briefly A/B/C/D'd (through my Mac/E7 with CDs) my Apple in-ears and HD25-I's with some HD600s and HD800's. 
 
To me the HD600's are nice, quality cans with a soothing warmth to them, and I loved the natural detail and image/soundstage of the HD800's, which made listening to 'So What' from Miles Davis' 'Kind of Blue' a real pleasure. It is also obvious that the HD800 are quite natural sounding and beautifully sensitive headphones but to me they sounded a little trebly; they seemed to lack the 'oomph' and visceral impact of live jazz/rock/fusion recordings, which my Apple in-ears and HD-25's provide well. Maybe my ears are more attuned to bassier headphones or just need a rest.
 
I'd like my ideal headphone to provide a visceral impact (conducive to the wellbeing of my ears), perhaps bassier than the HD800's whilst being optimally sensitive. Re-calibrating my ears, or adjusting the bass setting on the E7 could be the answer if I opt for the HD800's.  I'd definitely like to try some of the other headphones I listed above before making further purchases, and am looking forward to trying my 650's if they arrive.
 
I hope your weekend is going well.

 

[Windsor]

Since my last post, I purchased a FiiO E9 amp - which works wonders in tandem with the E7 DAC - and received a pair of Sennheiser HD 650 headphones. The FiiO E9, which today fared really well with an amp five times the price, has further cleaned up my system sound, and the HD 650 headphones are lush but boomy in the bass which is one of the only things about them that reminds me I'm wearing headphones. 
 
Beyer T1's
 
Today I tried some T1's, and really liked what I heard.
 
Beyerdynamic’s T1’s are high-quality headphones and have a sound signature that is slightly bright. They presented every recording I played through them with much clarity and a level of separation unparalleled any headphone I’ve yet heard, and their treble-centric sound really made certain recordings come to life. For example, on Led Zeppelin's Kashmir, the T1's clearly imaged the phase effect on John Bonham’s drums, voiced the graininess of Robert Plant’s vocals, and recreated the rasps of the trumpets amidst the booming orchestra. These elements contributed to making the track sound magical. 
 
However, on some recordings, such as John Coltrane's Resolution, the T1's were just a little too hot. After listening to T1's for a while, my ears felt fatigued. If I was to opt for a pair of T1's, the solution may be to EQ them slightly to compensate for their bright treble.
 
The T1’s, bass was crystal clear, especially in busy musical passages, and I found it otherwise a little light, which resulted in a listening experience that felt quite clinical and left me feeling detached from the music. 
 
Sennheiser HD 600
 
I recently read a post saying that Gary Katz (engineer for Steely Dan etc.) and other audiophile audio engineers opted for HD 600 as their headphones of choice and I also have been trying the HD 600 headphones and have been enjoying them. They're not as detailed as the T1's, and have a lesser soundstage than the HD 650, but overall balance is great and they remove the 650s boominess. I initially thought the HD 650 were a little boxy, but when I heard them earlier today I just heard the music. I likened the sound of HD 600s to listening to a pair of high-quality monitor speakers, but with a silk (or maybe cotton) sheet between the speakers and my ears.
 
I prefer the HD 600 to the HD 650, and will probably buy a pair, but I'm definitely gonna try the HD 800 again first. 

 

[Duckman]

With the right amp, the LCD2 is simply awesome. As a drummer, I'm sure you would appreciate its stunning articulation of drum sounds. I've never heard better.
 
On the other hand, the T1 and the 800 are certainly 'airier' and larger in soundstage.

 

[Windsor]

     Quote:

With the right amp, the LCD2 is simply awesome. As a drummer, I'm sure you would appreciate its stunning articulation of drum sounds. I've never heard better.
 
On the other hand, the T1 and the 800 are certainly 'airier' and larger in soundstage.

Hey - timely post
 
I was just this moment thinking of posting on some drummer forums to ask what drummers/musicians have found to be the best audiophile-quality headphones for hearing a great-sounding drum set. I've mainly been looking for a neutral-sounding pair of headphones, but most of them have sounded treble-centric, except the HD 600. I've heard the LCD-2 are more visceral, and as you say, awesome. I'd love to try a pair, but I don't yet know anyone near me who has a pair I can try. 
 
Thanks for the info.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Quote:

The HD800 is a neutral experience, it is immensely clear and natural sounding but is not so good for rocking out in my opinion
 
the T1 is an all around set that plays almost everything just great, it is not as clear sounding as the HD800
 
the LCDs Ive never heard so i cannot speak for them
 
but you need a giga expensive amp for all of them Im afraid, you must understand that if you use a not so clear cheap amp on the most expensive headphones around that are insanely clear...the amp will totally ruin the quality.  The fiio isnt going to cut it if you are looking for clarity.  It would be like putting a junker engine inside a porche and expecting good things out of it.

I am going out on a limb here and saying you have never heard the FiiO e7/e9 combo.  Anyways, don't let people on head-fi blind you with hype-fi.  I would love for some double blind tests to be done with the e9 vs. other much more expensive solid state amps.  I would then know if people would find it worth paying hundreds more for a name after having heard the e9 side by side. 
 
