[Perfectionist]

So if we are assuming that my amp isn't driving them properly, and that as Joe says the fault cannot be with the headphones, I need a dedicated amp that will 'alter' the sound that goes into the phones from my CDP.

It also appears that if my amp is in fact giving me an accurate sound, which is not altered greatly when I spend more money on a dedicated amp, I must want an inaccurate sound, and so must be very dumb ?

Any amp ideas to try ?

 

[Mumrik]

Quote:

Originally posted by Perfectionist I am also still unsure of any points here, ignoring transients etc for a moment, my amp is driving the phones with ease obviously, they are to loud at 9oClock, that means the amp isn't even trying....please clarify

So it's all about volume? you don't care about sound quality?
My receiver can drive my speakers to very high volume, that doesn't mean that better receivers/amps wouldn't offer me an improvement in listening pleasure...



Quote:

Originally posted by Perfectionist I understand that an amp will give me better quality, just a little miffed at people constantly presuming that everyone NEEDS an amp when to be honest I have powered my HD580's from a walkman, not great quality but plenty loud enough. I sound like a real "HyperBass" customer here, quality IS more important than quantity yes, all I am trying to itterate is that to get the 580's to sing (a little at least) you DO NOT need a dedicated amp

I guess it depends on your definition of NEEDS... I don't "#)% care if it can play loud if the sound quality isn't great - I'd need an amp.
You are saying that you don't need an amp cause even though it sounds like ****, you can already play music loud... That's not singing, it's screaming...


I know you wrote that you became a convert, but the above posts just really ticked me off...

Sorry

 

[morphsci]

You should do a search to check out the exact threads. However, both the Musical Fidelity X-Cans, V.2 and the MG Head DT/OTL seem to pair up very nicely with the Senn 580/600's. Since they are also both tube amps you can do a little tube rolling to tweak the sound to your liking.

I have only heard the 600 MG Head combo but I will most likely be buying an XCans in the next month or so, so I'll find out for myself. Good luck in your quest.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Lots and lots of amps to look at

Depends on what price point you're looking at

And portable or not? :>

 

[Perfectionist]

Yes Mumrik, addressing old news there buddy, if you know I am a convert what have you proved by ranting, raving and swearing, apart from your ignorance that people can change their opinions ? You actually QUOTED me saying that I made a mistake, AND that I understood what I must sound like to people (i.e - a dumb consumer after noise) so whats the problem ?

Sound quality is everything to me, I just like to understand why I need certain items, sorry to have to write this, but I just wanted to clafify a few points with you

Cheers, Rick

 

[r3cc0s]

Dude just try one
and you'll notice a big difference


Musical fiedlity is a british company
i'm sure you can try an xcan 2 out anywhere or even a creek obo

just try it and then tell us what you think
then we can continue to argue

 

[bearwise]

And there is always the cost issues and that nasty little cost benefit thing. The 580's are among the best phones available (tho not to everyones tastes) and the quality out of yoru current amp with those phones may be fine for you. My guess that there is an amp out there that will improve the coming from those phones, maybe even dramatically. But I can't tell you if that amp is a $200 used Xcans, or a nearly $2000 Headroom Max or a $3500 EarYashino, or if the price you'd have to pay is anywhere near what you'd be willing to pay. Since I've started with this hobby, I've dropped over $6k on headphones, amps, DAC's, transports, interconnects, etc. and now have a headphone sound system that will regularly raise the hair on the back of my neck its so good and gorgeous, but the sound quality was ALMOST (99.9%) as good after spending only $1000 on an amp and some good phones, and the output of my NAD amp is really pretty good too. Just depends on what you're willing to spend for what pleases you.

 

[MacDEF]

As to the original question, let me ask a different question of you: why did you buy a Marantz amp? Why didn't you buy a $50 or $100 Fisher or Yorx amp that had the same feature set. After all, if the Fisher has the same amount of power, and can drive your speakers just as loud, there's no reason to spend more, right?

Or why buy a $5000 high-end amp that has an output of 50W when you can buy a 50W Pioneer amp for under $100?


Quote:

Originally posted by Perfectionist I understand that an amp will give me better quality, just a little miffed at people constantly presuming that everyone NEEDS an amp when to be honest I have powered my HD580's from a walkman, not great quality but plenty loud enough. I sound like a real "HyperBass" customer here, quality IS more important than quantity yes, all I am trying to itterate is that to get the 580's to sing (a little at least) you DO NOT need a dedicated amp

I used to believe that, too... until I got a headphone amp

Now I'm at the other extreme -- you haven't heard the HD580 sing until you've plugged them into a Max

Anyways, reading down, I see that now you want an amp

The best "first step" for the 580 would probably be one of the following, all in the sub-$300 range:

Musical Fidelity X-CANv2 (tube/solid state hybrid)
MG Head (tube)
Creek OBH1SE (solid state)
HeadRoom Little (solid state)

Personally, for bass and treble I prefer the solid state units, while the tube units really give you great midrange.