I can understand if you said that the e9 wouldn't have good synergy with some of those headphones because it wouldn't color the sound.  To say that the e9 would simply not power a $1000+ headphone, and not have any clarity with said headphone is just wrong.  Misleading posts like this are the major problem I see on head-fi. 
 
Anyways have you heard the e9 I'm very curious now? 
 

 

[Windsor]

I'm an experienced musician who has experienced what 'good' (to my ears) music sound like, live and in the studio, and I'm in the process of upgrading my laptop-based listening system and want to have the best listening experience possible for me at this time. I'm also quite new to most things 'head-fi.'
 
Headphone/amp/component testing
 
Earlier today, when trying Beyer T1's for the first time and in comparison with HD 600s with HD 650s, I used my laptop, 320 kbps MP3s, and FiiO E7/E9 combo. Prior to my visit to the headphone store, the shop assistant set up an expensive, high-quality amp which sold for £700 (I can't recall the brand) that he thought really worked well with the T1. I'm sure it was a tube amp.
 
Basically, we used the T1's and some classical music (Sarah Chang playing - The Four Seasons @ 320 kpbs) to A / B the FiiO E7/E9 amp combo and the more expensive tube amp. Both amps were set to the same relative volume and the same musical passage was played for the amp comparison. There was definitely a noticeable difference.
 
The essential sound quality was of both amps was very similar. The clarity was the same (both the FiiO and tube amp were very clear) and to my ears the most expensive amp was simply more powerful. It enhanced the T1's PRaT and made the bass and treble more visceral. The violin solo stood out more, making it seem more 'forward,' and the music was seemed livelier. I felt it more with the higher quality amp. 

 
I liken the difference in sound between the amps in the above test to be very similar to the sound differences I experienced a few nights back when I connected the stock Sennheiser HD 650 cable to my HD25-I's and compared the resulting sound to that of the HD25-Is with their stock cable. The essential characteristic of the HD25-I was the same with both cables, but the HD 650 cable, which seems higher quality, seemed to make the sound bigger and more powerful, and gave the HD25-I's more PRaT.
 
High-end audio upgrades
 
From what I've yet heard, the differences in high-end audio upgrades can be quite subtle and cost a lot of money. Yes, there is a noticeable difference, and the quality of sound you get to hear a quality recording can be increased, but for a price.
 
Do a '1000$+' pair of headphones need an expensive amp to sound clear?
No, based on what I heard today with the T1's.
 
Will a higher/quality amp increase the tone quality/clarity of a '1000$+' pair of headphones'?
Yes. But a low-quality source performance will still create a low-quality sound even on the highest-quality equipment, even if, paradoxically, it's a high-quality rendition of a low-quality sound.
 
Is worth getting an expensive amp with a ' $1000+' pair of headphones?
Probably, yes. But only if the listener deems the quality increase worth what they can afford, are willing to spend, or can have...
 
Details and vibe
 
Hearing the tiniest details in recordings can be a beautiful thing, and as is hearing the big picture. I love to hear detail and I love to step back and hear the overall sound and vibe of something, too. Where I draw the line is where becoming obsessed with equipment gets in the way of enjoying music; I'm up for 'head-fi' if it facilitates an increased enjoyment of music.
 
Detail is important, and so is vibe, and different people like to hear a different balance of both of those elements in their experience of music. We probably all know people that enjoy a low-fi music system that gives a low-fi quality but gives them access to the vibe they want through their music. And of course, being on head-fi, we know that there are people who are (much) more particular about the quality of their musical equipment.
 
Enjoying the process
 
In upgrading my system, I've been listening to audio recordings and head-fi equipment in much more detail than I normally do, and I'm having a fun time doing so. I've enjoyed (and am enjoying) connecting with people in the world of head-fi, and I'm enjoying and appreciating recorded music much more. But I'd like to enjoy simply hearing music more.
 
To me it's important to really enjoy the process of listening to and experiencing music, and on a broader perspective enjoy life. I'm all for the optimum quality experience and maximal enjoyment of being alive, and I'm all for optimal quality head-fi equipment and maximal enjoyment of music. 

OK, enough words. I'm grateful for what I have now, and I'm off to listen to some music. 

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Tubes vs solid state is kinda apples and oranges.  I would like to know what a budget tube amp sounded like compared to the expensive tube amp you listened to.  

 

[V-DiV]

Hi Windsor,
 
The most cost-effective upgrade you can make with your current setup is to use lossless music files rather than 320 kbps compressed files.  With my mid-fi (?) setup, I can hear the difference between these high quality compressed files vs native AIFF or lossless files (ALAC, FLAC).  I can also hear the difference between the standard, full-resolution, CD quality (14 bit, 44.1 kHz) digital files and high resolution, 24 bit files (e.g., 24 bit, 96 kHz).  At least with my AKG 701s, there is a little more air and articulation and a little less harshness when moving up the file resolution ladder.  Perhaps it won't make as great a difference with the warmer HD 600 & 650 than with the AKGs, but it definitely will with the better-resolved HD 800 & T1 (neither of which I've heard, but am quite interested in).