Out of those, I would probably buy a Little, mainly because of upgradeability. The Little can gradually be upgraded if you so desire, up to a point equal with HeadRoom's Maxed Out Home. I also prefer crossfeed with my HD600s, and the Little is the only one that has it.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Quote:

Originally posted by Perfectionist If I NEED one so much why does the standard headphone output in my integrated Marantz amp become TO loud before I reach the 9oClock position on the volume knob ?

Just to specifically answer this question, which I think no-one has, is that the reason it sounds louder is probably because it is overworking and therefore compressing and/or distorting. A good amp won't have to work so hard to make it not sound so loud at the same volume.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Just one more example of what a dedicated amp can do:

I tried playing a 20Hz test tone (burnt on CD) through the integrated amp and my Porta Corda. (20Hz is the lowest bass you can ever hear) While the integrated amp goes plenty loud on normal music, it would do nothing but distort on the 20Hz tone. Not so the Porta Corda

I can crank it almost all the way up and I hear nothing but bone-jarring 20Hz bass

And this, coming from a $160 dedicated amp

Although it's always possible that my integrated amp is just cheap

But I think we can leave the arguments behind and you can start auditioning some headphone amps

 

[chadbang]

Find a dealer that will let you take home an amp and audition it. Pick an amp that costs what you would be willing to pay for a change in sound ranging from insignifigant to appreciable, then take it home and A/B it against your headphone jack. If you think $200-$2,000 dollars brings you a sonic improvement you'd be willing to pay that much for - keep the amp. I now second NicK Dangerous' credo "A/B or bust". You may find a lower price headphone amp ($160-$300) brings you little or no improvement at all.

 

[taoster]

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Bloggs I tried playing a 20Hz test tone (burnt on CD) through the integrated amp and my Porta Corda. (20Hz is the lowest bass you can ever hear)

hey I wouldn't mind doing that test for a A/B comparison too.. how do I go about producing highs and lows for burning?

 

[kelly]

Out of my portable Panasonic 320, the HD600s clip.
Out of my Sony S7000 DVD, the HD600s sound weak.
Out of my Sony DA80ES receiver, the HD600s clip.
Out of my Pioneer Elite CLD-99 LD player, the HD600s clip.

I guess I'm a bit jealous of Marantz owners--I know the headphone jack is better but it must be nice to have something that at least pretends to drive the Sennheisers. It's amazing they even sell these things without an amp. I just keep telling myself they needed to be "burned in" at a low volume anyway.

I'll be glad when an amp arrives, though.

Kelly

 

[Spad]

This thread is being beaten to death and, since the duck has become a swan, so to speak, a moot point. But just for the record, and as most here likely know, the amount of twist required of a volume control in order to play loud in no way indicates the available power reserve of an amp. Volume controls are rarely linear, particularly in mid-fi equipment. In many cases a quarter turn of the control results in three-quarters or more output. The uninitiated often think they are using only a small fraction of their available power when in reality the amp is struggling.

When listening to music over speakers, the average power out is typically five to ten watts, so why would anyone need a 500 watt amplifier? The reason, of course, is dynamic headroom. A sudden crescendo can easily demand an instaneous power out of 700 watts or more. If it's not available, the amp will clip and the sound will be distorted.

Obviously, a 20 watt amp will handle the average listening level adequately and may even sound perfectly acceptable much of the time. But as the sound swells, the music will sound compressed and dull.

This isn't the entire reason an audiophile needs an amp, but any more and I run the risk of giving pedantry a bad name.

The next question will probably be something like, "I like the 580s, why do I need the Etys?" Not to worry--we're all goin' to tell ya.

Spad

 

[chadbang]

In Kelly's case, he has an absolute valid reason to buy a headphone amp - he needs more power to drive his phones. In that way, the purchase of my Headroom Total Airhead was an absolutely brillant buy. I wanted to listen to my Senn HD600s out of my Sony R900 minidisc on the road, and the R900 could not drive the Senns beyond a dribble. With the Total Airhead, although not the perfect amp for the 600s (but pretty darn nice!), I got exactly what I needed: more power, which made the TA a very practical buy.